rumored 2013 ZL1 changes

[S-eatin-grin]

Another big difference between GM and Ford is Mr. Shelby. GT-500's are essentially tuner cars with a warranty that you buy from Ford with a specific package designed by Shelby. GM doesn't have a designated "famous tuner" resource to modify their factory engines for a set production cost.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by f ê r

Few things I can't understand:

1) Why Grn. Motors didn't put forged internals in a FI engine?
2) Why they put such a small displacement TVS on it? 1.9L??

Put a smaller pulley on it and soon you will have a screaming for help SC and a scary to go WOT engine.

Expense, noise, emissions, etc. The rods in LS9 are titanium as well as the valves (I think it's only the intake, though...). Forged pistons rattle a little more and their expansion rates aren't great for emissions. It would've definately been nice though...

That little 1.9 is hardly breathing at 9 psi on LSA to get 580 horse'. LS9 is only pushing 10.5 to develop 638 (different cams, too though). I think that we could see a dealer upgrade or even a factory switch to the 2300 to get another 20-40 horse', but the power doesn't fall of on LSA. It is increasing to redline, and too big a blower is not efficient for a motor that can't use it. I like the idea of a 2300, but it will always come down to money. Because... then you have to have injectors that can flow, clutch, transmission, driveline, rear end, and the rest of the ancillaries that can take the power. I've seen reports of the rear being either 9.5 or 9.9-inches, and sounds like it takes all the power without a problem.

We'll see. I definately hope GM will respond though, and think they will.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by S-eatin-grin

My impression of the whole development of the ZL-1 is that GM wanted a quick Camaro answer to the existing GT-500. They knew the LSA made 550 hp so it was an existing engine in the GM line up that fit the bill. The suspension was already out there with the Caddy and ZR-1. Other than styling features and wheels/tires all they had to do was put it all together and tweak things. The car was practically built on paper without too much cost for new technology. As others have posted in the past..they wern't going to give it an LS-9. There is no supercharged production LS-7 currently running on a Zeta platform. It just would have been too much cost to go with anything other than the LSA...is was a realistic choice from a money and existing data standpoint for a Zeta platform car. I'd love to see a forged-internals supercharged LS-7 for the ZL-1 but I don't think it will happen especially not in the next year.

While I don't disagree with everything, you don't mention that GM tool the MR to the next generation, or that CTS-V and the 'Vettes don't have the next gen' EPS. ZL1 has been in development since beforeZeta II was decided to be CAMARO's chassis.

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by S-eatin-grin

Another big difference between GM and Ford is Mr. Shelby. GT-500's are essentially tuner cars with a warranty that you buy from Ford with a specific package designed by Shelby. GM doesn't have a designated "famous tuner" resource to modify their factory engines for a set production cost.

Other than his name,Caroll Shelby has nothing to do with the GT500. It's 100% a Ford SVT product.

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by toilets

So? I wouldnt care about that. What im saying is, If the vert is already been announced with 580 then you wont see any changes in HP to the coupe in 2013. Thats like saying the 2013 GS vette coupe has 450 but the 2013 GS vette vert has 430.

Keep in mind, im comparing exact model to exact model. not z06 coupe to GS vert or SS vert to LT coupe.

and please keep in mind this is my opinion only. GM could very well do anything but I just dont see it unless its a bolt on track package.

GM is going to do what they think is necessary to sell cars. That includes keeping a sharp eye on the competition. I hate to bring up the "F" word (Ford), but the latest issue of Car & Driver got a 11.7 qtr mile and a 0-60 of 3.7 in the '13 GT500. If GM has something in their pocket to make the '13 ZL1 a bit faster,they're not going to sit on it for a year & lose potential sales just to pacify those of us that bought a 2012 ZL1.

Of course, diehard GM fans are going to buy the ZL1 regardless,just as the Ford guys are going to buy the GT500. I'm referring to people that aren't loyal to either mfg and will be swayed by performance numbers alone.

Just my opinion

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by Wondering

GM is going to do what they think is necessary to sell cars. That includes keeping a sharp eye on the competition. I hate to bring up the "F" word (Ford), but the latest issue of Car & Driver got a 11.7 qtr mile and a 0-60 of 3.7 in the '13 GT500. If GM has something in their pocket to make the '13 ZL1 a bit faster,they're not going to sit on it for a year & lose potential sales just to pacify those of us that bought a 2012 ZL1.

Of course, diehard GM fans are going to buy the ZL1 regardless,just as the Ford guys are going to buy the GT500. I'm referring to people that aren't loyal to either mfg and will be swayed by performance numbers alone.

