Will this void my warranty? (collection of merged threads on this topic)

[Mike@DS]

Arrrrgh!!

Guys, please dont turn htis into another Corvette Forum thread!!

This topic has been beaten to death!

We have been doing this for YEARS now!!!

Search. Research. Look again. It is NOT a real issue. People are not getting warrantys voided left and right, not even the Vette guys, who are convinced there is a global conspiracy to void their warranties!!!

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

Arrrrgh!!

Guys, please dont turn htis into another Corvette Forum thread!!

This topic has been beaten to death!

We have been doing this for YEARS now!!!

Search. Research. Look again. It is NOT a real issue. People are not getting warrantys voided left and right, not even the Vette guys, who are convinced there is a global conspiracy to void their warranties!!!

I'm a "vette guy" and I don't think there is a global conspiracy. I am just intelligent enough to realize that warranties have limitations and IF a company says they CAN void your warranty for a tune (let's not drag out the dead horse of "invisibility") then you know what? They CAN void a warranty.

I've seen it done over a tune and bolt ons...FIRST HAND as I was the tech who got caught in the middle of a whiney-ass kid who wouldn't man up and get mom and dad to pay for his blown motor. These lovely people did everything short of accusing me of blowing their motor (if they had accused me of any wrong doing...it wouldn't have been pretty) and thought that if they went up the food chain from the dealer they could bully their way into warranty paying for their problem. Needless to say (as I've said it before...but I will again)...the warranty on the powertrain was branded as void per GM and the dealer ended up eating the motor and my time just to keep a good customer.

I've asked again and again...IF you have a customer that has their warranty voided only on the basis of having one of your tunes...what backup do YOU the tuner provide YOUR customer? Will you cover the repair, provide an attorney...or are you one of the tuners that will simply offer to give the customer's tune charge back to them as this is all your "guarantee" covers?

I've yet to have a tuner say they take responsibility for repairs or help out with legal fees if a customer is warranty denied. It's the same with every other aftermarket manufacturer...they all just tell the customer to shout Magnuson-Moss at the top of their lungs and they'll be fine.

I modify my cars, but I also go into the modification process with the realization that a modification that I undertake is voiding the warranty on the item I'm modifying. If I tune, I don't count on the manufacturer warranty anymore because I have violated the terms of said warranty. If I put on metallic window tint and it messes with the window antenna, I don't expect GM to pay to remove and replace my tint. I'm tired of people that want the world and don't want to pay.

[FLYNNZL1]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

I'm a "vette guy" and I don't think there is a global conspiracy. I am just intelligent enough to realize that warranties have limitations and IF a company says they CAN void your warranty for a tune (let's not drag out the dead horse of "invisibility") then you know what? They CAN void a warranty.

I've seen it done over a tune and bolt ons...FIRST HAND as I was the tech who got caught in the middle of a whiney-ass kid who wouldn't man up and get mom and dad to pay for his blown motor. These lovely people did everything short of accusing me of blowing their motor (if they had accused me of any wrong doing...it wouldn't have been pretty) and thought that if they went up the food chain from the dealer they could bully their way into warranty paying for their problem. Needless to say (as I've said it before...but I will again)...the warranty on the powertrain was branded as void per GM and the dealer ended up eating the motor and my time just to keep a good customer.

I've asked again and again...IF you have a customer that has their warranty voided only on the basis of having one of your tunes...what backup do YOU the tuner provide YOUR customer? Will you cover the repair, provide an attorney...or are you one of the tuners that will simply offer to give the customer's tune charge back to them as this is all your "guarantee" covers?

I've yet to have a tuner say they take responsibility for repairs or help out with legal fees if a customer is warranty denied. It's the same with every other aftermarket manufacturer...they all just tell the customer to shout Magnuson-Moss at the top of their lungs and they'll be fine.

