Next big project - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

SSSoon · 03-16-2013, 09:59 PM

First shot, putting the bar in.

Second shot, mostly in place, starting to drill holes

Third shot - damn backing plates didn't come pre-drilled so I have to figure out exactly where to drill them. Major PITA.

Starting to worry a bit because if there is any tension in the bar from the way it is mounted, I won't be able to put the tube clamps back together once I take them out (!!)

Fit is not perfect - some angles not right. May try putting on 4-5 washers as spacers between the car body and the mounting plates. Dunno. That will be tomorrow.

SSSoon · 03-17-2013, 07:15 PM

Front brackets mounted. Took a while to get the holes lined up - not easy at all. Note the mis-drilled holes in the bottom plate in the attached pic. If it really bothers me I'll get new mounting plates - easy to swap off the bottom.

Still concerned with tension on the tube clamps so drilled out all the holes in the body to 7/16ths. I am mounting each plate exactly where it wants to be and shimming up behind all plates so that there is no tension. Hopefully will work.

Also got some thick rubber washers and will sandwich one between two regular washers behind the rear mounting plates, just to make sure the plates have at least a little flexibility. Don't think that would compromise crash performance because each plate is held in place with hardened steel nylock nuts. The rubber would just be between the plates and the body, to give a little flex.

Wrapped the brake lines and the fuel lines with rubber hose and ziptied. Took the shot below, and then decided to wrap it again with another layer just in case

With the two forward mounting plates torqued down tight, I wanted to test the attachment points. Undid the bolts holding the tube clamps together and the darn thing wouldn't separate. Had to hit it a bunch with a rubber mallet and eventually it popped apart. Paint jamming it up. Filed all connecting surfaces in the tube clamps flat and even beveled the edge a little just so that the surfaces can slip together easily. Once the filing is done, they connect very nicely and easily.

Will work on the rear mounting points tomorrow

SSSoon · 03-18-2013, 08:00 PM

These are tube clamps. Both sides identical, the pieces slide together and then bolt in. In theory, a great idea. In practice, a bitch. They have to be exactly perfectly aligned to work. Am going to try beveling the edges by 5 thousandths to make installation and removal easier.

Synner · 03-18-2013, 08:51 PM

Flex is not something I'd want on a bolt mounting location. Thats what allows a lateral shear load that could snap a bolt or increase the stress on the threads to the point of failure. I would have it rigid. Maybe its compressed enough it won't matter but when the whole point of the cage is safety I wouldn't compromise there.

The clamps would be far easier to align if they weren't fully welded in until after mock-up but I guess that ship has sailed.

SSSoon · 03-18-2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synner

Flex is not something I'd want on a bolt mounting location. Thats what allows a lateral shear load that could snap a bolt or increase the stress on the threads to the point of failure. I would have it rigid. Maybe its compressed enough it won't matter but when the whole point of the cage is safety I wouldn't compromise there.

The clamps would be far easier to align if they weren't fully welded in until after mock-up but I guess that ship has sailed.

I hear you. For me, beveling the leading edges a bit so that the pieces can slip in place better is worth it. Won't change the bulk of the solid steel connection points, just entry points (so to speak). I'm pretty sure this would not compromise anything. It won't be flexible or loose once it's together.

Synner · 03-18-2013, 09:02 PM

No I'm talking the rubber washers under the plate. Granted there's 4 bolts but the structural engineer in me says "Danger Will Robinson!" Over time any vibration/loosening could shear a bolt or the threads.

SSSoon · 03-18-2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synner

No I'm talking the rubber washers under the plate. Granted there's 4 bolts but the structural engineer in me says "Danger Will Robinson!" Over time any vibration/loosening could shear a bolt or the threads.

Ah - gotcha. Yeah. We tried the rubber washers, didn't do any good (once compressed, maybe isolates some vibration but provides no flex.) Took 'em out. It's steel on steel now. Thanks for the suggestion - good point!

Synner · 03-18-2013, 09:19 PM

OK cool. Even something as random as the different expansion/contraction rates from temperature between rubber and steel could be enough to cause slack. Or the rubber degrading over time. Then vibration will slowly compromise the bolt threads or generate lateral point loads and you'd never notice until that oh shit moment when you need the cage and they snap. Steel on steel all the way with some loctite after final mockup. Any flex will introduce some bad ju-ju so if you need flex to make it work rethink the mounting method.

