Z/28 Auto? I sure hope its an option cuz its quicker in the CTS-V

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by brjray

Who said the V6 was not designed to have boost? With a forged crank and rods it cant handle boost but the PM rods in the LS3 are handling 6 to 10psi??

The v6 is 50hp/cylinder the LS3 is 52.8hp/cyl. The v6 has a forged crank and rods. The LS3 has a cast crank and PM rods. The pistons are not forged in either motor yet the Maggies are adding 150hp while busting drive train before pistons in LS3. With 573hp in a boosted LS3 your looking at 71hp/cyl. With a 425hp V6 its 70.83hp/cyl. To me it doesn't seem like this hp level out of a V6 is unheard of.

But I guess you know more than all of these companies selling forced induction kits: like Procharger, Vortech, Whipple, Magna Charger, STS, Kenne Bell, Roush, Rotrex, Turbonetics, Hennessy, Lingenfelter, Edelbrock, TFS, Harrop, GReddy, ATP, etc....

Please stick to your day job!

I would think that the Aisin MV5 tranny would quit before a piston with the TTV6. Putting different (forged) pistons in a motor is a relatively cheap from a design perspective. Designing a tranny for the v6 to handle the TTV6 hp/tq is not.

Also for all of you worshiping the Z28 nameplate. Go buy any Z28 Camaro between 1972 and 1997 and tell me how "special it is." Compare them to the current V6 Camaro and you will find that the V6 is a Z28.

Yes they looked cool throughout the years but you are arguing about motor selection and performance, not looks.

I cannot tell you how much fun it was to get smoked in my '91 Z by a stock Integra and basically every mustang gt out. I almost wish they would make that happen again. Bring back that car that was fast for 4 years and then rumored to be fast for 25 years yet got smoked during 75% of its existence.

Yes you can make a Z faster than the cars mentioned but if you want to brag about some nameplate then at least pick one with respectable performance. The only decent Z was the 302 so why not call the LSA '302 DZ' edition. That or call it a copo ZL1 if you want its name to match its performance. It could even be called a Cheetah out of homage for the original Z prototype.

However, part of the reason why the nameplates are so much improved based on the previous iterations is because the Camaro once sold like the Camry now does. With the Camaro moving upwards within the market in terms of cost you get alot of other frills.

GM can do whatever they want with the Z28 nameplate, much like they have done with our tax dollars. In the end it is their decision. Don't pretend that anything they would do at this point would be a let down because a 302 was an unlikely champion in the big block era it lived in.

If this forum would have been around in 67 the Z28 would have been an aluminum 454 or 502 and the 302 would have been "voted off the subframe island." If it is really a Z pick whatever motor size the current racing series they run calls for and make it a true race motor. Otherwise its just another BS nameplate.

wow someone is a little testy. and not everyone wants the LSA or a V6 so get off your high horse. and when we (I mean me and a select few) talk about the Z28 and how great it is are refering to the first gens. I noticed you left of the 98-02 Z28's. why? I mean by your standards there's nothing special about those either. they were just the base v-8.

guess we can't have a heritage inspired z28 and make you happy. and if they just threw any old race motor in it it probably wouldn't meet emissions. but the 5.5L DI v-8 going in the C6R would be a nice motor. But again needs to meet reliability testing and emissions requirements.

can I ask you how many of those aftermarket guys back a 100k mile waranty? and how many would? you sacrifice long term reliability with the added stress of FI. not saying the 3.6 TTv6 wouldn't meet their requirements. because quite frankly I don't know exactly what they require.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by brjray

Who said the V6 was not designed to have boost? With a forged crank and rods it cant handle boost but the PM rods in the LS3 are handling 6 to 10psi??

The v6 is 50hp/cylinder the LS3 is 52.8hp/cyl. The v6 has a forged crank and rods. The LS3 has a cast crank and PM rods. The pistons are not forged in either motor yet the Maggies are adding 150hp while busting drive train before pistons in LS3. With 573hp in a boosted LS3 your looking at 71hp/cyl. With a 425hp V6 its 70.83hp/cyl. To me it doesn't seem like this hp level out of a V6 is unheard of.

But I guess you know more than all of these companies selling forced induction kits: like Procharger, Vortech, Whipple, Magna Charger, STS, Kenne Bell, Roush, Rotrex, Turbonetics, Hennessy, Lingenfelter, Edelbrock, TFS, Harrop, GReddy, ATP, etc....

