JANNETTY RACING ZL-1 BACK ON THE DYNO

[ZO6 Bryan]

Originally Posted by Stephen12ZL1

why run only a 10% lower pulley? You are not utilizing your new injectors very well unless you run at least a 18% lower or 22.5% lower. With a 22.5% lower you need to run an idler relocation bracket but so what. Trust me your power will be much greater and you are well within the safe RPM limits of the supercharger even on 93 octane.

I agree with Stephen. I ran a 9.55 pulley before my headers and it was fine. Engine didn't tolerate any more timing after the headers. And tons of CTS-V's have been running higher boost on stock exhaust manifolds for years.

[CRTZL1]

Originally Posted by ZO6 Bryan

I agree with Stephen. I ran a 9.55 pulley before my headers and it was fine. Engine didn't tolerate any more timing after the headers. And tons of CTS-V's have been running higher boost on stock exhaust manifolds for years.

Well I guess I'll have to question Ted on it again or hopefully he'll chime in soon. Believe me that was my plan was to do the 18 percent pulley but he told me he couldn't pull enough timing and headers were the solution.... at least I think That's how he put it...

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[Mikes fast ss]

Originally Posted by CRTZL1

Well I guess I'll have to question Ted on it again or hopefully he'll chime in soon. Believe me that was my plan was to do the 18 percent pulley but he told me he couldn't pull enough timing and headers were the solution.... at least I think That's how he put it...

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There's nothing wrong with getting other opinions from other shops either. Most people will do this. Like getting a second from your doctor. It's a common practice and boderline foolish not to.

[CRTZL1]

Originally Posted by Mikes fast ss

There's nothing wrong with getting other opinions from other shops either. Most people will do this. Like getting a second from your doctor. It's a common practice and boderline foolish not to.

I've talked to many shops and other people about Modding and other packages .. about this I haven't though cause it's in this thread on his recent findings of adding the 18 without headers.. and he is who I decided to get my parts from..,
Also he is the guy who is running the data and tests to see what combinations work best and what doesn't.
Nothing against the others above for there opinions but I don't think there doing the tests that Ted is to come to these conclusions.. so ultimately I'll wait to see his opinions on all this... sure he'll be posting in the morning..

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[Mikes fast ss]

Originally Posted by CRTZL1

I've talked to many shops and other people about Modding and other packages .. about this I haven't though cause it's in this thread on his recent findings of adding the 18 without headers.. and he is who I decided to get my parts from..,
Also he is the guy who is running the data and tests to see what combinations work best and what doesn't.
Nothing against the others above for there opinions but I don't think there doing the tests that Ted is to come to these conclusions.. so ultimately I'll wait to see his opinions on all this... sure he'll be posting in the morning..

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Fair enough. Best of luck.

[CRTZL1]

Originally Posted by Mikes fast ss

Fair enough. Best of luck.

Thank you... and I'm sure will get some more insight here... so stay tuned..
Believe me I want the 18 more then I do the 10 so will see What's up...

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[Stephen12ZL1]

headers are fine and definitely worthy but they certainly shouldn't be the reason for not going to a larger lower pulley initially. On the other hand, lack of fueling because of the stock injectors is a huge issue which you don't have utilizing the ID850s. The "huge restriction" with stock manifolds is not reality as headers are not an incredible horsepower jump (just read this thread...11 rwhp). Don't get me wrong, headers are fine and a great mod but your ability to run 93 octane because of them shouldn't be a concern. As Bryan stated above, his car didn't tolerate more timing in his tune just because he added headers. 18% or 22.5% lower without headers is no issue on 93 octane and has been proven to work well. It seems wasteful to start so low IMHO.

[white ZL1]

Originally Posted by ZO6 Bryan

I agree with Stephen. I ran a 9.55 pulley before my headers and it was fine. Engine didn't tolerate any more timing after the headers. And tons of CTS-V's have been running higher boost on stock exhaust manifolds for years.

Get out of here! You mean the LSA has been around since 2009 and long before the ZL1?


Guys.....the CTS-V people are the best to learn from, and is certainly (and far and away) the best board to do some research on.
Once you get away from camaro5 and the parts peddlers here, there is a wealth of information out there that applies to these LSA's.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by ZO6 Bryan

I agree with Stephen. I ran a 9.55 pulley before my headers and it was fine. Engine didn't tolerate any more timing after the headers. And tons of CTS-V's have been running higher boost on stock exhaust manifolds for years.

I work on Both often and as much as they are similar they are different.

