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Old 05-02-2015, 12:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
I'm on my desktop now so I can properly explain my meaning.

The dealership I bought my Camaro from in 2009 is one of the few in the Metro Portland area that doesnt seem to think that the Camaro is still a limited production vehicle. I could easily go down there and pick up a new 2014 or 2015 if I wanted to spend the money. I could also get one of the TWO ZL1's they have there, or the Z/28.

Or one of the 15 V6s.

My point is that aside from a facelift that was 50/50 hate or like...the Camaro is extremely stale. This is compounded by the fact that several of the larger dealers here, as well as other places in Oregon (Eugene and Medford) still think it makes sense to put ADM's on their Camaro inventory. I'm sorry but the Camaro isn't the new hot car anymore, nor is it special anymore.

With the industry I work in I have to occasionally travel to other offices in the state for conferences, training, etc etc office crap. One of the offices I have to visit about 4-5 times a year is down in Medford, where their largest dealer is called Airport Chevrolet. About a month ago I drove down, and instead of doing my usual approach of getting a rental car on the company dime (usually a Hyundai or Kia hybrid) I took my Camaro down since my company will get me back for fuel spent...plus because Camaro.

After about 9 hours of meetings with mostly slug brained mid-upper management, I cruised down to the local dealers. Drove a 2015 Mustang no problem at Crater Lake Ford, both an auto GT and a GT with Performance Pack/track pack or whatever it's called. No problem, in and out in two hours and two test drives later. Got an offer on both cars of $2,100 below MSRP on the Auto and 1,100 below on the GT PP.

Went to Airport Chevrolet and started looking at Camaros. A 2014 2SS auto caught my eye in white. I see it has an ADM of $3,000 for a total OOD price of 45,500. Salesman comes out and starts into the speech. I ask why the ADM, "it's because it takes time to get these cars since they're produced in Canada". I counter with "but the Challengers up at the Dodge dealers are and they dont have a ADM on it...". He then comes back with well it's because the Camaro is a limited production vehicle and is a performance car". I ask if that is the case why does that Equinox over there have a $1,000 markup? "Well..."

The lines continued, but I really liked the Camaro. So we went in and he lowballed me SO SEVERELY that I wanted to throat punch both him and the sales manager asshat that came out...like 2,500 below auction/ "black book" prices. Then when we got to an acceptable price on my Camaro he came back with an "offer" of 2,500 above MSRP...to make up for the "hit" they're taking on my trade. Mind you, my Camaro is in extremely good condition externally, internally and mechanically and only has about 39,000 miles on it.

No matter what they would not move off of the ADM or MSRP. I then mentioned I have supply side pricing through my company (we contract some services to GM) and they said "we don't accept that on the Camaro or the Corvette".

That is partly why the Camaro is having some problems at the moment. It's at the end of its generation, a new model is approaching and some dealers ARE INCREDIBLY STUPID. I could have easily turned around, gone back to Ford and driven home that night with a brand new Mustang within an hour...but I want to see what the 6th gen offers.
That's crazy because I always hear ppl say that Chevy's are harder to get than a Dodge or Ford. And I've had the same experience with a Chevy dealer where I lived because all the salesman kept preaching was that it's the hottest car in America. But the car was almost a year old and have been sitting on the lot for 300 plus days. But I have had better luck at other chevy dealers which is why I have bought two 5th Gens and neither one has been from that dealer.
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Old 05-02-2015, 12:40 PM   #44
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Well it was frustrating to me because I really did want the car. My finances are in line, my Camaro is paid off and I could easily afford the payments. The ONLY thing that stopped me was the way I was treated.
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Old 05-02-2015, 12:55 PM   #45
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Well it was frustrating to me because I really did want the car. My finances are in line, my Camaro is paid off and I could easily afford the payments. The ONLY thing that stopped me was the way I was treated.
Yea , I know! I have been to the same dealer where I stay for other things but left going to another dealer because how they like to treat ppl. So you was going to buy another SS? I'm surprised not a 1LE or ZL1.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:15 PM   #46
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Yea , I know! I have been to the same dealer where I stay for other things but left going to another dealer because how they like to treat ppl. So you was going to buy another SS? I'm surprised not a 1LE or ZL1.
The issue for me is that where I live..well I will give you an example



That is very near to where I work every day, and live in Tigard..basically a suburb of Portland. I cannot justify a 1LE because I couldnt use it to the capacity it deserves and a ZL1 or whatever the next gen S/C Camaro is..it's going to be tough using 600+ HP in traffic like that.

For me a 450HP SS with either the auto or manual (probably the auto) and maybe MRC if it isnt stupid expensive or bundled with some other absurd package would be the right balance. Further south from me there are more open spaces and opportunities to fully use a 1LE or ZL1.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:22 PM   #47
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Lmao.... Yes , just rushing and was busy with stuff at the time ! Smart guy. The graph �� shows that the numbers fluctuates and the Camaro sales is up this month . I'm guessing that you would say the mustang sales is on a down next month if it sells less than 13k this month . Right? Lmao... You're crazy. If you think the mustang is on a down just because it sells less than it did a month before. .
Of course, you can expect fluctuation from month-to-month, but the trend line for Camaro sales goes DOWN regardless of how you want to spin it. Why can't you admit that the Gen5 Camaro is just not as popular as it once was. T here is no shame in it, it happens with all makes/models when they get as long in the tooth styling-wise as the Camaro. Unfortunately, it's looking like the 6th Gen is going to carryover a lot of the same styling cues from the 5th Gen, so I'm not expecting sales to spike much upon the 6th Gen release.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:26 PM   #48
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The issue for me is that where I live..well I will give you an example



That is very near to where I work every day, and live in Tigard..basically a suburb of Portland. I cannot justify a 1LE because I couldnt use it to the capacity it deserves and a ZL1 or whatever the next gen S/C Camaro is..it's going to be tough using 600+ HP in traffic like that.

