Ice Mode in autocross help - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

01sleeperZ · 06-14-2017, 10:13 PM

This "ice mode" may be what I was experiencing at my last autocross last Saturday in my 2015 manual SS with factory 1le suspension (but not the full 1le package) and 17k miles. Just before the timing light to stop time was a small hill, and the lights were at the bottom. I was accelerating to the base of the hill to cross the lights, then slammed on the brakes. Very poor braking!! Scared me!! With VERY heavy peddle application it would stop, but not great. The brakes were also VERY hot at the end of each lap on this particular event, an event with mostly long sweepers back and forth with a long slolem in between. I had the car in "competition mode" from two button pushes after starting the car. I wondered if the car was using the brakes more than I expected to maintain "electronic stability" during the lap, but I would have thought it was mostly off? I also had some more typical sponginess to the brakes at one other place on the lap with a quick left-right transition that had a fast short brake stab. I was spraying the front brakes with cold water after each lap, and the water just vaporized instantly-it took several minutes to get the front brakes to stop boiling the water quickly.

I think I may have boiled the brake fluid, and thinking back maybe was getting into some "ice mode" also at the end of the lap. I am changing to DOT 4 before the next event, and will watch for getting into "ice mode" and how to avoid it. I also plan to put in a separate OEM reservoir for the clutch fluid and separate it from the brake fluid like in the 2004-06 GTO. I have already done 7 events in this car, but this is the only time my brakes acted up. I have worried that I have some other brake issues, but coast down and other normal braking still seems ok on the street after the event. Any suggestions on anything else to check?

Thanks for any comments!

hey 1lehunter - those look like Z28 wheels you have, is that correct? I just put on OEM z28 wheels and I love how it drives all the time. Much less understeer, and just sticks better everywhere. I only have Continental DW's in the OEM size for the wheels, so it is not a super track tire, but very friendly on the street and for an autocross.

1lehunter · 06-15-2017, 04:56 AM

Unfortunately not OEM Z28 wheels MMR FS01 19's 1LE offset and widths.

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1lehunter · 06-15-2017, 06:07 AM

I have not ran into ice mode this season.
I'm running power stop track day pads and Castrol React fluid. But I don't think heat is the problem with autocross it's the initial application of the brake.

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01sleeperZ · 06-16-2017, 04:54 PM

Thanks for the update, 1lehunter!

RKeeton · 07-10-2017, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornercarver

I've had many encounters with ice mode. I ran Hawk HP+ front pads and stock rear pads for a while, worst idea ever.

Also I've found that he driver is typically the reason you get ice mode. Stabbing the brake pedal right after hard acceleration is what's causing it, its exaggerated when you have different pad compounds front/rear. Brake a little sooner and smoother and you'll never have an issue with it.

I ran into this finally at the divisional in Neosho. It was definitely a problem when I jumped on the brake pedal hard after full throttle. I adjusted my braking point back a few feet and went faster with no ice mode. It felt like the old cars when you lost vacuum from the engine dying and applied the brakes to stop.

JusticePete · 07-10-2017, 04:19 PM

ICE Mode is caused by braking technique. If you stab the brake pedal as opposed to squeezing it, you will encounter ICE modes. I have had numerous professional drivers run my cars for variouss development projects. The smooth guys never see it. The hard chargers do. The smooth guys are just as fast as the hard chargers. Different style. Same result. Only one driver I consider a pro has encountered ICE Mode and he iss very aggressive.

Squeeze the brake pedal, let the brakes start to work for just a fraction of a second and then continue to squeeze harder than you would is you stabbed the pedal. You'll get the same braking result, just getting there a different way, allowing the computer to catch up with your driving.

RKeeton · 07-10-2017, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

ICE Mode is caused by braking technique. If you stab the brake pedal as opposed to squeezing it, you will encounter ICE modes. I have had numerous professional drivers run my cars for variouss development projects. The smooth guys never see it. The hard chargers do. The smooth guys are just as fast as the hard chargers. Different style. Same result. Only one driver I consider a pro has encountered ICE Mode and he iss very aggressive.

Squeeze the brake pedal, let the brakes start to work for just a fraction of a second and then continue to squeeze harder than you would is you stabbed the pedal. You'll get the same braking result, just getting there a different way, allowing the computer to catch up with your driving.

I had someone come up to me after the first day and tell me that I was the smoothest driver in the heat. Maybe not the fastest though. Getting some bad habits in my old age. Lol! I did better the second day after I stopped stomping on the brakes.

