Drove a Challenger RT and a SRT8 today - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

blackZbandit · 01-21-2009, 12:39 AM

The Challenger will fail.

The volume sellers for these types of cars are the V6's and the Challenger SE is a waste of time as long as it's hauling around 2 tons... as far as everything I read it's no fun to drive. Why buy an SE when you can get a V6 Mustang for cheaper? Albeit the Stang has less power but it's FAR lighter and likey more fun to drive. And then there's the slightly more expensive Camaro V6 which is lighter and pushing far more power and handles better. On the other side of the spectrum you have the SRT8; 42k for 425 HP. Not bad, but once you consider you can get a GT500 for the same price or a lighter but similarly powered loaded 2SS for 6 grand less the Challenger only makes sense to Mopar enthusiasts and people who DEMAND a sports coupe with a functional backseat (?).

The Challenger is the overall value looser in Muscle Wars 2.0.

RIP

kevin2323 · 01-21-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackZbandit

The Challenger will fail.

The volume sellers for these types of cars are the V6's and the Challenger SE is a waste of time as long as it's hauling around 2 tons... as far as everything I read it's no fun to drive. Why buy an SE when you can get a V6 Mustang for cheaper? Albeit the Stang has less power but it's FAR lighter and likey more fun to drive. And then there's the slightly more expensive Camaro V6 which is lighter and pushing far more power and handles better. On the other side of the spectrum you have the SRT8; 42k for 425 HP. Not bad, but once you consider you can get a GT500 for the same price or a lighter but similarly powered loaded 2SS for 6 grand less the Challenger only makes sense to Mopar enthusiasts and people who DEMAND a sports coupe with a functional backseat (?).

The Challenger is the overall value looser in Muscle Wars 2.0.

RIP

lol you make me giggle ...

the challenger is a low volume product to begin with.....it is being produced at less than 30k units per year....so it doesnt need to fly off the lots...most people who buy the v6 is for the looks because the power blows (which will change in 2010)
you forgot about the rt which is 30k and has 390 hp and 400lb of tq which is plenty for many...o and it comes with a 6 speed if you wish. srt8 will change in 2010 to compete with the gt500 and also distance itself from its 35hpless brother...

it's far from fail.....so see you next year

Gary B · 01-21-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro_corvette

WOW, they must have lesser standards in California. Unless I show proof that i am dead serious about buying a corvette, or I get to the age of 25. I am not gonna drive one anytime soon. Dealers out here do not take this lightly.

Whos in CA? I'm in CT. No, the average guy doesn't just go drive one...as I said.."know" your dealer well.

*radz28* · 01-21-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin2323

lol you make me giggle ...

the challenger is a low volume product to begin with.....it is being produced at less than 30k units per year....so it doesnt need to fly off the lots...most people who buy the v6 is for the looks because the power blows (which will change in 2010)
you forgot about the rt which is 30k and has 390 hp and 400lb of tq which is plenty for many...o and it comes with a 6 speed if you wish. srt8 will change in 2010 to compete with the gt500 and also distance itself from its 35hpless brother...

it's far from fail.....so see you next year

I think that the performance of Camaro will be better, but the Challenger will be close with the V8 models. I wouldn't be so quick to write those cars off. It's not that much heavier and the power numbers are similar. With the addition of the locking rear end and the manual gearboxes, it's going to be a good fight, I think.

As far as the Mustang, I think it has one foot stuck in the last decade with the rear end, but in a straight line, it'll put a hurtin' on the top models from GM and Chrysler (as far as comparing a GT500).

MrKrisSullivan · 01-21-2009, 10:00 AM

Ummm... Dodge said themselves that the 5.7 Hemi was there targetted "Volume" seller... So your way off...

blackZbandit · 01-21-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin2323

lol you make me giggle ...

the challenger is a low volume product to begin with.....it is being produced at less than 30k units per year....so it doesnt need to fly off the lots...most people who buy the v6 is for the looks because the power blows (which will change in 2010)
you forgot about the rt which is 30k and has 390 hp and 400lb of tq which is plenty for many...o and it comes with a 6 speed if you wish. srt8 will change in 2010 to compete with the gt500 and also distance itself from its 35hpless brother...

it's far from fail.....so see you next year

No... I'll do the giggling at the Mopar guy who trolls a Camaro board. In a better economic environment I wouldn't write off the Challenger so easily but on the value barometer it is the clear looser... let me examine this more clearly:

V6:
Challenger SE: 250hp... mid range power, tons of bulk you can feel
Mustang: 215hp... underpowered, but tons of heritage, widely popular
Camaro: 300hp... most expensive, but not by much. clear value winner

Winner: Camaro V6
Looser: Challenger SE

Mid-range V8:
Challenger RT: 375HP... mid range in power again, tons of bulk again
Mustang GT: 315... vastly underpowered, again, but still has heritage, popularity, and a great price tag
Camaro SS: 426hp... Although our top of the line, slots here due to price. once again CLEAR value winner.