For me a 450HP SS with either the auto or manual (probably the auto) and maybe MRC if it isnt stupid expensive or bundled with some other absurd package would be the right balance. Further south from me there are more open spaces and opportunities to fully use a 1LE or ZL1.
Oh , ok! I thought you was looking at the 14-15's refresh Camaro's but you're talking about a 6th Gen ? I feel the 6th Gen will not look so good but that's just me. And I only said 1LE or ZL1 because those are the only ones that look good to me out of the 14-15's.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:30 PM   #49
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not from what I'm seeing in the Metro Portland area. If you really want one they are easy to find, just no one wants one
you are so right, the 2010 looks way better, thought i was behind one earlier today but it turned out to be a 71, sorry the rear was the same Name:  11182087_446701182165762_4849607795546961260_n.jpg
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:37 PM   #50
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I think what he was pointing out is that the Camaro is no longer the "gotta have it" vehicle it was back when it was first introduced. That's just reality.

We'll never know how the then-new 2005 Mustang would have fared versus the Camaro during its heyday, because GM didn't offer one.
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Originally Posted by ztwentypoop View Post
Of course, you can expect fluctuation from month-to-month, but the trend line for Camaro sales goes DOWN regardless of how you want to spin it. Why can't you admit that the Gen5 Camaro is just not as popular as it once was. T here is no shame in it, it happens with all makes/models when they get as long in the tooth styling-wise as the Camaro. Unfortunately, it's looking like the 6th Gen is going to carryover a lot of the same styling cues from the 5th Gen, so I'm not expecting sales to spike much upon the 6th Gen release.
I agreed with you right there! Lol.... Maybe you missed it. I for one don't want the most popular car because popular don't mean that it looks good to me. Actually I think the 13-14 mustang's look better and the 09-14 Challenger's looks better than the new ones.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:40 PM   #51
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you are so right, the 2010 looks way better, thought i was behind one earlier today but it turned out to be a 71, sorry the rear was the same Attachment 713318
love the rear!
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:00 PM   #52
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Lmao... You're funny because I'm stating the facts because the Camaro numbers aren't garbage because all the other years these 7,000 numbers to 9,000 was the norm . So the truth is the Mustang is selling more than they used too not that the Camaro is slumping so lets give the mustang credit. You sound more like the hurt one really now. So just face it . Oh , you have a modern muscle car?
You stated your opinion, not even close to just facts. LEARN THE DIFFERENCE! Just because you said something, doesn't make it a fact. Sheesh.

I never said Camaro sales were slumping. In fact, I never addressed that aspect in the least. My point is that Mustang sales are very, very high and that there are several reasons.

I never called the sales garbage either, but you're so interested in an internet battle, you're largely ignoring what you're reading from others and lashing out as if you want the world to know how unhappy you are. Relax already.

By the way, I don't have a modern muscle car at all. I do drive a full size pickup truck, however.

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Actually Camaro sales ARE on a downward trend.



I don't understand why you're raising a hissy fit over this though. It's to be expected. You have a brand new Mustang on the market plus an updated Challenger with a headline-generating Hellcat engine while Camaro is basically a lame duck until the 6th gen later this year. Camaro fans are waiting and a good chunk of the buying public would rather pick up one of the newer cars.


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well that stang might catch up and ruin the record before the 6th gen drops. no bueno
That's what I said... 2 more months of this and all 6yrs of sales advantage will be wiped out. That part isn't a huge deal, really. The important factor is that Camaro stays in the game and since the 6th will be here soon, we'll "worry" about sales this time next year, much more than today, which to me is more of an afterthought.

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I cannot justify a 1LE because I couldnt use it to the capacity it deserves and a ZL1 or whatever the next gen S/C Camaro is..it's going to be tough using 600+ HP in traffic like that.

For me a 450HP SS with either the auto or manual (probably the auto) and maybe MRC if it isnt stupid expensive or bundled with some other absurd package would be the right balance. Further south from me there are more open spaces and opportunities to fully use a 1LE or ZL1.
YOU have thought about this! I'd still like the 1LE, but... I think the 2016 will match it in base SS form.
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Old 05-02-2015, 06:46 PM   #53
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Just because the numbers are higher than last month, doesn't mean that's a success. Last months sales were poor as well. Their sales are still down.
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Old 05-02-2015, 06:56 PM   #54
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Just because the numbers are higher than last month, doesn't mean that's a success. Last months sales were poor as well. Their sales are still down.
Well would you pick a 15 mustang over a 14-15 Camaro?
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:15 PM   #55
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Well would you pick a 15 mustang over a 14-15 Camaro?
Not sure how that is relevant. it seems the ratio is 2:1 right now.
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:23 PM   #56
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Lmao... Have fun either way. hahaha.... Enjoy your pickup . Because I'm laughing at you .
Oh... well that's cool by me. I have many more things in life to consume my concern than you laughing at that which you cannot comprehend.

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Well would you pick a 15 mustang over a 14-15 Camaro?
This ain't about us, but I would, IN A HEARTBEAT!

The Camaro has some "issues" that most people just don't like if they have to driven it. It performs wonderfully in 1LE or higher trim. Still, the new Mustang is, far and away, the better/nicer overall vehicle. Most of the world isn't only about performance and zero else. Most want comfort and convenience as well as reasonable cost, over performance. There, the Mustang delivers in spades over the Camaro and the 6th gen will show even the likes of you... what a good car is. You can bet your beater 5th gen on that!
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