Please stick to your day job!

I would think that the Aisin MV5 tranny would quit before a piston with the TTV6. Putting different (forged) pistons in a motor is a relatively cheap from a design perspective. Designing a tranny for the v6 to handle the TTV6 hp/tq is not.

Also for all of you worshiping the Z28 nameplate. Go buy any Z28 Camaro between 1972 and 1997 and tell me how "special it is." Compare them to the current V6 Camaro and you will find that the V6 is a Z28.

Yes they looked cool throughout the years but you are arguing about motor selection and performance, not looks.

I cannot tell you how much fun it was to get smoked in my '91 Z by a stock Integra and basically every mustang gt out. I almost wish they would make that happen again. Bring back that car that was fast for 4 years and then rumored to be fast for 25 years yet got smoked during 75% of its existence.

Yes you can make a Z faster than the cars mentioned but if you want to brag about some nameplate then at least pick one with respectable performance. The only decent Z was the 302 so why not call the LSA '302 DZ' edition. That or call it a copo ZL1 if you want its name to match its performance. It could even be called a Cheetah out of homage for the original Z prototype.

However, part of the reason why the nameplates are so much improved based on the previous iterations is because the Camaro once sold like the Camry now does. With the Camaro moving upwards within the market in terms of cost you get alot of other frills.

GM can do whatever they want with the Z28 nameplate, much like they have done with our tax dollars. In the end it is their decision. Don't pretend that anything they would do at this point would be a let down because a 302 was an unlikely champion in the big block era it lived in.

If this forum would have been around in 67 the Z28 would have been an aluminum 454 or 502 and the 302 would have been "voted off the subframe island." If it is really a Z pick whatever motor size the current racing series they run calls for and make it a true race motor. Otherwise its just another BS nameplate.

How about you slow your roll a bit. You're coming off a little brash and dismissive. It is common for many tuners out there using the OEM nodular iron LS-crank in boost applications with aftermarket rods and pistons. Just because the LLT uses forged cranks and rods doesn't make it suitable for FI, or even super-crazy NA mods'. Sure, it'll probably support a great deal more, but don't confuse those features for absolutions. Just because there are forged pieces doesn't mean it's to the task of lasting 100K miles. Look at all the features LS9/LSA have on top of their forged parts.

No one's claimed to be an expert. We're sharing ideas and opinions. Just because you have no appreciation, respect, and seemingly not a whole lot of knowledge of the sum of Z28 performance, doesn't mean the name deserves less than most of us want it to. Sure, there were learning curves; every car's had them. If you aren't interested in Z28, nor want to contribute in a respectful manor, please visit other forums in the community. Keep these comments to yourself...

[BrianGriffin78]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

GM would have to be NUTS NOT to offer the Z28 with an auto.

There's a LOT of folks who want the go fast without all the work of shifting. There's the older crowd who either can't or don't want to use that left leg anymore for all that shifting. Then, there's the people who get tired of it in all the traffic..stop...go...stop...go...

The competition does NOT offer their top tier cars in auto (to my knowledge) and this is one area that GM could REALLY hit the nail on the head if they went with an auto.

GM....DO IT.

An Auto Z28 would be a monster. I am sure they will offer it. Although I am still debating trading in my SS for a Z28 manual. I have some time to decide, I think, lol.

I've had my SS for 6 months now and still look forward everyday to take it for a spin. I could have even more fun with a Z28, lol.

[BrianGriffin78]

Originally Posted by Shortbus

Real sports cars have manual gearboxes

If someone pulled up with a new Z28 Auto, I doubt anyone would call it anything less than a real sports car.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by brjray

Who said the V6 was not designed to have boost? With a forged crank and rods it cant handle boost but the PM rods in the LS3 are handling 6 to 10psi??

The v6 is 50hp/cylinder the LS3 is 52.8hp/cyl. The v6 has a forged crank and rods. The LS3 has a cast crank and PM rods. The pistons are not forged in either motor yet the Maggies are adding 150hp while busting drive train before pistons in LS3. With 573hp in a boosted LS3 your looking at 71hp/cyl. With a 425hp V6 its 70.83hp/cyl. To me it doesn't seem like this hp level out of a V6 is unheard of.