I modify my cars, but I also go into the modification process with the realization that a modification that I undertake is voiding the warranty on the item I'm modifying. If I tune, I don't count on the manufacturer warranty anymore because I have violated the terms of said warranty. If I put on metallic window tint and it messes with the window antenna, I don't expect GM to pay to remove and replace my tint. I'm tired of people that want the world and don't want to pay.

I think we can all agree to what you said, but I think your missing the real point. If you put a tune on your car and a problem comes up that can not be connected or is caused by that tune, what is wrong with getting it taken care of under the warranty. Also in all farness, what about the "secret" warranties the dealers and manufactures do not tell the public unless the customer does his home work. What I am talking about was covered on ABC news recently when cars fall off the normal warranty, manufactures will still repair defective parts in some situations, this is to avoid mass recalls, and save money.

Just my 2 cents. If your tune your car and break it because of it, then pay for it, but the dealer so follow the same way of thinking, if its not caused by the tune.

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

I think we can all agree to what you said, but I think your missing the real point. If you put a tune on your car and a problem comes up that can not be connected or is caused by that tune, what is wrong with getting it taken care of under the warranty. Also in all farness, what about the "secret" warranties the dealers and manufactures do not tell the public unless the customer does his home work. What I am talking about was covered on ABC news recently when cars fall of the normal warranty, manufactures will still repair defective parts in some situations, this is to avoid mass recalls, and save money.

Just my 2 cents. If your tune your car and break it because of it, then pay for it, but the dealer so follow the same way of thinking, if its not caused by the tune.

If a manufacturer bulletin specifically states that a tune voids the powertrain warranty, what is the question here? That's the part of this dead horse I don't understand. It seems pretty simple to me. It's much like a person saying I'd love for my wife to not enforce that prenup when she catches me cheating...

I think it would be great if the tuners and bolt-on manufacturers would just simply put a disclaimer about potential risks such as warranty voids on their products. It would make things so much simpler...then it becomes obvious that you the buyer are assuming an additional responsibility in purchasing the product. It let's the aftermarket people act in a totally ethical manner and gives the customer notice of their risks versus finding out the hard way.

I agree that a part that isn't damaged by a tune should be covered under warranty...but who is responsible to prove that? Under Magnuson-Moss, the coverage is for OEM-quality replacement parts...that means things like I bought a mobil one filter versus an ac delco...good enough, your engine is covered. The readings I've seen on Magnuson-Moss seem to support that this is the only coverage truly extended by the legislation.

I love the guarantee that someone like Callaway gives. They come right out and say that your factory powertrain is toast, but then turn around and give you coverage from them. They can do this though, because they have the history and numbers that allow an actuary to determine how much cost to build into products to cover the warranty claims that will result.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

If a manufacturer bulletin specifically states that a tune voids the powertrain warranty, what is the question here? That's the part of this dead horse I don't understand. It seems pretty simple to me. It's much like a person saying I'd love for my wife to not enforce that prenup when she catches me cheating...

I think it would be great if the tuners and bolt-on manufacturers would just simply put a disclaimer about potential risks such as warranty voids on their products. It would make things so much simpler...then it becomes obvious that you the buyer are assuming an additional responsibility in purchasing the product. It let's the aftermarket people act in a totally ethical manner and gives the customer notice of their risks versus finding out the hard way.

I agree that a part that isn't damaged by a tune should be covered under warranty...but who is responsible to prove that? Under Magnuson-Moss, the coverage is for OEM-quality replacement parts...that means things like I bought a mobil one filter versus an ac delco...good enough, your engine is covered. The readings I've seen on Magnuson-Moss seem to support that this is the only coverage truly extended by the legislation.

I love the guarantee that someone like Callaway gives. They come right out and say that your factory powertrain is toast, but then turn around and give you coverage from them. They can do this though, because they have the history and numbers that allow an actuary to determine how much cost to build into products to cover the warranty claims that will result.

