Did I Miss Something? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Wolty · 03-29-2013, 01:49 PM

From what I recall and have read about the ZL1 and Z-28...in the sixties/early seventies version of the Z28 was the smooth ride super fast camaro...you could get auto, AC, and the up-scaled RS package with the Z28. On the other hand the ZL1 was the bare bones stripped down version with the 427...a drag car.

Am I missing something or did GM get it backwards with the current Z28 (bare bones drag car with the 427) vs ZL1 (super fast smooth ride, LSA...not a 427)???

The Baron · 03-29-2013, 01:52 PM

Lol the new z28 in NOT a drag car.. it was built strictly for road racing.

fielderLS3 · 03-29-2013, 01:56 PM

Wasn't the original Z/28 in the late 60s built specifically for Trans Am racing? It was Chevy's answer to the Boss 302.

And the new Z/28 is not a drag racer. It will probably run circles around the ZL1 on a road course.

ZEDL1 · 03-29-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Wasn't the original Z/28 in the late 60s built specifically for Trans Am racing? It was Chevy's answer to the Boss 302.

And the new Z/28 is not a drag racer. It will probably run circles around the ZL1 on a road course.

Good observation. Yes it was, and the need for a below-305 CID engine (per the then-existing rules) is what created the venerable 302 for the first 3 years of Z/28 production in the /60s. Those rules were changed in 1970, resulting in the larger 350 LT-1 being the engine installed in the Z's of that year and forward.
That said, I agree that the 2014 Z/28 is built exactly as was originally intended for the first /67 - /69 model years - road track racing. Great call for GM/Chevrolet this return to those roots.

The (slight) anomoly is in fact our ZL1s, since the one-year-only /69 Zl-1 was built to command the drag strips. Something that it did quite well, in its' day. Our ZL1s do everything very well, but are not intended to be dragstrip-specific, as it seems was the GT500.

I too am interested in seeing how a /14 Z/28 compares with a ZL1 on a road course. I don't care about the end result, as I have the car that I want, but I'm still curious...

GoldenBear · 03-29-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolty

From what I recall and have read about the ZL1 and Z-28...in the sixties/early seventies version of the Z28 was the smooth ride super fast camaro...you could get auto, AC, and the up-scaled RS package with the Z28.

First generation Z/28's were not available with automatic transmissions or A/C. An automatic transmission was not available in the Z/28 until 1970. A/C was not available on the Z/28 until 1973.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Wasn't the original Z/28 in the late 60s built specifically for Trans Am racing?

Yes, the original first generation Z/28 was built to compete in SCCA Trans-Am racing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

It was Chevy's answer to the Boss 302.

You have it backwards. The Boss 302, first introduced in the 1969 model year, was Ford's answer to the Z/28, first introduced in the 1967 model year. The Z/28 won the SCCA Trans-Am class in both 1968 and 1969.

jazznurse · 03-29-2013, 03:18 PM

I seriously doubt if the new Z/28 will "run circles around" the ZL1. It's only 300 lbs lighter. Most of the technology it uses is from the ZL1. Maybe the should be marketing it as a "ZL1 Light". And the same people who cried to have the ZL1 available as an automatic will scream for the Z/28 to have one as well. Some people are never happy. Personally, I am. I have my ZL1, and it's all the car I'll ever want, or need, and I am NEVER getting rid of it. I look forward to running a road course againt some of my Z/28 brethren. Either, way, the winner is A CHEVY CAMARO!

hognutz · 03-29-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazznurse

I seriously doubt if the new Z/28 will "run circles around" the ZL1. It's only 300 lbs lighter. Most of the technology it uses is from the ZL1. Maybe the should be marketing it as a "ZL1 Light". And the same people who cried to have the ZL1 available as an automatic will scream for the Z/28 to have one as well. Some people are never happy. Personally, I am. I have my ZL1, and it's all the car I'll ever want, or need, and I am NEVER getting rid of it. I look forward to running a road course againt some of my Z/28 brethren. Either, way, the winner is A CHEVY CAMARO!