Winner: Camaro SS
Looser: Challenger RT

Top Dog V8:
Mustang GT500: 540HP... top in terms of power, but also a tank
CHALLENGER SRT8: 425HP... tons of power but a complete FAIL vs more power @ same price from GT500 and same power from fully loaded 2SS at 5 grand less.

In these economics times Chrysler has lees room for low volume sellers, especially when they are selling and will take a complete bath when the Camaro is out in full force and the Mustang gets the mythical Coyote engine (we'll need to be watching our backs if/when that drops too). The Challenger in and of itself is a great car, I like it sans cookie cutter interior... I don't even mind the weight because the V8's have enough oomph to move it. But at it's various price points when comparing it to the competition it comes out as the Hugger-Orange-haired stepchild.

As I stated previously... if you're not a Mopar guy, and you NEED a sports coupe with useable back seats (what demographic is this?) and you give a rats ass about performance WHY WOULD JOE SCHMOE BUY A CHALLENGER INSTEAD OF A CAMARO OR MUSTANG?!?

Maybe saying it will fail was too harsh... it has maybe 3-5 years left if that. But... it is a FAIL.

rmyers · 01-21-2009, 01:24 PM

It has been my experience that dealers don't allow test drives on Corvettes because most Corvette purchasers don't want a car will mileage on it. But I am sure it varies by dealer and your relationship with them.

headpunter · 01-21-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmyers

It has been my experience that dealers don't allow test drives on Corvettes because most Corvette purchasers don't want a car will mileage on it. But I am sure it varies by dealer and your relationship with them.

not so, most dealers are just jerks.

MrKrisSullivan · 01-21-2009, 03:53 PM

If the 'vette is used you have a decent chance of getting a test drive... a couple summers ago they let me have one over-nite and brought it back the next day... They thought they had me sold for sure... LOL... not exactly...
Hey BlackZBandit????
What don't you get??? Not everyone buys a car on horsepower... Actually most people seem to buy what they think looks cool... Then some on gas mileage and some on what's new... and so on and so on etc...
Your simple compare and contrast statement only works for the performance aspect... You have to really look at the big picture here...

Alarick · 01-21-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headpunter

not so, most dealers are just jerks.

The dealer I ordered my Camaro with actually insisted that I test drive 2 different Vettes before I optioned out my 2SS.

One was a new 08 Z06 with less than 15 miles on it without a Hurst shifter, and the other was a used 07 in what ever trim has the HUD, with a Hurst shifter.
Now granted they did not let me take the Z06 off the lot, but they where more than willing to let me test drive some Vettes.

RallyFever · 01-21-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarick

The dealer I ordered my Camaro with actually insisted that I test drive 2 different Vettes before I optioned out my 2SS.

One was a new 08 Z06 with less than 15 miles on it without a Hurst shifter, and the other was a used 07 in what ever trim has the HUD, with a Hurst shifter.
Now granted they did not let me take the Z06 off the lot, but they where more than willing to let me test drive some Vettes.

If you didn't take it off the lot, you didn't drive it!
UNLESS - - - Do they have a race track in the back of the dealership?

I have purchased three vettes and test driven dozens more. Most dealers don"t have an issue with a "qualified" buyer driving their vettes>

However, why would any dealer want someone not even capable of purchasing the vette to take it out for a "joy ride"?

RallyFever · 01-21-2009, 06:49 PM

[/B][/B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackZbandit

The Challenger will fail.

The volume sellers for these types of cars are the V6's and the Challenger SE is a waste of time as long as it's hauling around 2 tons... as far as everything I read it's no fun to drive. Why buy an SE when you can get a V6 Mustang for cheaper? Albeit the Stang has less power but it's FAR lighter and likey more fun to drive. And then there's the slightly more expensive Camaro V6 which is lighter and pushing far more power and handles better. On the other side of the spectrum you have the SRT8; 42k for 425 HP. Not bad, but once you consider you can get a GT500 for the same price or a lighter but similarly powered loaded 2SS for 6 grand less the Challenger only makes sense to Mopar enthusiasts and people who DEMAND a sports coupe with a functional backseat (?).

The Challenger is the overall value looser in Muscle Wars 2.0.

RIP

I have looked at three GT500's in the last two weeks and they all topped $50K. Two of them topped $53K.

