Yup, Night fury cam question

[Kings2010]

Didn't want to jack a thread, so here goes:


I've read just about every thread out there with the night fury mentioned in it and as of right now it's the cam I'm leaning towards.. Great power, great torque and a hair raising sound. The only thing I'm hung up on (call it me being meticulous) is the cams tendency to build the power (and torque) toward the upper limits of the rpm band. I know that is the trade off for going bigger. So I thought I'd do some research into other cams and what they are doing at a given rpm or, more importantly, at what rpm a given torque value was made.

In my research I have been comparing where in the rpm band the 400 tq mark is crossed. I've seen some as low as 3200, although the data on those few is not as wide spread and therefor a little suspaect to me. Th night fury ,however,is very established. It seems most dyno charts show it making 400 tq from around 3500-3800 rpm. I've seen a few that show a few rpm lower, but they are outside the average for most I've seen.

Enough with the background of my thinking. I started this thread because I was wondering about cam advance, specifically for the night fury. What affect would adding an advance into the the nigh fury cam grind have on over all performance and rpm characteristics? Say +3 or 4? What would the pros and cons of this be?

I have no qualms about ordering the cam as is, based on the sheer numbers of satisfied customers, but this thought flashed through my head last night as I was falling asleep.

Thanks,
B.

[christianchevell]

Competition cam has a good article about the effects of LSA if you search for it. Advancing a cam generally makes it act like it has a little more LSA and improves drivability and a wider LSA makes for a wider torque curve also not loosing as much low end torque, but had other effects the wider the LSA the lower the peak h.p. readings also. Try a search under plus symbol on cam specs.

[Lethal Racing]

Kings2010,

The Night Fury Cam is very well established. It is ground by cam motion and the camshaft already has advance built into it by design. There is always a trade off for power. Lots of times it ends up being low end toque. You can offset some of this by changing valve events. I have custom designed a lot of camshafts for our customers to tailor to their specific need. I can do this for you as well if you'd like. Send me an email (lethalracingshawn@gmail.com) and we can work on getting I done for you.

Thanks,

Shawn

[Bodywerks]

This is exactly why I went with a custom grind. Though the specs on the night fury seem quite elusive, general consensus is it's around a 23x/24x .61x/62x and a 113lsa with some advance built in, more than the standard 2 degrees.
The highish LSA and the cam advance are where the lite end tq loss come from. All the popular horsepower making cams are similar.
I want the horsepower, but like you I also want the lower end torque. That's why I went with a custom cam. Pat G spec'd me a 232/240 .654/.626 110+2 custom grind cam motion cam. The higher lift will help keep the hp up, will achieving that lift in a shorter duration will help with torque down lower. 110LSA will also help with the torque. Can't say yet what affect it will have on peak hp, but I still expect it to be over 500 when combined with prc255 heads, 11.25:1 compression, and 97 octane gas.

[Kings2010]

Originally Posted by Lethal Racing

Kings2010,

The Night Fury Cam is very well established. It is ground by cam motion and the camshaft already has advance built into it by design. There is always a trade off for power. Lots of times it ends up being low end toque. You can offset some of this by changing valve events. I have custom designed a lot of camshafts for our customers to tailor to their specific need. I can do this for you as well if you'd like. Send me an email (lethalracingshawn@gmail.com) and we can work on getting I done for you.

Thanks,

Shawn

I didn't realize it had advance in it already, guess you guys are doing something right to keep the specs a little hush

Sounds like a plan. I'll send an email when I get done with my honey do list today or tomorrow.

Thanks

B

[USAFS197]

You're going to get a lot of folks chiming in telling you that the only cam you need is a custom cam. Keep researching, I can almost assure you that there is already a cam out there that fits your needs without having to go custom. While there is little extra cost involved in going custom, many people will tell you that is essentially the only real option.

Really be honest with yourself when choosing a cam. Is your low end torque really that important to you? What do you define as low end torque? If it's for the track (drag racing more specifically), low end torque isn't important at all. If it's for every day driving, I'd wager to say that mid range and top end power should matter the most. I don't know many people who regularly stab the throttle at idle from a dead stop nor do I know many people who stab the throttle at low rpms.