It proabably will run circles around it stock vs stock. ti will proabably flog the ZL1 like the ZL1 flogs the 1le.

here is why

1. 300LBS lighter 68lbs of that being unsrpung wieght this has more advantage than just weight
2. carbon cermaic brakes there are like 8-10k brakes (this are the best brakes out there)
3. no heat issues do to being N/A.
4. little less torque be easier to mange corner exit most likely and then lower gear and high revs fro the straits.
5. no frills suspentions tuned for the track.

now all that being said the ZL1 is a 1G car and for all the crap people talk on the internet no novice weekend shoe get the full drive out of a 1G car like a pro very easy.

add pulley, cai, tune, hx to a ZL1 and that 3 second advantage might be gone and still have all the creature comforts.

flyingskibiker · 03-30-2013, 12:32 AM

The first gen Z/28 was not a 90% track car like the 2014. Basically, besides the engine and tires/wheels of the '67-9 Z28 RPO (it did consist of more than that), one could order the same car with a 350 in it... Just check the SS-350 box on the order form and get the 12-bolt. Add M21, HD suspension and front disc brakes, plus a few other bits and pieces, and you were on par with the track performance of the production Z/28. One could argue that the 302 could wind up and had more horsepower than was on paper. I would think checking another box on the SS order form to change rear gears and it would most likely make it right back up.

Once a buyer checked the Z28 box on the order form, they didn't have to stop. They could add radio (no first gen came with a radio by default), RS, power anything, console, gauges, etc. etc. The only things they couldn't check were convertible (but you could get a vinyl top!), A/C, and automatic. So, it wasn't a track car any more than an SS was a strip car. Yes, one could buy it and take it to the track. But it was a STREET car first... It was never stripped down. OK, in '67-9 there wasn't much to begin with, but...

Don't get me wrong, I would own the 2014 if I could afford a track car. It is SUHWEET! Though, I think it is more a tribute to the Camaro's racing heritage than a first gen production Z/28.

fielderLS3 · 03-30-2013, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

You have it backwards. The Boss 302, first introduced in the 1969 model year, was Ford's answer to the Z/28, first introduced in the 1967 model year. The Z/28 won the SCCA Trans-Am class in both 1968 and 1969.

Yes, you are right. What I meant to say was that they were direct competitors, built for the same purpose. The first Z/28 came after the earlier Ford/Shelby Mustangs, and before the later Boss. The Ford people would like to forget their effort between the two.

Bigtime53 · 03-30-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

First generation Z/28's were not available with automatic transmissions or A/C. An automatic transmission was not available in the Z/28 until 1970. A/C was not available on the Z/28 until 1973.

Yes, the original first generation Z/28 was built to compete in SCCA Trans-Am racing.

You have it backwards. The Boss 302, first introduced in the 1969 model year, was Ford's answer to the Z/28, first introduced in the 1967 model year. The Z/28 won the SCCA Trans-Am class in both 1968 and 1969.

Are you sure you could not get a/c in a Z28 until the year of 73? I grew up in the "muscle car era" and I really believe a guy I knew had a/c on his red 1970 Z28. I maybe wrong and I am old as dirt now but I could have sworn he did!

VChula · 03-30-2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime53

Are you sure you could not get a/c in a Z28 until the year of 73? I grew up in the "muscle car era" and I really believe a guy I knew had a/c on his red 1970 Z28. I maybe wrong and I am old as dirt now but I could have sworn he did!

Most likely dealer installed.....

Wolty · 03-30-2013, 07:39 PM

Whether the z/28 was a drag car or a Trans Am series racer was not my main point...I was mainly pointing out the fact that why does the Z/28 have the 427 instead of the ZL1 as it did in 1969?

tones2SS · 03-30-2013, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEDL1

I too am interested in seeing how a /14 Z/28 compares with a ZL1 on a road course. I don't care about the end result, as I have the car that I want, but I'm still curious...

If the 2014 Z28 does win,....it won't be by much in my opinion. Granted the Z28 is lighter to compensate for having less horsepower, but the ZL1 was made for the road course. Especially that suspension. Just my opinion.

68vert · 03-30-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tones2SS

If the 2014 Z28 does win,....it won't be by much in my opinion. Granted the Z28 is lighter to compensate for having less horsepower, but the ZL1 was made for the road course. Especially that suspension. Just my opinion.