This is MSRP and does not include any "market adjustment"

What dealership is offering a $10-12K discount?

kevin2323 · 01-21-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackZbandit

No... I'll do the giggling at the Mopar guy who trolls a Camaro board. In a better economic environment I wouldn't write off the Challenger so easily but on the value barometer it is the clear looser... let me examine this more clearly:

V6:
Challenger SE: 250hp... mid range power, tons of bulk you can feel
Mustang: 215hp... underpowered, but tons of heritage, widely popular
Camaro: 300hp... most expensive, but not by much. clear value winner

Winner: Camaro V6
Looser: Challenger SE

Mid-range V8:
Challenger RT: 375HP... mid range in power again, tons of bulk again
Mustang GT: 315... vastly underpowered, again, but still has heritage, popularity, and a great price tag
Camaro SS: 426hp... Although our top of the line, slots here due to price. once again CLEAR value winner.

Winner: Camaro SS
Looser: Challenger RT

Top Dog V8:
Mustang GT500: 540HP... top in terms of power, but also a tank
CHALLENGER SRT8: 425HP... tons of power but a complete FAIL vs more power @ same price from GT500 and same power from fully loaded 2SS at 5 grand less.

In these economics times Chrysler has lees room for low volume sellers, especially when they are selling and will take a complete bath when the Camaro is out in full force and the Mustang gets the mythical Coyote engine (we'll need to be watching our backs if/when that drops too). The Challenger in and of itself is a great car, I like it sans cookie cutter interior... I don't even mind the weight because the V8's have enough oomph to move it. But at it's various price points when comparing it to the competition it comes out as the Hugger-Orange-haired stepchild.

As I stated previously... if you're not a Mopar guy, and you NEED a sports coupe with useable back seats (what demographic is this?) and you give a rats ass about performance WHY WOULD JOE SCHMOE BUY A CHALLENGER INSTEAD OF A CAMARO OR MUSTANG?!?

Maybe saying it will fail was too harsh... it has maybe 3-5 years left if that. But... it is a FAIL.

I wont even resond because I double your post count....nice try on the troll call....you just dont like the challenger plain and simple...but many people love the car.

most people like a car for looks and chevy guys love the maro and mopar guys love the challenger and some both like me.

but to the average guy he will go by looks and that is personal preference...so it is evenly matched if you go by average guy.

MrKrisSullivan · 01-21-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrKrisSullivan

If the 'vette is used you have a decent chance of getting a test drive... a couple summers ago they let me have one over-nite and brought it back the next day... They thought they had me sold for sure... LOL... not exactly...
Hey BlackZBandit????
What don't you get??? Not everyone buys a car on horsepower... Actually most people seem to buy what they think looks cool... Then some on gas mileage and some on what's new... and so on and so on etc...
Your simple compare and contrast statement only works for the performance aspect... You have to really look at the big picture here...

thanks Kevin...

01-21-2009, 12:39 AM	#15
blackZbandit Drives: BLACK ON BLACK 2012 CAMARO SS Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LOS ANGELES, CA Posts: 743 View My Garage	The Challenger will fail. The volume sellers for these types of cars are the V6's and the Challenger SE is a waste of time as long as it's hauling around 2 tons... as far as everything I read it's no fun to drive. Why buy an SE when you can get a V6 Mustang for cheaper? Albeit the Stang has less power but it's FAR lighter and likey more fun to drive. And then there's the slightly more expensive Camaro V6 which is lighter and pushing far more power and handles better. On the other side of the spectrum you have the SRT8; 42k for 425 HP. Not bad, but once you consider you can get a GT500 for the same price or a lighter but similarly powered loaded 2SS for 6 grand less the Challenger only makes sense to Mopar enthusiasts and people who DEMAND a sports coupe with a functional backseat (?). The Challenger is the overall value looser in Muscle Wars 2.0. RIP __________________ BLACK CAR + FLAT BLACK STRIPES + BLACK WHEELS = BLK PW3R!! **Thanks to Silver Streak for the pic I used to make this sig**

01-21-2009, 10:00 AM	#19
MrKrisSullivan New 2 The "DARK-SIDE" Drives: 2003 Ram HEMI 4x4 Slt 20in Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St. Augustine Florida Posts: 89	Ummm... Dodge said themselves that the 5.7 Hemi was there targetted "Volume" seller... So your way off...

01-21-2009, 01:24 PM	#21
rmyers Drives: Both American Made Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 781	It has been my experience that dealers don't allow test drives on Corvettes because most Corvette purchasers don't want a car will mileage on it. But I am sure it varies by dealer and your relationship with them.

01-21-2009, 03:53 PM	#23
MrKrisSullivan New 2 The "DARK-SIDE" Drives: 2003 Ram HEMI 4x4 Slt 20in Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St. Augustine Florida Posts: 89	If the 'vette is used you have a decent chance of getting a test drive... a couple summers ago they let me have one over-nite and brought it back the next day... They thought they had me sold for sure... LOL... not exactly... Hey BlackZBandit???? What don't you get??? Not everyone buys a car on horsepower... Actually most people seem to buy what they think looks cool... Then some on gas mileage and some on what's new... and so on and so on etc... Your simple compare and contrast statement only works for the performance aspect... You have to really look at the big picture here...