The reasons most aftermarket professionals won't come out and say that their parts may void all or part of any OEM warranty come down to a couple major points. The first is that their business, like any other, is dependent on sales. Some aftermarket manufacturers rely entirely on a few well-engineered products. If their customers are too scared to buy for fear of a warranty violation, then they go out of business. The second reason is that they cannot speak for OEM companies. GM may void a warranty for a reason that Subaru may not. Each company has different reasons for voiding warranties, and they even make exceptions for certain products if they had a hand in their production. This goes back to the first reason that they might not explicitly point out that any given aftermarket part may void a warranty. The part may not void a GM warranty, but a claim because it voids a Nissan warranty that the part voids any warranty may not be accurate, scaring away potential customers.

We can't demonize product vendors for making the best stuff out there and telling us so. If we want our cars to last, then we have to do our own research, finding out whether these products will void the warranties on our own cars. They do enough work by bringing us the parts. Do we really want to inflate the price of parts by asking every single vendor to have a lawyer on hand to answer warranty questions regarding every single manufacturer?

[SGOS252382]

I've been chatting with another Camaro5 member that lives in my area and he told me that a local Chevy dealership (The dealership where I purchased my Camaro - to stay nameless at this time) is sending Camaro's and Vettes (at the owners requests) to a local tuner to be tuned.
I know the local tuner and I've had work done at their shop. How this affects their warranty, I'm not completely sure. But this is all being done through the dealership and I'm sure the dealership is standing behind these mods.
This is very interesting to know. I've also been told the dealership is a also Procharger dealer.

So it seems some dealership are willing to work with customers.

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

The reasons most aftermarket professionals won't come out and say that their parts may void all or part of any OEM warranty come down to a couple major points. The first is that their business, like any other, is dependent on sales. Some aftermarket manufacturers rely entirely on a few well-engineered products. If their customers are too scared to buy for fear of a warranty violation, then they go out of business. The second reason is that they cannot speak for OEM companies. GM may void a warranty for a reason that Subaru may not. Each company has different reasons for voiding warranties, and they even make exceptions for certain products if they had a hand in their production. This goes back to the first reason that they might not explicitly point out that any given aftermarket part may void a warranty. The part may not void a GM warranty, but a claim because it voids a Nissan warranty that the part voids any warranty may not be accurate, scaring away potential customers.

We can't demonize product vendors for making the best stuff out there and telling us so. If we want our cars to last, then we have to do our own research, finding out whether these products will void the warranties on our own cars. They do enough work by bringing us the parts. Do we really want to inflate the price of parts by asking every single vendor to have a lawyer on hand to answer warranty questions regarding every single manufacturer?

That is why they put in the word MAY as it tells the consumer to wake up and call their service provider BEFORE they spend money on something that can void a warranty.

I honestly don't understand why tuners and aftermarket suppliers get a pass on this one...People are quick to "demonize" the shysters selling fuel line magnets and electric superchargers...they don't cause any harm either....

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

Arrrrgh!!

Guys, please dont turn htis into another Corvette Forum thread!!

This topic has been beaten to death!

We have been doing this for YEARS now!!!

Search. Research. Look again. It is NOT a real issue. People are not getting warrantys voided left and right, not even the Vette guys, who are convinced there is a global conspiracy to void their warranties!!!

At least you guys are honest (see below)...so why be concerned if the "vette guys" are convinced there is a conspiracy? I have to give you credit for putting the "may be voided" verbage in your documentation. Now if we could just get the public to read those things...we might not ever have to have this conversation again. The tuner says your warranty may be voided and they don't owe you anything other than a refund and GM says your warranty can be voided for tuning and they wouldn't owe you anything related to powertrain...so I guess the question is answered. Anyone that tunes their vehicle should expect to have their powertrain warranty voided and if they sneak by...they are lucky versus expecting the exact opposite.

Disclaimer

THIS END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (the “Agreement”) is an agreement between you, as the purchaser (the “Purchaser”) of either the Diablo Module (the “Module”) or the hand-held computer unit (the “Unit”), and as the manufacturer of the Product DiabloSport (“DiabloSport”). The Product and the Unit shall be referred to collectively herein as the “product” and DiabloSport Inc. shall be referred to herein as “DiabloSport”.