But I guess you know more than all of these companies selling forced induction kits: like Procharger, Vortech, Whipple, Magna Charger, STS, Kenne Bell, Roush, Rotrex, Turbonetics, Hennessy, Lingenfelter, Edelbrock, TFS, Harrop, GReddy, ATP, etc....

Please stick to your day job!

I would think that the Aisin MV5 tranny would quit before a piston with the TTV6. Putting different (forged) pistons in a motor is a relatively cheap from a design perspective. Designing a tranny for the v6 to handle the TTV6 hp/tq is not.

Also for all of you worshiping the Z28 nameplate. Go buy any Z28 Camaro between 1972 and 1997 and tell me how "special it is." Compare them to the current V6 Camaro and you will find that the V6 is a Z28.

Yes they looked cool throughout the years but you are arguing about motor selection and performance, not looks.

I cannot tell you how much fun it was to get smoked in my '91 Z by a stock Integra and basically every mustang gt out. I almost wish they would make that happen again. Bring back that car that was fast for 4 years and then rumored to be fast for 25 years yet got smoked during 75% of its existence.

Yes you can make a Z faster than the cars mentioned but if you want to brag about some nameplate then at least pick one with respectable performance. The only decent Z was the 302 so why not call the LSA '302 DZ' edition. That or call it a copo ZL1 if you want its name to match its performance. It could even be called a Cheetah out of homage for the original Z prototype.

However, part of the reason why the nameplates are so much improved based on the previous iterations is because the Camaro once sold like the Camry now does. With the Camaro moving upwards within the market in terms of cost you get alot of other frills.

GM can do whatever they want with the Z28 nameplate, much like they have done with our tax dollars. In the end it is their decision. Don't pretend that anything they would do at this point would be a let down because a 302 was an unlikely champion in the big block era it lived in.

If this forum would have been around in 67 the Z28 would have been an aluminum 454 or 502 and the 302 would have been "voted off the subframe island." If it is really a Z pick whatever motor size the current racing series they run calls for and make it a true race motor. Otherwise its just another BS nameplate.

Okay this just pisses me off, lol, you're comparing Z28s throughout the years to other years of cars, yes of course your 91' Z28 is gonna get smoked by a newer car, the Z28 badge itself doesnt mean its instantly the best most amazing performance car that ever will be, every year its a competition and quickly your top of the line performance car will fall behind as cars update and change, and obviously you really dont know what you're talking about when it comes to Camaros because first you would know that "Z/28" only truely meant anything during the first generation of Camaro because that was the car they used to race in the Trans Am series, after 1969 "Z28" was just a trademark name and wasnt a huge performance car, in fact after the first generation SS was always a higher performance package than Z28 (where available). The second indication that you have no idea what youre talking about is the fact that you're talking down about the 302, yes it was a small block in a big block era but those big blocks averaged around 350hp each and that "tiny" 302 made over 425 horsepower when dynoed (dont even come back arguing 290hp wikipedia figures, we all know GM faked those numbers, again because of the Trans Am series) the 302 was a MUCH better race engine than anything else out there, its a higher revving engine than a big block, its more powerful than most big blocks of its day, and it weighs a hell of a lot less than any big block

Your problem is you dont know your facts about these cars and you dont know how to compare cars, yes in their day any Z28 kicked major ass, in 1969 the Z/28 was one of the fastest cars on the road, in 89' it again was one of the fastest, in 2002 it was again one of the fastest, but in 2006 a 1973 Z28 will not be the fastest, and everyone realizes the power you can get out of a V6 they just opt not too because you can make more power out of the LS3, so whats the point, lol, i gaurentee you when the Z28 finally hits production it again will be one of the fastest, best performing cars on the road for 2011 or 2012 or whenever it is released...we'll stick to our day jobs when you do your homework before runnin your mouth off LOL

[DropTheGloves]

I already posted in a few threads about the Z/28. I might as well post again about this issue. The numbers have not been released, so it is kind of pointless to say, "well, it's going to smoke this car, and this car, and this car."

I can almost guarantee, that the Z/28 will be in the 450-500hp range, no more. I will go with the average of the two, and say the car will make around 475hp. Here is why. Chevy already has a top of the line car. That being the Corvette. The ZR1 makes what? 650hp? They won't give the ZR1 any competition, nor even close to it.