Now, if you want better initial acceleration, I'd look into gears before I'd consider a cam.

[Kings2010]

Thanks for all the replies and info. What a great resource this site is.

Night fury is one bad mamma jamma....

[JusticePete]

The guys at COMP have a great cam for people that love to drive their LS3. Funny thing is, no one is really interested in it because the dyno numbers are not glamorous. It has great low end and mid range gains, but the top end number are modest. With headers and low back pressure exhaust it make 440 and 409. That is just a small part of the story. You have to drive the car to appreciate when and where the added power comes on.

COMP CAM Special Order - It has the lope. It delivers great performance across the power band. This is a driver’s cam, not a dyno queen glory number.

224 / 234 @ .050, .581/.576 w/ 1.7 rocker, 114 lobe sep 110 int c/l

These are light throttle runs in a customer's Camaro.





DYNO



The best part is there is NO drone.



Jersey Package Detail

[LSX Camaro]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

You're going to get a lot of folks chiming in telling you that the only cam you need is a custom cam. Keep researching, I can almost assure you that there is already a cam out there that fits your needs without having to go custom. While there is little extra cost involved in going custom, many people will tell you that is essentially the only real option.

Really be honest with yourself when choosing a cam. Is your low end torque really that important to you? What do you define as low end torque? If it's for the track (drag racing more specifically), low end torque isn't important at all. If it's for every day driving, I'd wager to say that mid range and top end power should matter the most. I don't know many people who regularly stab the throttle at idle from a dead stop nor do I know many people who stab the throttle at low rpms.

Now, if you want better initial acceleration, I'd look into gears before I'd consider a cam.

I disagree. There are a lot of considerations when choosing a cam profile that will net very different results. L99, LS3, VVT, Torque Converter, Ported Heads, Gear Ratio, Drag Racing, Road Course Driving, etc.

[Bodywerks]

Originally Posted by Kings2010

I didn't realize it had advance in it already, guess you guys are doing something right to keep the specs a little hush

Sounds like a plan. I'll send an email when I get done with my honey do list today or tomorrow.

Thanks

B

Pretty much every cam comes with advance built into it, 2 degrees at least. Cam advance is a rough adjustment.

[Taco Time]

Originally Posted by Bodywerks

This is exactly why I went with a custom grind. Though the specs on the night fury seem quite elusive, general consensus is it's around a 23x/24x .61x/62x and a 113lsa with some advance built in, more than the standard 2 degrees.
The highish LSA and the cam advance are where the lite end tq loss come from. All the popular horsepower making cams are similar.
I want the horsepower, but like you I also want the lower end torque. That's why I went with a custom cam. Pat G spec'd me a 232/240 .654/.626 110+2 custom grind cam motion cam. The higher lift will help keep the hp up, will achieving that lift in a shorter duration will help with torque down lower. 110LSA will also help with the torque. Can't say yet what affect it will have on peak hp, but I still expect it to be over 500 when combined with prc255 heads, 11.25:1 compression, and 97 octane gas.

I'm not sure how the Night Fury specs are elusive... The duration and LSA are listed on their website, and you can just ask about the lift...
233/ 242 615/ 618.

654/ 626, that's some lift! what kind of numbers are you getting with that?

[Bodywerks]

Haven't installed it yet. It's not supposed to be a top end cam, but I'm still expecting a 75-100hp improvement over my current numbers on the same dyno(including heads, higher compression, higher octane of course).

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by LSX Camaro

I disagree. There are a lot of considerations when choosing a cam profile that will net very different results. L99, LS3, VVT, Torque Converter, Ported Heads, Gear Ratio, Drag Racing, Road Course Driving, etc.

The OP hasn't indicated any of these to be factors so, I'm not taking those factors into account. We can go all day long about the what-if's and specific applications but unless he's searching for some super application specific use, my statement stands.

There is highly likely an evil, corporate conspiracy, off-the-shelf cam that'll likely suit his needs.