ZL1-LSA-MR+LS7+Pedders Coilovers = Z28?

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

It keeps getting pricier...
Car and Driver says $55K+ for the ZL1. I can hear the whining already. It's gonna make even more sense for a $40K+ HP Camaro. What do ya' think?

+100.

Exactly the point often missed. Start at a $42k 1SS option base for a Z28 and work backwards. If eliminating the ability to add options makes it cheaper, so be it. Then an ultra limited production more hi-po $50k version could fit in the plan (a collectable) ala Laguna Seca. (The Mark Donohue Edition in Sunoco blue and gold only?)

While I like the idea of an LS7 for the Z28, it really does not need it. A 440 hp LS3.5 will do just fine. This is easily achievable with improved breathing. The LS3 already holds its own at the track at 425 hp with some suspension mods. If they could squeeze in some forged internals and an upgraded valve train for the Z28 LS3.5 then then that would be the icing for those who want more. It would also serve to make the Z28 more "special".

The Z28 (as we are imagining it) is only for those who are serious about all around performance. So our Z28 has a very limited audience. But this audience does appreciate the hard core details and realized small improvements. To me putting the Z28 into a horsepower race with the ZL1 or any other car does not make sense.

But I still wonder if there will ever be a true Z28 at all. The marketing types at Chevy cannot help but notice the Bosses now starting to languish on the lots. They also might notice the number of posts in this forum versus the ZL1 post count.

[JusticePete]

You make some very good points. Allow me to comment on the last first.

Many of the ZL1 threads were Z28 threads before the announcement. People flock to the ZL1 thread for news on an actual production vehicle. Additionally, the ZL1 is going to be a seriously bad axx automobile.

Ford is very good at special editions that are not all that special. The BOSS suspension is a yawn and is most of the car. IMO Ford doesn't sell special editions. They sell motor options. Ford does a lot of things right. The converse is also true.

In a Camaro vs Mustang thread there is a current Mustang owner that will probably buy a Camaro. One of the biggest reasons for that is the 11 or 12 Mustang is so much like his current 06 Mustang. He wants something fresh. I hope Chevy keeps that in mind when they deliver a 6th Gen.

#3 has pretty much ruled out a modified LS3 over validation costs. That doesn't mean they can't or won't, but it is a big red flag. Changing the rear end gear should match the performance increase on all but the longest tracks and may allow Chevy to come in at your suggested 1 SS $42k.

A 'Mark Donohue Edition in Sunoco blue and gold only' would be absolutely golden!!! That may be the Z/28 Chevy puts the LS7 in. Would it sell? My guess is it could be sold out on a pre-order. The question is can Chevy make a profit on it or should it be built by LPE?

Thank you for bringing a new perspective to an important thread.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Wow the forum is dryin' up. Is it the economic news, lack of Camaro news or that Number 3 is AWOL.?

Well, the Z28 doesn't exist yet(except in our imagination for now ), the ZL1 stuff has run it course it seems 'till somethin new comes out, Number 3 or Fbodfather haven't been around and are apparently AWOL on important matters (thats a good sign) ..., I dunno...I've got an active imagination but I can't really find anything to even comment on besides off the wall stuff... Rumors! We need more rumors!!!! LOL..

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

You make some very good points. Allow me to comment on the last first.

Many of the ZL1 threads were Z28 threads before the announcement. People flock to the ZL1 thread for news on an actual production vehicle. Additionally, the ZL1 is going to be a seriously bad axx automobile.

Ford is very good at special editions that are not all that special. The BOSS suspension is a yawn and is most of the car. IMO Ford doesn't sell special editions. They sell motor options. Ford does a lot of things right. The converse is also true.

In a Camaro vs Mustang thread there is a current Mustang owner that will probably buy a Camaro. One of the biggest reasons for that is the 11 or 12 Mustang is so much like his current 06 Mustang. He wants something fresh. I hope Chevy keeps that in mind when they deliver a 6th Gen.