SSSoon · 03-21-2013, 10:25 AM

Beveling the tube clamps by even tiny amounts makes a huge difference in getting the bars in and out. But, once they are all the way in, they are locked solid. Really nice.

It takes 2 minutes for 2 guys to pick up the bar, walk it into the car, place the rears, bang a bit with a rubber mallet to get all the way in, place the fronts, bang them in. Huge difference from before.

A few minutes to thread in the bolts (2 per tube clamp) and it is ready to rock.

I need to do some final fit and finish this weekend around the mounting plates and adjusting the angles on one of the post a bit, but this is close to done now.

SSSoon · 04-07-2013, 03:33 PM

Back from vacation. Going to try to finish this project. Roll bars do not line up right on the rear fenders (angle is off) and so need to be either spaced out or cut and re-welded. Going to visit a local guy who builds race cars tomorrow so we can get this finalized.

cornerspeed92 · 04-07-2013, 05:46 PM

Ever think about running http://www.sscc.us/ With that setup you could run the Grand sport cless with a tech(top speed)of 165 mph

SSSoon · 04-07-2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornerspeed92

Ever think about running http://www.sscc.us/ With that setup you could run the Grand sport class with a tech(top speed)of 165 mph

I'm working my way up. Last time at VIR I consistently hit 130 on the back stretch. It's a little unnerving because you have the pedal to the metal as you go up over a rise, hoping to hell that nobody has spun out on the other side. I hit 130 juuuuust as I crest the hill.

But that was before I installed the supercharger

Should be more fun next time around. Trying to get it all together so I can run with an Audi club April 15/16, if I can get off work.

cornerspeed92 · 04-07-2013, 06:51 PM

Sounds like super fun,good luck man

i sure hope i can run VIR someday!

SSSoon · 04-07-2013, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornerspeed92

Sounds like super fun,good luck man

i sure hope i can run VIR someday!

Here is a nice run from last October if you are interested:

03-16-2013, 09:59 PM	#15
SSSoon Drives: RY 2011 2SS A6 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 997	First shot, putting the bar in. Second shot, mostly in place, starting to drill holes Third shot - damn backing plates didn't come pre-drilled so I have to figure out exactly where to drill them. Major PITA. Starting to worry a bit because if there is any tension in the bar from the way it is mounted, I won't be able to put the tube clamps back together once I take them out (!!) Fit is not perfect - some angles not right. May try putting on 4-5 washers as spacers between the car body and the mounting plates. Dunno. That will be tomorrow. Attached Images __________________ Dry sump LS7, cage, JPSS suspension, Wilwood brakes, fire suppression, ARH 3" headers/exhaust, Z/28 DSSV coilovers, Kirkey seats, TeamTech 6-point harnesses, 19" Forgeline GA3R, 325/30R19 Re11 tires, oil cooler, monster JPSS splitter/wickerbill, CAI, brake ducts.

03-17-2013, 07:15 PM	#16
SSSoon Drives: RY 2011 2SS A6 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 997	Front brackets mounted. Took a while to get the holes lined up - not easy at all. Note the mis-drilled holes in the bottom plate in the attached pic. If it really bothers me I'll get new mounting plates - easy to swap off the bottom. Still concerned with tension on the tube clamps so drilled out all the holes in the body to 7/16ths. I am mounting each plate exactly where it wants to be and shimming up behind all plates so that there is no tension. Hopefully will work. Also got some thick rubber washers and will sandwich one between two regular washers behind the rear mounting plates, just to make sure the plates have at least a little flexibility. Don't think that would compromise crash performance because each plate is held in place with hardened steel nylock nuts. The rubber would just be between the plates and the body, to give a little flex. Wrapped the brake lines and the fuel lines with rubber hose and ziptied. Took the shot below, and then decided to wrap it again with another layer just in case With the two forward mounting plates torqued down tight, I wanted to test the attachment points. Undid the bolts holding the tube clamps together and the darn thing wouldn't separate. Had to hit it a bunch with a rubber mallet and eventually it popped apart. Paint jamming it up. Filed all connecting surfaces in the tube clamps flat and even beveled the edge a little just so that the surfaces can slip together easily. Once the filing is done, they connect very nicely and easily. Will work on the rear mounting points tomorrow Attached Images __________________ Dry sump LS7, cage, JPSS suspension, Wilwood brakes, fire suppression, ARH 3" headers/exhaust, Z/28 DSSV coilovers, Kirkey seats, TeamTech 6-point harnesses, 19" Forgeline GA3R, 325/30R19 Re11 tires, oil cooler, monster JPSS splitter/wickerbill, CAI, brake ducts.