Just my opinion

Car & Driver also had the base price estimated at $5k more than the ZL1 base , and we know how they under estimated the base of the Z ...

[69NMYSS]

Originally Posted by Wondering

GM is going to do what they think is necessary to sell cars. That includes keeping a sharp eye on the competition. I hate to bring up the "F" word (Ford), but the latest issue of Car & Driver got a 11.7 qtr mile and a 0-60 of 3.7 in the '13 GT500. If GM has something in their pocket to make the '13 ZL1 a bit faster,they're not going to sit on it for a year & lose potential sales just to pacify those of us that bought a 2012 ZL1.

Of course, diehard GM fans are going to buy the ZL1 regardless,just as the Ford guys are going to buy the GT500. I'm referring to people that aren't loyal to either mfg and will be swayed by performance numbers alone.

Just my opinion

WRONG. please dont post estimates, facts ONLY. Car and Driver did NOT get to test drive the vehicle, they only got a ride along and they ESTIMATED the 0-60 and 1/4 times.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by S-eatin-grin

My impression of the whole development of the ZL-1 is that GM wanted a quick Camaro answer to the existing GT-500. They knew the LSA made 550 hp so it was an existing engine in the GM line up that fit the bill. The suspension was already out there with the Caddy and ZR-1. Other than styling features and wheels/tires all they had to do was put it all together and tweak things. The car was practically built on paper without too much cost for new technology. As others have posted in the past..they wern't going to give it an LS-9. There is no supercharged production LS-7 currently running on a Zeta platform. It just would have been too much cost to go with anything other than the LSA...is was a realistic choice from a money and existing data standpoint for a Zeta platform car. I'd love to see a forged-internals supercharged LS-7 for the ZL-1 but I don't think it will happen especially not in the next year.

The mule that was the basis for the ZL1 was built in 2008.

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

no it wasnt. they said it was going to have AT LEAST 550hp. Final number came out at 580hp. The vert ZL1 advertising says 580hp.

And the 2010 Camaro had 304 HP, just like they said, right?

As has been the case for about 1000 years now (ok, maybe not that long-- make that ever since the Chevy engine in an Olds debacle), GM put a disclaimer on all their materials essentially saying they reserve the right to add, delete, or change models, options, colors, specifications, etc. on all their vehicles at any time.

Do I expect slight differences in 2013? Yes. If you're not improving, you're going backwards. For example, mid 2010 run brought us backup sensors and droppage of the GM performance logo and GM chicklets and ABM color. 2011 brought us HUD and the 'vert and RS taillights for all and some colors were then extra cost colors. 2012 brought a slightly redesigned interior and a MUCH wanted power passenger seat. There's more depending on model, but that's just examples.

What will those changes be? I dunno. Have to wait and see. So a bump in HP may or may not happen.

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

Car & Driver also had the base price estimated at $5k more than the ZL1 base , and we know how they under estimated the base of the Z ...

Autoblog estimated MSRP for the '13 GT500 to be just under $65,000. But can't we just enjoy the '12 ZL1 before worrying about the '13?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by SS 376

Autoblog estimated MSRP for the '13 GT500 to be just under $65,000. But can't we just enjoy the '12 ZL1 before worrying about the '13?

Apparently not...

HOWEVER, I can see that we would like GM to know we don't want to take this laying down, but I can guarantee they already know. Al O's come out many times to show his confidence, so that's clear they have their peepers open. I still believe we haven't seen the end of development, but to what extent they'll go is something yet determined.

[S-eatin-grin]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The mule that was the basis for the ZL1 was built in 2008.

Right...when did Ford release the GT 500? I wasn't saying GM came up with the ZL1 in 2010 and slapped it together...I was just saying they had advanced or upgraded powertrain and suspension elements from other platforms already in the system and at the time 556 hp seemed like more than enough of an answer to the GT 500

[2ndCamaro79]

Originally Posted by S-eatin-grin

Right...when did Ford release the GT 500? I wasn't saying GM came up with the ZL1 in 2010 and slapped it together...I was just saying they had advanced or upgraded powertrain and suspension elements from other platforms already in the system and at the time 556 hp seemed like more than enough of an answer to the GT 500

I agree, I don't think Chevy thought Ford would get this crazy with the Shelby. Ford is super pissed at us for stealing the sales crown.

[S-eatin-grin]

Yeah...I think GM has done a good keeping us Camaro hungry by feeding us one bite at a time...SS in 09/10, Vert in 2011, ZL1 in 2012....what's next (dare I say Z 28)??