p0008, timing chains, 120k warranty???

[biggvan]

I am at almost 119K miles ( no catch can) and have had now notorious set of events which seem to end in timing chain replacement ( cel off and on periodically, engine losing power intermittently, mpg dropping dramatically etc) . I currently have error code p0008 and 0300. I have run mobil 1 synthetic 15k oil every change except the last which was a pennzoil full synthetic. I changed my oil at the recommended interval on the DIC which was the long 10k interval until dealer updated it a few months ago(20 K miles ago)I also kept the oil topped off and noticed wide variations in how much oil it would burn in between 10K changes. Sometimes a couple of quarts..sometimes hardly any. Because of how I was driving for work (1600 highway miles per week for about 1.5 years) that actually worked out to an oil change about every 5- 6 weeks. Oh and my only powertrain mods are the vararam ,and plenum cover spacer.

My frustration is that this problem began a few months ago before my 100K warranty was up and I had a long conversation about the timing chain issue with the service advisor when I put it in the shop. He told me even before the car was looked at( and in a rather haughty tone how the car more than likely only needed $380 worth of spark plugs and top end cleaner and that the chains were fine) I had not done enough research at that point to really have any cogent argument to counter with..I mean their advisers clearly know more than I do....right? Apparently the adviser was a genius because after diagnosis that is exactly what they decided I needed . It ran better for a little while but the CEL came back and turned off and on periodically...of course at the rate I drive, I was out of warranty at that point.

Anyway, I noticed someone mention in another timing chain thread that gm extended the warranty for stretched chains to 120K miles. I called a dealer at random in Pittsburgh( after hearing some bad things from other people I am uninterested in going back to the previous dealer) and asked them to look in the gm vis to see if that warranty extension applied to my car. Of course she said she was not aware of any LLT engines having any chain issues and no there was no such extension. She also told me she could not give me a price on changing the chains because "once you open it up you never know what you will find in the engine." While that seems somewhat reasonable , it does make me wary as you might imagine.

Which leads to my questions...does anyone have any better information on this mythical 10 yr/ 120 K warranty as it relates to the camaro and not cadillac, acadia etc? I have at most one more week before I hit 120K and even that longshot is gone. The bad news is that I dont have a long history with any dealer in particular so I have no favors I can call in about a known issue.

In the absence of any warranty I can use, does anyone know of a good dealer who prices this service reasonably in the PA/OH/WV areas? I will drive for service and especially for price.

Finally, will these chains break and damage the engine? Is it safe to assume that such a thing wouldnt happen at least until the CEL remains constant as opposed to cycling on and off periodically?

If I knew then what I know now..I shouldve let my oil run low 50K miles ago and triggered the problem myself to get it taken care of under warranty. Of course I cant really see myself intentionally abusing my car...but I'll be darned if that doesnt become a standard practice around here if it becomes common knowledge about these chains and the out of warranty cost...yeah you're right, that is ridiculous..I'm just pissed and venting.

[MMC]

Go back to the original dealer and respectfully request them to repair this under a "goodwill warranty". Don't get in someones face but tell them its a known problem and try to take a TSB with you if you find one.

[TooCool5]

Someone from GM should clarify this extended warranty.

[biggvan]

yes I wish someone would, I am fast approaching 120K miles and I accelerate like a baby tractor trailer so I know i have to get this issue resolved and soon...but I still have nothing I can say to a dealer to get any sort of warranty consideration since apparently no one in these dealerships in Pittsburgh has ever heard of LLT timing chain issues

[TooCool5]

Just what dealers keep telling me.

[TooCool5]

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...19#post6141819

[R6P]

#11340C: Special Coverage Adjustment - Timing Chain Wear - (Nov 5, 2012)
Subject: 11340C – Special Coverage Adjustment — Timing Chain Wear

Models: 2009 Buick Enclave
2007-2009 Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS
2009 Chevrolet Traverse
2007 GMC Acadia
2009 GMC Acadia
2007 Saturn OUTLOOK
2009 Saturn OUTLOOK
Equipped with 2.8L/3.6L Engine (LP1/LY7/LLT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional vehicles have been added to this Special Coverage. The service procedure has been revised to include reprogramming of the ECM, if applicable. If a vehicle is presented and the timing chain replacement is not required, dealers are to reprogram the ECM if it has not already been reprogrammed. See the service procedure for details. This reprogramming is covered under this Special Coverage. Please discard all copies of bulletin 11340B, issued July 2012.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ConditionOn some 2007 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles that are equipped with a 2.8L/3.6L V6 engine (LP1/LY7/LLT), under certain driving conditions, and with the vehicle's original oil change intervals, the timing chain could wear prematurely and cause the illumination of the Service Engine Soon light.

Special Coverage AdjustmentThis special coverage covers the condition described above for a period of 10 years or 120,000 miles (193,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership.