#3 has pretty much ruled out a modified LS3 over validation costs. That doesn't mean they can't or won't, but it is a big red flag. Changing the rear end gear should match the performance increase on all but the longest tracks and may allow Chevy to come in at your suggested 1 SS $42k.

A 'Mark Donohue Edition in Sunoco blue and gold only' would be absolutely golden!!! That may be the Z/28 Chevy puts the LS7 in. Would it sell? My guess is it could be sold out on a pre-order. The question is can Chevy make a profit on it or should it be built by LPE?

Thank you for bringing a new perspective to an important thread.

Nice post Pete. If Chevy does a Z28 and a special Mark Donohue edition with a LS7 at the same numbers Ford is doing for the Boss 302 and Laguna Seca version that would be around 4,000 units or so. Ball park 3,500 Z's and 500 Donahue's. There should be some profitability in that, not to mention the whole speciality, collectibility and legacy thing going forward into the future for Chevy. I hope they do soon. 2013 and 2014 before the body changes.

[2cnd chance]

Way cool!!! A Penske Version of the Z28.
Sadly more and more, through the grapevine I'm hearing after the 5Gen retro design is going away.
There must be a 5Gen Z28!

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Way cool!!! A Penske Version of the Z28.
Sadly more and more, through the grapevine I'm hearing after the 5Gen retro design is going away.
There must be a 5Gen Z28!

I am starting to wonder if we will see a Z/28 in a 5th Gen....

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Many of the ZL1 threads were Z28 threads before the announcement. People flock to the ZL1 thread for news on an actual production vehicle. Additionally, the ZL1 is going to be a seriously bad axx automobile.

Yes I agree about the production part. But most on the ZL1 forum are looking for a GT500 competitor. I started a post last year about calling the then Z28 a ZL1. Many seemed confused about the true Z28 heritage.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114054

I think the Z28 has a smaller potential fan club then the ZL1. It is also possible Chevrolet would accept losing money on every Z28. But the image benefit could out weigh the small cost. To keep the Camaro mojo going you need to keep punching over time until the 6th gen is released.

Then they could re-release the ZL-1 and Z28 all over again.

Ford is very good at special editions that are not all that special. The BOSS suspension is a yawn and is most of the car. IMO Ford doesn't sell special editions. They sell motor options. Ford does a lot of things right. The converse is also true.

Really, the Boss suspension is a yawn? The magazines are all gaga over the whole Boss suspension and package. But I have not driven one myself so you may know better. I did think about trading in my SS for one but then decided to upgrade my SS. I am happy with my decision.

In a Camaro vs Mustang thread there is a current Mustang owner that will probably buy a Camaro. One of the biggest reasons for that is the 11 or 12 Mustang is so much like his current 06 Mustang. He wants something fresh. I hope Chevy keeps that in mind when they deliver a 6th Gen.

Yes the Camaro is fresher and much more popular with the general public. To this day I still get many comments from the ladies especially. I am sure this is the car and not me.

#3 has pretty much ruled out a modified LS3 over validation costs. That doesn't mean they can't or won't, but it is a big red flag. Changing the rear end gear should match the performance increase on all but the longest tracks and may allow Chevy to come in at your suggested 1 SS $42k.

I guess he knows. I was thinking though if you left all the LS3 specs exactly the same, bore, stroke, cam, timing, intake, heads, valves, etc. and only upgraded the parts you would not have to re-certify. And it would be nice if you could move up the safe redline by say 200 rpm. A lower gear would help.

A 'Mark Donohue Edition in Sunoco blue and gold only' would be absolutely golden!!! That may be the Z/28 Chevy puts the LS7 in. Would it sell? My guess is it could be sold out on a pre-order. The question is can Chevy make a profit on it or should it be built by LPE?

Thank you for bringing a new perspective to an important thread.

Thanks!