1. Acknowledgment And Acceptance Of Agreement. If you do not agree to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, do not use the Product. Instead, promptly contact the distributor from which you purchased the Product in writing, requesting a refund of the purchase price. Any use of the Product by you will constitute your agreement to the terms and conditions contained herein.
2. Grant Of License. The parties hereto acknowledge that DiabloSport is granting a non-transferable restricted license to Purchaser to use the Product for the sole purpose of installation in Purchaser’s vehicle. DiabloSport shall retain all title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Product. Purchaser agrees that Purchaser shall not, directly or indirectly, modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works based on the Product. Purchaser further agrees not to permit any third parties to modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works based on the Product.
3. Disclaimer. The Product is being sold with no warranties of any kind, express or implied. The Product is not endorsed by the manufacturer of your vehicle and there is no affiliation between DiabloSport and the manufacturer of your vehicle. Installation of the Product in your vehicle or use of the Product with your vehicle may limit or void your rights under any warranty provided by the manufacturer of your vehicle, and DiabloSport assumes no responsibility in such event. Any warranty not provided herein, and any remedy which, but for this provision, might arise by implication or operation of law, is hereby excluded and disclaimed. The implied warranties of merchantability and of fitness for any particular purpose herein are expressly disclaimed.
4. No Liability For Damages, Injuries Or Incidental, Special Or Con-sequential Damages. Under no circumstances shall DiabloSport, or any other party related to DiabloSport, be liable to Purchaser or any other person for any damage to Purchaser’s vehicle, loss of use of Purchaser’s vehicle, or for personal injuries suffered by any person, or for any incidental, special or consequential damages, whether arising out of negligence, breach of warranty, breach of contract, or otherwise. DiabloSport’s liability for any damages, loss and/or claims associated with the Product shall be limited to the price of the Product paid by purchaser. Purchaser hereby releases DiabloSport from all liability, claims and damages associated with the Products, with the sole exception of DiabloSport’s liability for the refund of the purchase price of the Product to Purchaser in the event that a court of competent jurisdiction determines the Purchaser suffered damages directly resulting from the malfunction of the Product. 5.Warranty. Notwithstanding the provisions of the End User License Agreement, DiabloSport warrants the Product to be free from all defects in material and workmanship for 2 years from the date of original purchase. This limited warranty applies only to the original Purchaser of the Product. This limited warranty does not cover damage caused by modification, alteration, repair or service of the Product by anyone other than DiabloSport, physical abuse, misuse, use in a manner contrary to the instructions, which accompany the Product, or any damage caused by acts of God. Contacting your Distributor or Dealer may make claims for repair service or replacement of the Product pursuant to this limited warranty. The Chip will either be repaired or replaced, at the option of DiabloSport, at no cost to Purchaser, if the defective Product is covered by this limited warranty. DiabloSport’s liability pursuant to this limited warranty and for any damages, loss and/or claims associated with the Product shall be limited to the price of the Product paid by Purchaser, or, at DiabloSport’s option, repair or replacement of the Product.


a. DiabloSport offers a 30 day satisfaction guarantee on all products.

b. DiabloSport products carry a 2 year warranty against defects in materials or workmanship.


i. DiabloSports liability under this warranty shall be limited to the correction or replacement of any defective part or product in question which DiabloSport determines to be necessary.
ii. Warranty freight charges are the responsibility of the dealer distributor and/or customer.
iii. This warranty is to the original purchaser and is non transferable.
-This warranty is void unless proof of purchase is submitted. Product must be purchased at an DiabloSport Authorized Dealer in order to qualify for warranty.
-Removal of serial numbers and/or alteration of product or packaging will also void all warranties.

c. DiabloSport shall not be held responsible for direct or indirect failures due to our product.
d. DiabloSport shall not credit or repair any units that are not properly restored to the original backup upon time of return or may be VIN locked.