Dealers are to replace the timing chain. If a customer brings their vehicle to the dealership and it is determined that the timing chain does not require replacement, dealers are to reprogram the ECM with updated software, if applicable. Refer to the Service Procedure contained in this bulletin to determine if reprogramming is required. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.

For vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after February 17, 2012, are covered by this special coverage and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to February 17, 2012, must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

Vehicles InvolvedInvolved are certain 2007 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles that are equipped with a 2.8L/3.6L V6 engine (LP1/LY7/LLT).

Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the Applicable Warranties section in the Global Warranty Management System.

At this time, Camaro is not included... that may or may not change in the future.

The o/p may want to call Chevy customer assistance and request some assistance with the repair cost, they may cut you some sort of a deal. Maintenance records would certainly help.

Was P0008 documented on the repair order at the dealership while the milage was under 100K? That would help your case.


Good Luck!

And yes, if left for an extended time, chains will break or jump time & cause valve damage!

[Chevrolet Customer Svc]

Originally Posted by biggvan

I am at almost 119K miles ( no catch can) and have had now notorious set of events which seem to end in timing chain replacement ( cel off and on periodically, engine losing power intermittently, mpg dropping dramatically etc) . I currently have error code p0008 and 0300. I have run mobil 1 synthetic 15k oil every change except the last which was a pennzoil full synthetic. I changed my oil at the recommended interval on the DIC which was the long 10k interval until dealer updated it a few months ago(20 K miles ago)I also kept the oil topped off and noticed wide variations in how much oil it would burn in between 10K changes. Sometimes a couple of quarts..sometimes hardly any. Because of how I was driving for work (1600 highway miles per week for about 1.5 years) that actually worked out to an oil change about every 5- 6 weeks. Oh and my only powertrain mods are the vararam ,and plenum cover spacer.

My frustration is that this problem began a few months ago before my 100K warranty was up and I had a long conversation about the timing chain issue with the service advisor when I put it in the shop. He told me even before the car was looked at( and in a rather haughty tone how the car more than likely only needed $380 worth of spark plugs and top end cleaner and that the chains were fine) I had not done enough research at that point to really have any cogent argument to counter with..I mean their advisers clearly know more than I do....right? Apparently the adviser was a genius because after diagnosis that is exactly what they decided I needed . It ran better for a little while but the CEL came back and turned off and on periodically...of course at the rate I drive, I was out of warranty at that point.

Anyway, I noticed someone mention in another timing chain thread that gm extended the warranty for stretched chains to 120K miles. I called a dealer at random in Pittsburgh( after hearing some bad things from other people I am uninterested in going back to the previous dealer) and asked them to look in the gm vis to see if that warranty extension applied to my car. Of course she said she was not aware of any LLT engines having any chain issues and no there was no such extension. She also told me she could not give me a price on changing the chains because "once you open it up you never know what you will find in the engine." While that seems somewhat reasonable , it does make me wary as you might imagine.

Which leads to my questions...does anyone have any better information on this mythical 10 yr/ 120 K warranty as it relates to the camaro and not cadillac, acadia etc? I have at most one more week before I hit 120K and even that longshot is gone. The bad news is that I dont have a long history with any dealer in particular so I have no favors I can call in about a known issue.

In the absence of any warranty I can use, does anyone know of a good dealer who prices this service reasonably in the PA/OH/WV areas? I will drive for service and especially for price.

Finally, will these chains break and damage the engine? Is it safe to assume that such a thing wouldnt happen at least until the CEL remains constant as opposed to cycling on and off periodically?

If I knew then what I know now..I shouldve let my oil run low 50K miles ago and triggered the problem myself to get it taken care of under warranty. Of course I cant really see myself intentionally abusing my car...but I'll be darned if that doesnt become a standard practice around here if it becomes common knowledge about these chains and the out of warranty cost...yeah you're right, that is ridiculous..I'm just pissed and venting.

Hello biggvan,

This is an unfortunate situation your experiencing with your vehicle and I understand your frustration. I would like to get involved here if at all possible. Could you please private message me your name, address, zip, phone contact, VIN#, current mileage and the initial involved dealer info with the Service Advisor's name as well if you have it? I will then investigate this situation further for possible alternatives.

Reggie B.
Chevrolet Customer Care

[AdamEL]

Originally Posted by R6P

#11340C: Special Coverage Adjustment - Timing Chain Wear - (Nov 5, 2012)
Subject: 11340C – Special Coverage Adjustment — Timing Chain Wear

Models: 2009 Buick Enclave
2007-2009 Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS
2009 Chevrolet Traverse
2007 GMC Acadia
2009 GMC Acadia
2007 Saturn OUTLOOK
2009 Saturn OUTLOOK
Equipped with 2.8L/3.6L Engine (LP1/LY7/LLT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional vehicles have been added to this Special Coverage. The service procedure has been revised to include reprogramming of the ECM, if applicable. If a vehicle is presented and the timing chain replacement is not required, dealers are to reprogram the ECM if it has not already been reprogrammed. See the service procedure for details. This reprogramming is covered under this Special Coverage. Please discard all copies of bulletin 11340B, issued July 2012.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ConditionOn some 2007 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles that are equipped with a 2.8L/3.6L V6 engine (LP1/LY7/LLT), under certain driving conditions, and with the vehicle's original oil change intervals, the timing chain could wear prematurely and cause the illumination of the Service Engine Soon light.

