[29er]

Originally Posted by Outlander

Outside the Solstice and Fiero I can't remember a Pontiac model that wasn't a small variation on a Chevy (G8 was a Holden).

The name Pontiac invokes images of bolted on plastic, different badges and the same quality stuff as Chevy in a different pattern or illuminated red.

yes i do agree, grand prix, transport minivan,grand am's... lots of plastic there.

[Muscle Car Lover]

Originally Posted by 29er

no pontiac is unfortunatly dead.. and i miss it.
chevy is cheap. and will always be. it's built for the masse.
pontiac was more upscale.

Huh? Pontiac was upscale, and when was this?

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Lover

Huh? Pontiac was upscale, and when was this?

It was one step up from Chevrolet.......
1. Cadillac
2. Buick
3. Oldsmobile
4. Pontiac
5. Chevrolet

[Outlander]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

It was one step up from Chevrolet.......

In what way?

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Outlander

In what way?

That's the way GM positioned them in marketing. Pontiacs usually had fancier styling, some options not available on Chevys and cost a little more than comparable Chevrolets.

[Muscle Car Lover]

Only one experience with Pontiac myself.

2001 Grand Prix Daytona 500 Pace Car. I wanted that car so bad it hurt. I got it was so happy.
-Sun gear in automatic trans blew up, and I mean BLEW UP, 3 months into owning it. Turned out all the sun gears were defective, Pontiac knew it, but could not find a supplier for new ones. 2 months without my car.
-Rotors warped and cracked at 6k miles. Replaced. New set, warped and cracked at ~3k miles. Another set put on.
-Sunroof leakage; every time it rained I had lake Michigan on the passenger side floor well. 10 trips to water doctor, never solved.
-Heater vents looked like they were cut with a utility knife, all jagged around the edges.
-Hood never really aligned with fenders
Look I could go on. Maybe I had a lemon but glad Pontiac has rode off into the sunset.

[Highland Ranger]

I always saw Pontiac and chevy as equivalent. Pontiac a little sportier. Same for olds and Buick. Olds a little sportier. That's why they killed olds and Pontiac. Didn't make sense to have two brands hitting same market segment.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Outlander]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

That's the way GM positioned them in marketing. Pontiacs usually had fancier styling, some options not available on Chevys and cost a little more than comparable Chevrolets.

Since I've been buying cars I can't think of a time where I distinguished Chevrolet from Pontiac, Oldsmobile or Buick. GM started swapping engines between divisions a little before I started buying but I remember neighbors exchanging their Buicks because they had been delivered with a Pontiac or Chevrolet engine without the customer's knowledge.

Badge engineering ruined the company. Just because it was marketed as a step up it didn't make it so.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Outlander

Since I've been buying cars I can't think of a time where I distinguished Chevrolet from Pontiac, Oldsmobile or Buick. GM started swapping engines between divisions a little before I started buying but I remember neighbors exchanging their Buicks because they had been delivered with a Pontiac or Chevrolet engine without the customer's knowledge.

Badge engineering ruined the company. Just because it was marketed as a step up it didn't make it so.

Just as long as I can remember back from the late 50's through the mid 80's that is how normal way an was. Chevrolet was marketed to the entry level buyer, Pontiac was for when you became more sucessful and were ready to move up, then to Oldsmobile then Buick and then Cadillac. You may be too young to remember it but that is what GM intended and actually worked.
It was much later when the lines between divisions got so blurred that there was basically no longer a need for both Oldsmobile and later Pontiac.

[Outlander]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Just as long as I can remember back from the late 50's through the mid 80's that is how normal way an was. Chevrolet was marketed to the entry level buyer, Pontiac was for when you became more sucessful and were ready to move up, then to Oldsmobile then Buick and then Cadillac. You may be too young to remember it but that is what GM intended and actually worked.
It was much later when the lines between divisions got so blurred that there was basically no longer a need for both Oldsmobile and later Pontiac.

I'm not young and know what the marketing strategy was. That doesn't mean it worked or meant anything to consumers that haven't retired by now. GM blurred the lines and permanently damaged brand loyalty in the 70's when they first got caught sourcing engines from other divisions then announced future cars would be built with parts sourced from various divisions to head off further litigation.

An N car was an N car and a J car was a J car. The difference was upholstery and badging.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Outlander

I'm not young and know what the marketing strategy was. That doesn't mean it worked or meant anything to consumers that haven't retired by now. GM blurred the lines and permanently damaged brand loyalty in the 70's when they first got caught sourcing engines from other divisions then announced future cars would be built with parts sourced from various divisions to head off further litigation.

An N car was an N car and a J car was a J car. The difference was upholstery and badging.

There has always been platform sharing between divisions, all manufacturers did it and still do, and the engine sharing thing was GM just started doing what Ford and Chrysler had been doing for decades before them.

[Outlander]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

There has always been platform sharing between divisions, all manufacturers did it and still do, and the engine sharing thing was GM just started doing what Ford and Chrysler had been doing for decades before them.

Oldsmobile sales soared in the 1970s and 1980s (for an all-time high of 1,066,122 in 1985) based on popular designs, positive reviews from critics and the perceived quality and reliability of the Rocket V8 engine, with the Cutlass series becoming North America's top selling car by 1976. By this time, Olds had displaced Pontiac and Plymouth as the #3 best selling brand in the U.S. behind Chevrolet and Ford. In the early 1980s, model-year production topped one million units on several occasions, something only Chevrolet and Ford had achieved. The soaring popularity of Oldsmobile vehicles resulted in a major issue in 1977, as demand exceeded production capacity for the Oldsmobile V8, and as a result Oldsmobile quietly began equipping some full size Delta 88 models and the very popular Cutlass/Cutlass Supreme with the Chevrolet 350 engine instead (each division of GM produced its own 350 V8 engine). Many customers were loyal Oldsmobile buyers who specifically wanted the Rocket V8, and did not discover that their vehicle had the Chevrolet engine until they performed maintenance and discovered that purchased parts did not fit. This led to a class-action lawsuit which became a public relations nightmare for GM. Following this debacle, disclaimers stating that "Oldsmobiles are equipped with engines produced by various GM divisions" were tacked onto advertisements and sales literature; all other GM divisions followed suit. In addition, GM quickly stopped associating engines with particular divisions, and to this day all GM engines are produced by "GM Powertrain" (GMPT) and are called GM "Corporate" engines instead of GM "Division" engines.

[camaro5]

Not gonna happen...

[JoansDriver]

I'd be happy to see Pontiac return as a performance division within GM. Have a very limited line up with the Grand Am, the GTO and Firebird. Otherwise, it's fair to say the Pontiac Div is probably better off where it is.

And anyone who believes Pontiac was "upscale" from Chevrolet is falling for a smoke and mirrors show.