Remember, the more power your car makes, the more expensive it is going to be, period. As is, I believe the Z/28 is the better of the two...(SS/Z/28)..may be wrong, who knows, so I am sure it will be quite a bit more expensive. I am saying for a 450-500hp Z/28, they will have it priced in the 40-45k range starting out, without any extras. If they were to go with 550hp, which I am 99.9% certain they won't, I can guarantee, they would have it in the 45-52k range.

Again, to say that this car, that we really know nothing about, will beat another 550hp monster, is ridiculous. You guys should just wait and see what it will have to offer.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by DropTheGloves

I already posted in a few threads about the Z/28. I might as well post again about this issue. The numbers have not been released, so it is kind of pointless to say, "well, it's going to smoke this car, and this car, and this car."

I can almost guarantee, that the Z/28 will be in the 450-500hp range, no more. I will go with the average of the two, and say the car will make around 475hp. Here is why. Chevy already has a top of the line car. That being the Corvette. The ZR1 makes what? 650hp? They won't give the ZR1 any competition, nor even close to it.

Remember, the more power your car makes, the more expensive it is going to be, period. As is, I believe the Z/28 is the better of the two...(SS/Z/28)..may be wrong, who knows, so I am sure it will be quite a bit more expensive. I am saying for a 450-500hp Z/28, they will have it priced in the 40-45k range starting out, without any extras. If they were to go with 550hp, which I am 99.9% certain they won't, I can guarantee, they would have it in the 45-52k range.

Again, to say that this car, that we really know nothing about, will beat another 550hp monster, is ridiculous. You guys should just wait and see what it will have to offer.

Good points, to be sure, but I don't agree on all of them. I can't see a person who can afford ZR1 would take Z28 over it. Maybe both, but I don't think there's cross-shopping there. I could be wrong, because I'm not in the demographic I'm thinking of. I'll tell you that if I had the money for ZR1, and Z28 is what I hope it will be, I'd still take it over ZR1; that's just me though. There was like only one time where the top Camaro got close to the top Corvette in price - those were different days. I don't think we're going to have a 600-horse Z28, but I don't think something in the realm of what the CTS-V makes is out of the question.

Time will tell...

[Vega]

Originally Posted by DropTheGloves

I already posted in a few threads about the Z/28. I might as well post again about this issue. The numbers have not been released, so it is kind of pointless to say, "well, it's going to smoke this car, and this car, and this car."

I can almost guarantee, that the Z/28 will be in the 450-500hp range, no more. I will go with the average of the two, and say the car will make around 475hp. Here is why. Chevy already has a top of the line car. That being the Corvette. The ZR1 makes what? 650hp? They won't give the ZR1 any competition, nor even close to it.

Remember, the more power your car makes, the more expensive it is going to be, period. As is, I believe the Z/28 is the better of the two...(SS/Z/28)..may be wrong, who knows, so I am sure it will be quite a bit more expensive. I am saying for a 450-500hp Z/28, they will have it priced in the 40-45k range starting out, without any extras. If they were to go with 550hp, which I am 99.9% certain they won't, I can guarantee, they would have it in the 45-52k range.

Again, to say that this car, that we really know nothing about, will beat another 550hp monster, is ridiculous. You guys should just wait and see what it will have to offer.

Hm, yeah i guess i could agree with you on that, its hard to really speculate on a car that hasnt been even made into a prototype yet, i guess most of us are speculating from the HPE550 Camaro which is prett much what everyone has speculated the Z/28 would be (that being a supercharged LS3 Camaro)...its good to have some nice speculation and trying to weed out the facts and stuff but its also good to keep a nice conservative approach too, gotta keep the balance haha

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by DropTheGloves

I already posted in a few threads about the Z/28. I might as well post again about this issue. The numbers have not been released, so it is kind of pointless to say, "well, it's going to smoke this car, and this car, and this car."

I can almost guarantee, that the Z/28 will be in the 450-500hp range, no more. I will go with the average of the two, and say the car will make around 475hp. Here is why. Chevy already has a top of the line car. That being the Corvette. The ZR1 makes what? 650hp? They won't give the ZR1 any competition, nor even close to it.

Remember, the more power your car makes, the more expensive it is going to be, period. As is, I believe the Z/28 is the better of the two...(SS/Z/28)..may be wrong, who knows, so I am sure it will be quite a bit more expensive. I am saying for a 450-500hp Z/28, they will have it priced in the 40-45k range starting out, without any extras. If they were to go with 550hp, which I am 99.9% certain they won't, I can guarantee, they would have it in the 45-52k range.