i. VIN locked units, or improperly restored units, will be returned to customer.
ii. It is the customers responsibility to check any and all DiabloSport product to make sure the original backups have been restored to vehicles before the product shall be returned.

e. Technical Support


i. DiabloSport customers should maintain adequate knowledge of the DiabloSport product line to be able to properly sell, and to service the needs of their customers.
ii. DiabloSport will provide technical assistance and advice directly to the dealer/distributor to enable them to answer and field technical questions.
iii. It is the responsibility of the dealer distributor to handle their own technical issues with customers, and not to direct them to DiabloSport.


f. Product updates


i. DiabloSport shall inform all customers of the latest product as soon as they are available. DiabloSport will inform customers on our website at www.diablosport.com.
ii. DiabloSport cannot be held accountable for any or all damages caused by using outdated product.
iii. Products that need updates will be handled in the following fashion:

1. DiabloSport will charge a labor and handling fee for products that are internet updateable or remotely updateable.
2. DiabloSport will not charge a fee for products that are not internet updateable or remotely updateable. Shipping charges may apply.

iv. All products returned for update purposes must have a corresponding DiabloSport RMA number for processing.

g. Returns and RMA/RGA policies and procedures

i. DiabloSport will not warranty, credit, or exchange any product returned without a valid RMA number.

1. All RMA numbers are issued by DiabloSport RMA department.
2. Defective units shall be repaired and returned in like kind. All units that must be re-furbished to like new condition are subject to labor and parts charges to be determined by DiabloSport.

ii. Customers are subject to a 20% restocking fee for all product returned for credit.
iii. All units on RMA MUST have conditions for which they were returned clearly labeled on the box, or given to a DiabloSport RMA representative at the time the RMA is issued.


6. State Law. Some states do not allow limitations of implied warranties, or the exclusion or limitation of incidental, special or consequential damages, so the above limitations may not apply to you. In such states, liability shall be limited to the greatest extent permitted by applicable law.

7. Governing Law & Venue. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Florida, and venue for any legal proceeding or action at law arising out of or construing this Agreement shall lie in the state or federal courts of Orange County, Florida, and the parties specifically waive any other venue.

DISCLAIMER Not legal for sale or use on any pollution controlled motor vehicles. Legal in California only for racing vehicles which may never be used upon a highway.


All DiabloSport products have a satisfaction guarantee. If in the first 30 days from date of purchase you are not satisfied with the results the Predator generates in your vehicle, simply restore the factory tune to your vehicle and return the Predator to the selling dealer. Pending examination of the tool by DiabloSport, you will receive a refund from your selling dealer. Under no circumstances will DiabloSport accept the return of a Predator unit that does not have a performance tune remaining in it.

[GaryTucker]

And then there is this....

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f70/g...y-help-116920/

[Mike@DS]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

And then there is this....

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f70/g...y-help-116920/

Again, thats NOT a DiabloSport product, thus it has no bearing on my argument...GM can see things, just not with a Predator or Trinity./

[steeleshark2]

LOL, he didn't revert back to the stock tune!!! Of course he got caught!!

[kelley@vectormotorsports]

Originally Posted by steeleshark2

LOL, he didn't revert back to stock!!! Of course he got caught!!

Correct. Those cars have a long standing issue with oil consumption. GM absolutely knows this.

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

Again, thats NOT a DiabloSport product, thus it has no bearing on my argument...GM can see things, just not with a Predator or Trinity./

Then put your invisibilty guarantee in writing with more of a guarantee than "golly gee we'll give you your money back." I'm just saying....

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports

Correct. Those cars have a long standing issue with oil consumption. GM absolutely knows this.

That's not the point here. Tuners keep saying "show me one case where warranty was voided due to a tune..." Well here one is. Who cares if it has the super-duper invisibility cloak with no guarantee or the guy was either forgetful or honest when he took his car in-the warranty WAS voided due to a tune.