Do you think GM missed the ball my making the z/28 a track only car?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

I don't see Ford doing anything to try and "respond" to GM's z/28. Frankly, there just isn't a market for it. If someone wants to road race a Ford, there are already options available to them via Ford Racing. Granted, they are not street-legal, whereas the z/28 is, but if your real intent is to compete in a sanctioned road racing series, why would you need it to be street legal?

IMO, this car was built to appease a vocal segment within the Camaro community and they will likely sell every one they make but it will still be a street car pretending to be a track-specfic race car. That being the case, why in the world would Ford waste time and money trying to develop a direct competitor for it? If memory serves, GM never "responded" back in the day to Ford's 2000 Cobra R.

Ford will definitely come up with something to "compete" I don't know if they will go as extreme, but they might. You mentioned the Cobra R. Maybe its time for Ford to resurrect the Cobra R, the 2000 Cobra R only 300 built, unique engine, stripped of all amenities so maybe they will respond with something "equal".

Ford has been pretty good at responding lately, Camaro comes back witha 426HP LS3, Next year Mustang gets the 5.0 Back with 412HP, ZL1 is announced with 580HP Ford upgrades the GT500 to 662 HP. Also to try and regain sales, the Mustang has received 2 face lifts since the Camaro came back. The 2010-2012, and then the updated fascias and rear ends on the 2013s and 2014s.

So if I was a betting man, I would wager they will do something, I don't know if they will go to the extreme GM did with the Z/28, but I would bet they have something planned or in the works.

[Norm Peterson]

Thing is, will they do it the right way this time or will pressure for things like the appearance-oriented tire size stagger rule the day once again?


I'd really like to think that Ford's decision to go with the 3-link way back when the decision was made to retain the stick axle in the S197 was influenced at least a little by internet forum discussions concerning 3-links that had taken place as far back as the 2001-2002-2003 time frame.

That would give me a little more confidence that they're paying attention to what the people who would drive their cars this hard really expect. The Camaro team already gets it, first with the 1LE and now with the Z/28.


Norm

[LOWDOWN]

Recall those tag lines you see in advertising: "MSRP. Dealers may sell for less"? Well, in most jurisdictions, isn't it also "fair" that "Dealers may sell for whatever they can get"?

Less...more...in between...

Seems to be the way "free enterprise" works...which BTW isn't free, or even inexpensive, necessarily.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Seems to be the way "free enterprise" works...which BTW isn't free, or even inexpensive, necessarily.

Yes.

Truly free markets (free enterprise) don’t really exist. Every market has some rules and boundaries that restrict freedom of choice. A market looks free only because people so unconditionally accept its underlying restrictions that they fail to see those restrictions.

How ‘free’ a market is cannot be objectively defined. It is essentially a political definition. The usual standard claim by free-market economists that they are trying to defend the market from politically motivated interference by the government is false. Government is always involved, and those free-marketeers are as politically motivated as anyone.

Overcoming the myth that there is such a thing as an objectively defined ‘free market’ is a first step towards understanding markets and capitalism.

[shaffe]

I respect your differing opinion, would you care to elaborate why you don't see an upside for Ford?

[360ss]

Originally Posted by 90503

I put out the 100K price...and here's some of my reasons why....After reading most of the posts discussing the pros and cons of this Z/28 from racers, the GM folks, and all the other interested members, what sticks out most to me is this: (gonna paraphrase best I can)...

"The car is targeted for a sub-set of those who actually track their cars"...

"Z/28 has out performed more than just the ZL1, but other more exotic and way more expensive track cars...."

"It's street-legal, but not meant for the street"...

"It's production numbers will be limited"...

Those ideas and others, tell me that this is definitely "Not the car for you...if...etc."...(Definitely not for me)...

It is the "Halo Car" and a "game-changer"....

I think the rationale for comparing it's features and pricing as if it's another assembly line car, like the ZL1 and even the Corvettes, to try and guesstimate a price for the Z/28 are way off and do not, and cannot apply to this car....It is beyond any leap-frog game to compete with lot sales for a comparable Ford or Dodge...It's gonna be a world-class competitor and winner on the world-stage...and will be priced accordingly...

...Not trying to be a downer or negative at all...I think when it comes to what we expect or what we think this car is all about, we haven't really seen anything yet...and the price will fall into that category also...

Gm already stated the z/28 wouldn't be limited and from a business owner and enthusiast perspective 100,00 is astronomical for this type camaro. Maybe I'll just buy a copo and call it A REAL GOOD DAY!!

[Mr. Wyndham]

I remember when the ZL1 was announced...all the equipment it had standard...the outrageous performance figures started trickling out.....And everyone was guessing $60-$65 base price.

At some point...Fbodfather made a comment that I hadn't heard before...but it was brilliant, and I'll never forget it:

" **lists what it's made of, and what it can do** but despite all this, it's a Chevy - and that means value."


I think that applies here.

The Z/28 is made of expensive everywhere you look.....but it's a Chevy. And that's worth something.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I remember when the ZL1 was announced...all the equipment it had standard...the outrageous performance figures started trickling out.....And everyone was guessing $60-$65 base price.

At some point...Fbodfather made a comment that I hadn't heard before...but it was brilliant, and I'll never forget it:

" **lists what it's made of, and what it can do** but despite all this, it's a Chevy - and that means value."


I think that applies here.

The Z/28 is made of expensive everywhere you look.....but it's a Chevy. And that's worth something.

EXACTLY!

[OldScoolCamaro]

^, true,...many are going off into the deep end and predicting 70's, 80's even up to 100K. That's not going to happen, alot of people will be back peddling on this one.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

The Z/28 is made of expensive everywhere you look.....but it's a Chevy. And that's worth something.

Correct. It's a CHEV...but NOT a Cadillac...

I think a CTS-V should be the gla$$ ceiling, NOT the Z/28...

[90503]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

^, true,...many are going off into the deep end and predicting 70's, 80's even up to 100K. That's not going to happen, alot of people will be back peddling on this one.

lol...We'll see...But if it isn't worth 100k, I ain't buying one for sure!!...lol

[2cnd chance]

I'm still sticking with under $60K.

[68vert]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I remember when the ZL1 was announced...all the equipment it had standard...the outrageous performance figures started trickling out.....And everyone was guessing $60-$65 base price.

At some point...Fbodfather made a comment that I hadn't heard before...but it was brilliant, and I'll never forget it:

" **lists what it's made of, and what it can do** but despite all this, it's a Chevy - and that means value."


I think that applies here.

The Z/28 is made of expensive everywhere you look.....but it's a Chevy. And that's worth something.

So true. I am still thinking it will be below 60k. I believe GM understands the target market pretty well.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by 90503

lol...We'll see...But if it isn't worth 100k, I ain't buying one for sure!!...lol

...try filling up the pool first next time........