Again, to say that this car, that we really know nothing about, will beat another 550hp monster, is ridiculous. You guys should just wait and see what it will have to offer.

who's saying it will? far as I know I'm saying it should because the GT500 should be the benchmark for the Z28. seeing how the SS was benchmarked against the GT. and the LS and LT were benchmarked against the v6 stang. so with the concept of direct competition that would leave one mustang (built at the factory) unchallenged by the camaro. you may argue that the vette already beats it. but the vette isn't a 2+2, the mustang is. the GT500 pricing is around 48k. which makes sense the z28 (if it's being benchmarked against the GT500) would come in around that price to. so there's nothing wrong with your pricing. but why do you believe that it won't be a 500+ hp car again?

[DropTheGloves]

I just don't see it being a 500hp+ car, period. No real reason.

You could also look at past generations, it's not like the two ( ss & z/28 ) were 100hp+ in difference. They have always kept it relatively close. Maybe, that is why I feel the way I do.

I will say that the benchmarks, were terrible ones. For one minute, let's throw out the price figure. Let's look strictly on the numbers. Horsepower numbers to be exact.

SS vs GT. That is a sorry benchmark. 422hp vs 315ish or so. Not real exact on the numbers, as I do not have them in front of me. The SS better be a quicker car. Plain and simple. 107hp difference is quite a bit. Granted, I believe the SS is heavier by a little bit. Still though. Terrible benchmark.

v6's vs v6's...this again is a joke. It's what? 304hp, to like 210hp?

I think Chevy will stick to what they have done before, and that is keeping the numbers relatively close.

[Vega]

Id have to say the Z/28 would most likely push around 550hp, the GT500 already does and the concept LS7 Camaro made about that much on its NA engine, also i doubt the Z/28 would be able to keep up with the GT500 unless it was adequatly powered...even though the GT500 matches weight with the SS Camaro (which most people forget, lol) these are just my assumptions anyways, we're still speculating after all

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by DropTheGloves

I just don't see it being a 500hp+ car, period. No real reason.

You could also look at past generations, it's not like the two ( ss & z/28 ) were 100hp+ in difference. They have always kept it relatively close. Maybe, that is why I feel the way I do.

I will say that the benchmarks, were terrible ones. For one minute, let's throw out the price figure. Let's look strictly on the numbers. Horsepower numbers to be exact.

SS vs GT. That is a sorry benchmark. 422hp vs 315ish or so. Not real exact on the numbers, as I do not have them in front of me. The SS better be a quicker car. Plain and simple. 107hp difference is quite a bit. Granted, I believe the SS is heavier by a little bit. Still though. Terrible benchmark.

v6's vs v6's...this again is a joke. It's what? 304hp, to like 210hp?

I think Chevy will stick to what they have done before, and that is keeping the numbers relatively close.

I still don't see your arguement as it being a terrible benchmark. the mustang wasn't the only bench mark. and on top of that the mustang is a direct competitor. so wouldn't you want the camaro to beat it? yea you would. so you would compare the two. and then take an educated guess as to what the competition would do in response and set your self that much higher. at least I would hope so.

so to me your arguement is flawed on why it was a joke. for all you know the reason the chose the engine combinations they did was because they predicted ford would respond with a strong mustang within 2 years of the camaro's debut.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

I still don't see your arguement as it being a terrible benchmark. the mustang wasn't the only bench mark. and on top of that the mustang is a direct competitor. so wouldn't you want the camaro to beat it? yea you would. so you would compare the two. and then take an educated guess as to what the competition would do in response and set your self that much higher. at least I would hope so.

so to me your arguement is flawed on why it was a joke. for all you know the reason the chose the engine combinations they did was because they predicted ford would respond with a strong mustang within 2 years of the camaro's debut.

And how wrong would they have been? haha, just the year after Ford responds by dropping the 400hp 5.0 (estimated, it will most likely make more than that) and the 315hp V6, soi could see a 550-600hp Z/28 just to up the anti on the GT500 a little, but i wouldnt be surprised if Ford brought the GT500 up to 600hp soon after (but what would happen to the name!?! LOL GT600?)

[DropTheGloves]

I don't know why you guys are so defensive about this topic lol. Let me guess, and in 5 years, they SS will be 900hp and the z/28 will be 1100hp? No. I am going to laugh when it comes out that the z/28 will have no more than 500hp.