Norm Peterson · 07-11-2017, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

ICE Mode is caused by braking technique. If you stab the brake pedal as opposed to squeezing it, you will encounter ICE modes. I have had numerous professional drivers run my cars for variouss development projects. The smooth guys never see it. The hard chargers do. The smooth guys are just as fast as the hard chargers. Different style. Same result. Only one driver I consider a pro has encountered ICE Mode and he iss very aggressive.

Squeeze the brake pedal, let the brakes start to work for just a fraction of a second and then continue to squeeze harder than you would is you stabbed the pedal. You'll get the same braking result, just getting there a different way, allowing the computer to catch up with your driving.

IOW, the ABS is at least looking at how fast the rates of [wheel] decelerations change. Second derivative of speed (which the wheel sensors measure) with respect to time, aka "jerk".

Norm

JusticePete · 08-01-2017, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKeeton

I had someone come up to me after the first day and tell me that I was the smoothest driver in the heat. Maybe not the fastest though. Getting some bad habits in my old age. Lol! I did better the second day after I stopped stomping on the brakes.

Don't you love it when you slow down andd go FASTER!

1lehunter · 08-02-2017, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Don't you love it when you slow down andd go FASTER!

Word ! Balance = Control = Faster times

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06-14-2017, 10:13 PM	#15
01sleeperZ Drives: 2015 Camaro SS VPX Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Utah Posts: 86	This "ice mode" may be what I was experiencing at my last autocross last Saturday in my 2015 manual SS with factory 1le suspension (but not the full 1le package) and 17k miles. Just before the timing light to stop time was a small hill, and the lights were at the bottom. I was accelerating to the base of the hill to cross the lights, then slammed on the brakes. Very poor braking!! Scared me!! With VERY heavy peddle application it would stop, but not great. The brakes were also VERY hot at the end of each lap on this particular event, an event with mostly long sweepers back and forth with a long slolem in between. I had the car in "competition mode" from two button pushes after starting the car. I wondered if the car was using the brakes more than I expected to maintain "electronic stability" during the lap, but I would have thought it was mostly off? I also had some more typical sponginess to the brakes at one other place on the lap with a quick left-right transition that had a fast short brake stab. I was spraying the front brakes with cold water after each lap, and the water just vaporized instantly-it took several minutes to get the front brakes to stop boiling the water quickly. I think I may have boiled the brake fluid, and thinking back maybe was getting into some "ice mode" also at the end of the lap. I am changing to DOT 4 before the next event, and will watch for getting into "ice mode" and how to avoid it. I also plan to put in a separate OEM reservoir for the clutch fluid and separate it from the brake fluid like in the 2004-06 GTO. I have already done 7 events in this car, but this is the only time my brakes acted up. I have worried that I have some other brake issues, but coast down and other normal braking still seems ok on the street after the event. Any suggestions on anything else to check? Thanks for any comments! hey 1lehunter - those look like Z28 wheels you have, is that correct? I just put on OEM z28 wheels and I love how it drives all the time. Much less understeer, and just sticks better everywhere. I only have Continental DW's in the OEM size for the wheels, so it is not a super track tire, but very friendly on the street and for an autocross. __________________ Last edited by 01sleeperZ; 06-14-2017 at 10:18 PM. Reason: a small update

06-15-2017, 04:56 AM	#16
1lehunter Drives: 2013 1le 2ss rs black Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: North Java Posts: 90	Ice Mode in autocross help Unfortunately not OEM Z28 wheels MMR FS01 19's 1LE offset and widths. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

06-16-2017, 04:54 PM	#18
01sleeperZ Drives: 2015 Camaro SS VPX Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Utah Posts: 86	Thanks for the update, 1lehunter! __________________

06-15-2017, 06:07 AM	#17
1lehunter Drives: 2013 1le 2ss rs black Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: North Java Posts: 90	I have not ran into ice mode this season. I'm running power stop track day pads and Castrol React fluid. But I don't think heat is the problem with autocross it's the initial application of the brake. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-10-2017, 04:19 PM	#20
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,174	ICE Mode is caused by braking technique. If you stab the brake pedal as opposed to squeezing it, you will encounter ICE modes. I have had numerous professional drivers run my cars for variouss development projects. The smooth guys never see it. The hard chargers do. The smooth guys are just as fast as the hard chargers. Different style. Same result. Only one driver I consider a pro has encountered ICE Mode and he iss very aggressive. Squeeze the brake pedal, let the brakes start to work for just a fraction of a second and then continue to squeeze harder than you would is you stabbed the pedal. You'll get the same braking result, just getting there a different way, allowing the computer to catch up with your driving.