Special Coverage AdjustmentThis special coverage covers the condition described above for a period of 10 years or 120,000 miles (193,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership.

Dealers are to replace the timing chain. If a customer brings their vehicle to the dealership and it is determined that the timing chain does not require replacement, dealers are to reprogram the ECM with updated software, if applicable. Refer to the Service Procedure contained in this bulletin to determine if reprogramming is required. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.

For vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after February 17, 2012, are covered by this special coverage and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to February 17, 2012, must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

Vehicles InvolvedInvolved are certain 2007 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles that are equipped with a 2.8L/3.6L V6 engine (LP1/LY7/LLT).

Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the Applicable Warranties section in the Global Warranty Management System.

At this time, Camaro is not included... that may or may not change in the future.

The o/p may want to call Chevy customer assistance and request some assistance with the repair cost, they may cut you some sort of a deal. Maintenance records would certainly help.

Was P0008 documented on the repair order at the dealership while the milage was under 100K? That would help your case.


Good Luck!

And yes, if left for an extended time, chains will break or jump time & cause valve damage!

This is an awesome piece of information, thank you for posting it. I understand that the Camaro is not included, although there have definitely been some reported issues with the timing chain and tensioner. Have you seen any bulletins for the V8's? Seems the LS3 is the one reported with the problems, not the L99's.

[TooCool5]

Adam,
All of these dealers seem to be trained into saying, "we are not aware of any problems with the LLT. I have heard the same from dealers.

[PieNsky]

Well ain't this just effin spiffy. I changed my timing chains on my on dime after this bulletin came out. With that said, I am glad that the rest of you may take advantage of this.

[Blue Bunny]

Just FYI. I just got the check engine light today. Hoping it's not the timing chain issue.

TSB #12-06-01-009-D
NHTSA ID #10052863
Date Announced:
APRIL 01 2014
Summary: GM: SOME VEHICLES REQUIRE REPLACEMENTS FOR HIGH FEATURE V6 TIMING CHAIN KITS AND GUIDE REPLACEMENTS. ALSO INCLUDED CHEVROLET CAPTIVA. MODEL YEARS 2007-2013. *JS UPDATED 7/18/14. *PE

[Toasty]

Looks like this bulletin still doesn't include the Camaro.... oh joy. And I just made appointment to drop of my car at the dealer for P0008 :( Surprised that mine started at 87K miles. It's one of the very early 11's so I'm apparently just that lucky.

[FloridaBill]

Originally Posted by R6P

#11340C: Special Coverage Adjustment - Timing Chain Wear - (Nov 5, 2012)
Subject: 11340C – Special Coverage Adjustment — Timing Chain Wear

Models: 2009 Buick Enclave
2007-2009 Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS
2009 Chevrolet Traverse
2007 GMC Acadia
2009 GMC Acadia
2007 Saturn OUTLOOK
2009 Saturn OUTLOOK
Equipped with 2.8L/3.6L Engine (LP1/LY7/LLT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional vehicles have been added to this Special Coverage. The service procedure has been revised to include reprogramming of the ECM, if applicable. If a vehicle is presented and the timing chain replacement is not required, dealers are to reprogram the ECM if it has not already been reprogrammed. See the service procedure for details. This reprogramming is covered under this Special Coverage. Please discard all copies of bulletin 11340B, issued July 2012.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ConditionOn some 2007 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles that are equipped with a 2.8L/3.6L V6 engine (LP1/LY7/LLT), under certain driving conditions, and with the vehicle's original oil change intervals, the timing chain could wear prematurely and cause the illumination of the Service Engine Soon light.

Special Coverage AdjustmentThis special coverage covers the condition described above for a period of 10 years or 120,000 miles (193,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership.

Dealers are to replace the timing chain. If a customer brings their vehicle to the dealership and it is determined that the timing chain does not require replacement, dealers are to reprogram the ECM with updated software, if applicable. Refer to the Service Procedure contained in this bulletin to determine if reprogramming is required. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.

For vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after February 17, 2012, are covered by this special coverage and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to February 17, 2012, must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

Vehicles InvolvedInvolved are certain 2007 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles that are equipped with a 2.8L/3.6L V6 engine (LP1/LY7/LLT).

Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the Applicable Warranties section in the Global Warranty Management System.

Wondering if GM ever added the Camaro to this list... And if not why not? Hard to believe they continued using those weak chains in the 2010's.

@ 63k and beyond the 5 year warranty...I cringe whenever I see a thread about the timing chain...