03-18-2013, 08:00 PM	#17
SSSoon Drives: RY 2011 2SS A6 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 997	These are tube clamps. Both sides identical, the pieces slide together and then bolt in. In theory, a great idea. In practice, a bitch. They have to be exactly perfectly aligned to work. Am going to try beveling the edges by 5 thousandths to make installation and removal easier. Attached Images __________________ Dry sump LS7, cage, JPSS suspension, Wilwood brakes, fire suppression, ARH 3" headers/exhaust, Z/28 DSSV coilovers, Kirkey seats, TeamTech 6-point harnesses, 19" Forgeline GA3R, 325/30R19 Re11 tires, oil cooler, monster JPSS splitter/wickerbill, CAI, brake ducts.

03-21-2013, 10:25 AM	#23
SSSoon Drives: RY 2011 2SS A6 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 997	Beveling the tube clamps by even tiny amounts makes a huge difference in getting the bars in and out. But, once they are all the way in, they are locked solid. Really nice. It takes 2 minutes for 2 guys to pick up the bar, walk it into the car, place the rears, bang a bit with a rubber mallet to get all the way in, place the fronts, bang them in. Huge difference from before. A few minutes to thread in the bolts (2 per tube clamp) and it is ready to rock. I need to do some final fit and finish this weekend around the mounting plates and adjusting the angles on one of the post a bit, but this is close to done now. __________________ Dry sump LS7, cage, JPSS suspension, Wilwood brakes, fire suppression, ARH 3" headers/exhaust, Z/28 DSSV coilovers, Kirkey seats, TeamTech 6-point harnesses, 19" Forgeline GA3R, 325/30R19 Re11 tires, oil cooler, monster JPSS splitter/wickerbill, CAI, brake ducts.

04-07-2013, 03:33 PM	#24
SSSoon Drives: RY 2011 2SS A6 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 997	Back from vacation. Going to try to finish this project. Roll bars do not line up right on the rear fenders (angle is off) and so need to be either spaced out or cut and re-welded. Going to visit a local guy who builds race cars tomorrow so we can get this finalized. __________________ Dry sump LS7, cage, JPSS suspension, Wilwood brakes, fire suppression, ARH 3" headers/exhaust, Z/28 DSSV coilovers, Kirkey seats, TeamTech 6-point harnesses, 19" Forgeline GA3R, 325/30R19 Re11 tires, oil cooler, monster JPSS splitter/wickerbill, CAI, brake ducts.

03-18-2013, 08:51 PM	#18
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,544	Flex is not something I'd want on a bolt mounting location. Thats what allows a lateral shear load that could snap a bolt or increase the stress on the threads to the point of failure. I would have it rigid. Maybe its compressed enough it won't matter but when the whole point of the cage is safety I wouldn't compromise there. The clamps would be far easier to align if they weren't fully welded in until after mock-up but I guess that ship has sailed.

03-18-2013, 09:02 PM	#20
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,544	No I'm talking the rubber washers under the plate. Granted there's 4 bolts but the structural engineer in me says "Danger Will Robinson!" Over time any vibration/loosening could shear a bolt or the threads.

03-18-2013, 09:19 PM	#22
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,544	OK cool. Even something as random as the different expansion/contraction rates from temperature between rubber and steel could be enough to cause slack. Or the rubber degrading over time. Then vibration will slowly compromise the bolt threads or generate lateral point loads and you'd never notice until that oh shit moment when you need the cage and they snap. Steel on steel all the way with some loctite after final mockup. Any flex will introduce some bad ju-ju so if you need flex to make it work rethink the mounting method.

04-07-2013, 05:46 PM	#25
cornerspeed92 Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 View My Garage	Ever think about running http://www.sscc.us/ With that setup you could run the Grand sport cless with a tech(top speed)of 165 mph

04-07-2013, 06:51 PM	#27
cornerspeed92 Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 View My Garage	Sounds like super fun,good luck man i sure hope i can run VIR someday!