The blower is not as good on the CTSV as is on the ZL-1

The ZL-1 with same pulley always has more boost than the CTSV.

We are typically 1 step larger on the CTSV on the crank pulley for the same combination as the ZL-1.

We are focusing on the Most efficient way to make use of the parts.

Yes you can run the 18% with factory manifolds and cats, but at 3800 RPM the engine is not happy and actually gives up 23 RWTQ compared to the 10% due to having to reduce timing to avoid knock retard and only to gain 12 RWHP up top.

Could also be a load of crap fuel which has a silver lining we Never know what we will get when we pull up to the pump.

What works today may not work next week.

My goal is to find what works well every week.

The gain from the 10% to the 18% is not justified in my findings with exhaust manifolds and stock cats.

I would expect that to change dramatically with Torco in the tank

Remember Octane is always the limiter of power on any combination.

When I added the Headers we were able to make use of the 18%, lower boost and still make more power.

You also must consider the faster we spin the blower the faster we build heat that the little intercooler has to try an deal with.

Boost over time is increasing Heat over time

As I said earlier, moving more air and fuel across the cylinder head with the least amount of restriction is the most efficient way to make power.

Ted.

[mrvenicess]

I run an 18% lower and a 2:55 upper and pull 13.9 lbs of boost on 93 octane with no issues. 41,000 miles and 400 passes at the track. I do have a cam and LTs that lowers boost compared to a car without.

[CRTZL1]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I work on Both often and as much as they are similar they are different.

The blower is not as good on the CTSV as is on the ZL-1

The ZL-1 with same pulley always has more boost than the CTSV.

We are typically 1 step larger on the CTSV on the crank pulley for the same combination as the ZL-1.

We are focusing on the Most efficient way to make use of the parts.

Yes you can run the 18% with factory manifolds and cats, but at 3800 RPM the engine is not happy and actually gives up 23 RWTQ compared to the 10% due to having to reduce timing to avoid knock retard and only to gain 12 RWHP up top.

Could also be a load of crap fuel which has a silver lining we Never know what we will get when we pull up to the pump.

What works today may not work next week.

My goal is to find what works well every week.

The gain from the 10% to the 18% is not justified in my findings with exhaust manifolds and stock cats.

I would expect that to change dramatically with Torco in the tank

Remember Octane is always the limiter of power on any combination.

When I added the Headers we were able to make use of the 18%, lower boost and still make more power.

You also must consider the faster we spin the blower the faster we build heat that the little intercooler has to try an deal with.

Boost over time is increasing Heat over time

As I said earlier, moving more air and fuel across the cylinder head with the least amount of restriction is the most efficient way to make power.

Ted.

Now that sounds like an educated response. One with actual fact and data to back it up. Thanks!!
Instead of yeah run the 18 , you can do it and you will utilize your injectors more.
I don't see the benefit of a 11 or 12 hp if it comes with the loss of 23 tq...

Like I said before I want to come into Modding slowly. Hell I may just stop after what I have planned in the near future... but one thing I'll do is take the advice of something that makes sense when adding my mods. I'm looking for a reliable, drive perfect street car, not a gobs of power track monster.


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[Stephen12ZL1]

All of the educated responses are 100% accurate, but I bet with all that being said the car with the 18% pulley will run a faster 1/4 mile time than the car with the 10% pulley. They will both be equally safe and reliable as long as it is tuned appropriately for each pulley. Now if one were road racing the two different pulley combinations, I would go with the 10% setup because of cooling concerns.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Stephen12ZL1

All of the educated responses are 100% accurate, but I bet with all that being said the car with the 18% pulley will run a faster 1/4 mile time than the car with the 10% pulley. They will both be equally safe and reliable as long as it is tuned appropriately for each pulley. Now if one were road racing the two different pulley combinations, I would go with the 10% setup because of cooling concerns.

Agreed. 12 rwhp is 12 rwhp

I might add, I am not trying to talk him out of it just providing the data I collect, share it, and let him make the decision.

Ted.

[ZO6 Bryan]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Agreed. 12 rwhp is 12 rwhp

I might add, I am not trying to talk him out of it just providing the data I collect, share it, and let him make the decision.

Ted.

But there is more than 11-12 hp on the table. Like I said I have friends with CTS-Vs running 22-23 % overdrive with stock manifolds and good tuning running in the low 600's rwhp and 122-125 mph trap speeds. This is with about 17 deg total advance at WOT. Which BTW is the same advance I was running with 93 octane and 15 psi boost. I can run significantly more timing now with my cam which lowers the dynamic compression ratio.