They have said the Z/28 beats the ZL1 by about 3 sec. They didnt mention th e track, but assume one of GM's own proving tracks.
Also, the new tires on the Z/28 are suuuuper soft and sticky. Treadwear is like 60 or 80.

03-29-2013, 01:49 PM	#1
Wolty Drives: 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: PA Posts: 65	Did I Miss Something? From what I recall and have read about the ZL1 and Z-28...in the sixties/early seventies version of the Z28 was the smooth ride super fast camaro...you could get auto, AC, and the up-scaled RS package with the Z28. On the other hand the ZL1 was the bare bones stripped down version with the 427...a drag car. Am I missing something or did GM get it backwards with the current Z28 (bare bones drag car with the 427) vs ZL1 (super fast smooth ride, LSA...not a 427)???

03-29-2013, 01:52 PM	#2
The Baron Drives: 2013 zl1 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: st louis Posts: 838	Lol the new z28 in NOT a drag car.. it was built strictly for road racing. __________________ 2011 cts-v coupe (pinky) wifes car.. ls9 cam c.a.i. 11.44 2007 corvette vert ..retired.. 2013 zl1 stock blower stock ci 20" wheels 10.36 135...so far..

03-29-2013, 01:56 PM	#3
fielderLS3 Drives: 2016 Mazda6, 2011 Mustang 5.0 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Portage, Wisconsin Posts: 4,049	Wasn't the original Z/28 in the late 60s built specifically for Trans Am racing? It was Chevy's answer to the Boss 302. And the new Z/28 is not a drag racer. It will probably run circles around the ZL1 on a road course. __________________ 2022 1SS 1LE (Arrived 4/29/22) "The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive." . 2022 1SS 1LE (Coming Soon)

03-29-2013, 03:18 PM	#6
jazznurse Drives: 2012 ZL1;2011 Cruze Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 228	I seriously doubt if the new Z/28 will "run circles around" the ZL1. It's only 300 lbs lighter. Most of the technology it uses is from the ZL1. Maybe the should be marketing it as a "ZL1 Light". And the same people who cried to have the ZL1 available as an automatic will scream for the Z/28 to have one as well. Some people are never happy. Personally, I am. I have my ZL1, and it's all the car I'll ever want, or need, and I am NEVER getting rid of it. I look forward to running a road course againt some of my Z/28 brethren. Either, way, the winner is A CHEVY CAMARO! __________________

03-30-2013, 12:32 AM	#8
flyingskibiker Drives: Cars, Trucks, Bikes, ORVs, Planes Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: South SF Bay, CA Posts: 228	The first gen Z/28 was not a 90% track car like the 2014. Basically, besides the engine and tires/wheels of the '67-9 Z28 RPO (it did consist of more than that), one could order the same car with a 350 in it... Just check the SS-350 box on the order form and get the 12-bolt. Add M21, HD suspension and front disc brakes, plus a few other bits and pieces, and you were on par with the track performance of the production Z/28. One could argue that the 302 could wind up and had more horsepower than was on paper. I would think checking another box on the SS order form to change rear gears and it would most likely make it right back up. Once a buyer checked the Z28 box on the order form, they didn't have to stop. They could add radio (no first gen came with a radio by default), RS, power anything, console, gauges, etc. etc. The only things they couldn't check were convertible (but you could get a vinyl top!), A/C, and automatic. So, it wasn't a track car any more than an SS was a strip car. Yes, one could buy it and take it to the track. But it was a STREET car first... It was never stripped down. OK, in '67-9 there wasn't much to begin with, but... Don't get me wrong, I would own the 2014 if I could afford a track car. It is SUHWEET! Though, I think it is more a tribute to the Camaro's racing heritage than a first gen production Z/28. __________________ 1968 SS w/ 1966 427/425 Sequoia Green w/ Bumble Bee stripe. Always working on it... Drooling over the ZL1s. It will be my next car if I can manage to pull it off...

03-30-2013, 07:39 PM	#12
Wolty Drives: 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: PA Posts: 65	Whether the z/28 was a drag car or a Trans Am series racer was not my main point...I was mainly pointing out the fact that why does the Z/28 have the 427 instead of the ZL1 as it did in 1969?