[JusticePete]

Yeah I think the highly touted Mustang suspension iss a yawn. They lowered the rear by 1mm, increased the rear bar diameter by 1mm, which is a big increase and added bound adjustable damping. Compared to the ZL1 it is a joke of a change. In the Musstang world, my prototype Saleen S281 has a vastly superior spruspenion setup as well as wheel and tire combination. Our brakes are so much better it is a joke.

No one will ever look at a ZL1 and be able to make comments similar to what I just wrote. Having said that, when we put our Camaro and Musstang head to head, the Camaro was barely faster. 3/10ths on a 1.33 lap.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Yeah I think the highly touted Mustang suspension iss a yawn. They lowered the rear by 1mm, increased the rear bar diameter by 1mm, which is a big increase and added bound adjustable damping. Compared to the ZL1 it is a joke of a change. In the Musstang world, my prototype Saleen S281 has a vastly superior spruspenion setup as well as wheel and tire combination. Our brakes are so much better it is a joke.

No one will ever look at a ZL1 and be able to make comments similar to what I just wrote. Having said that, when we put our Camaro and Musstang head to head, the Camaro was barely faster. 3/10ths on a 1.33 lap.

Getting into specifics ... when you looked through the data, didn't you find that the Camaro faster through the corners and lost time on the straights, thereby indicating that it was the better handling car?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Getting into specifics ... when you looked through the data, didn't you find that the Camaro faster through the corners and lost time on the straights, thereby indicating that it was the better handling car?

Well I wasn't going to post that the Mustang out accelerated and out braked the Camaro in this thread You are right that the Camaro carried more speed in and out of the turns winning the day in the corners.

Part of that is my fault. My drivers are better than I am. I can run a car on track at let's say 90%. That is enough to do the R & D and setup work. They run harder. They are street cars. They are not caged so they should not be driving the car to 100%, but they come really close. The way I setup the Mustang it felt perfectly balanced and do mean perfect at 90%. At 90% the rear end was too loose for the professionals and we lost time in the corners. We resolved that with a slightly taller rear coil set and a sway bar 1mm smaller. The same track, same driver and same conditions would have the Mustang and Camaro in a dead heat.

That is why I want a N/A engine. No blower weight and less RWHP loss in hot weather. A LS7 5th Gen should be better balanced and faster. No if I could have 545 N/A at the rear wheels I am ESCTATIC!!!

Who knows. I may just buy a 2112 with FE4 and build build a ZLP/28. If we do that a few of you may come along for the ride.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I am starting to wonder if we will see a Z/28 in a 5th Gen....

I think we will towards the end. They (Chevy) want to do it. Stay tuned is what Fitz said about the Z28. Number 3 equated releasing the Z28 at the same time as the ZL1 to being up against oneself, as in an unsound marketing strategy. The ZL1 will gets it's run for a year or two. Then a limited edition Z28 with a LS7 will appear I honestly believe. Why not? Ford is doing a special deal with the 302R. The LS family will be phased out with the advent of DI coming soon. Oh em geee, how can we NOT have an LS7 powered Gen5 ride???. Yeah, the ZL1 has all the bells and whistles, and will be King Camaro maybe for all time to come, but an LS7 cross breed striped down and tricked out Z28 track piece that's street legal..., are you kidding me??? That's a no brainer in my simple mind. Better late than never.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

That is why I want a N/A engine. No blower weight and less RWHP loss in hot weather. A LS7 5th Gen should be better balanced and faster. No if I could have 545 N/A at the rear wheels I am ESCTATIC!!!

Who knows. I may just buy a 2112 with FE4 and build build a ZLP/28. If we do that a few of you may come along for the ride.

Keep pushing the envelope Pete, you certainly have support from us. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and you have the vision.

[2cnd chance]

Very cool stuff Pete.

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Who knows. I may just buy a 2112 with FE4 and build build a ZLP/28. If we do that a few of you may come along for the ride.

Pete, what did SLP pay for the ZL1 rights or did they?

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Keep pushing the envelope Pete, you certainly have support from us. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and you have the vision.

Just a reminder folks #28 is taken.