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Old 12-05-2018, 07:05 AM   #239
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what is the motive for the thousands of scientists, who say that our contribution to the climate change is threatening the planet, what is their motive to lie to us?
Liberal bias at the university level and the consequences - financial and other - of not falling in lock-step with those who see themselves as 'progressives'.

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Duarte et al show how liberal language and preoccupations have uncritically entered into the theoretical formulations and methods developed by some social psychologists that renders such research methodologically flawed. They also challenge studies which have sought to characterise conservative thinkers as more rigid in their thinking, arguing there is also evidence showing the opposite may be true and it is liberals who are prone to rigid and biased thinking.
https://www.open.edu/openlearn/peopl...ocial-sciences


I do think we need to consider environmental effects more like noise on top of climate as a signal than as an entity unto itself alone. Can we do better? almost certainly. Can anything we do fix it all? Extremely doubtful, short of causing a human-extinction-level event where it wouldn't matter to us anyway.


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Old 12-05-2018, 10:55 AM   #240
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I'll take global warming over global cooling any day. Are there any cold-houses that grow food or crops?....That is done in green-houses with artificially high temps....Populations have always been higher in warmer climates...

If you want to reduce the population around the world, just keep wishing for global cooling, which will eventually come with another ice-age or even a mini-ice-age....

One or two well placed asteroids, a few limited nuclear exchanges, a year or two of crop failures in the Mid West, pandemics and diseases from uncontrollable viruses...It won't take much, and can happen anytime in the near future....or never....but many scenarios leading to mass population deaths will likely occur long before any long range effects from any so-called man-made contributions to global warming occur. Man's time on this planet is but a blip of a few seconds over the billions of years of Earth's existence. No matter what happens, Earth will survive and everything may repeat, re-generate, and be re-born all over again...


The ultimate arrogance and tyranny is the belief that a few laws, rules and regulations, economic suppression and engineering of the masses is going to save the planet somehow..
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:16 AM   #241
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:37 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Doc View Post
? I didn't object to your post, I just replied to it.



The motive? Funding? Where do you get the "thousands of scientists" from?



So they say, because they've been studying the earth for millions of years, right?



You do know what comes up out of volcanoes, right? The north and south poles don't receive as much direct radiant energy, plus the fact that the earth's core is probably not a perfect sphere since it's molten and the earth is spinning. It's probably a bit wider than it is tall, just like the earth is. The earth isn't a perfect sphere either. The simple tilt of our earth as it spins can take us from summer to winter; from 100 degree + to below zero temps. Has nothing to do with us. There's also the fact that our earth doesn't rotate around the sun in a perfect circle, it's more of an oval so we have times when we're a bit closer, and a bit farther from the sun. All of this adds up to change; constant change. None of it has anything to do with us whatsoever.



That's a very misleading line: "...the vast majority of actively publishing climate scientists - 97 percent..." How many "actively publishing CLIMATE scientists are there? That's not all scientists, just a small group of a specific type, and only those who "actively publish", which is what? Nine out of ten? IF they could say a thousand leading scientists, they would. The way that's worded makes it look like the number is actually not very big, so they need to craft it in such a way as to make it appear overwhelming.

The United Nations is worthless as an authority of any kind about anything. Like NASA, they too need funding; desperately, and of course the deep pocket they all want to reach into is the United States. They want to buy our politicians so they can get legislation passed to force the transfer of great amounts of our wealth into their hands. This is having a direct impact on our automotive industry.

There's an old story about the Emperor's New Clothes that can give you a good insight into how things operate in these kinds of circles.

There's also this:

https://freebeacon.com/issues/alarmi...ed-math-error/

They always focus on CO2 as though that's the be-all end-all. I didn't specifically say CO2, I said "gases". Volcanic eruptions are the result of pressure from the core, which also causes seismic activity. We live on a floating crust wrapped around a raging molten core, and the majority of our crust is covered in water which is both a circulating cooling agent and functions like a giant heat sink. Volcanoes are a pressure release system, just like earthquakes are. The pressure is coming from the core. As they themselves acknowledged, a couple of volcanic eruptions pushed so much particulate into the atmosphere, that it caused cooling because it was blocking sunlight. Ever been in an eclipse? Isn't it amazing how you can feel the temperature drop as the moon blocks the sun? They speak of volcanic eruptions as though they're things that just happen. Volcanic eruptions, especially severe ones are signs of heat and pressure build-ups taking place in the core. We have absolutely ZERO effect on the earth's core.

Here's another link that discusses ocean warming:

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/n...ural-disasters



So that's it then, isn't it. The same groups who've been warning us for decades that we only have a few years to act or it's all over, (even though none of their predictions have even come close to being true) are all agreeing, so that must make it true! NOW we should let them take all our money!

Take note of what they ALWAYS want; money. Carbon tax, green tax, billions for research; Al Gore actually asked for 40 trillion!

Here's a few for you:

https://dailycaller.com/2017/11/29/s...-for-23-years/

http://www.remss.com/blog/faq-about-v40-tlt-update/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/...y-henry-payne/

https://realclimatescience.com/2017/...arctic-summer/

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/n...ence-concludes

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/n...ing-seem-worse

There are a lot of things you can read, but don't believe that the entire scientific community is in agreement on this; they aren't. When you see words like "everybody agrees", or things like that, ask the question: "Everybody who?" Everybody in the office of the article writer? Everybody in the breakroom? Everybody at the conference specifically set up for those who agree with a certain agenda? There are a lot of carefully worded statements that the authors probably know will easily be misread and/or misunderstood, which is why they're worded that way.

Remember: if you're looking for motive, follow the money. Don't look at what they say, look behind the curtain at what they do.
Which scientific organization that concurs with your opinion studied the climate a million years ago? right...nobody did, nobody studied astronomy a million years ago either.

The importance of NASA's clarification of "actively publishing" is that all those publications are peer reviewed.

I ask readers here not to take my word and go look for themselves. They have a choice, they can read, among many others, the climate website at NASA, (that liberal, elitist organization?), there are several tabs for Evidence, Causes, Effects, Scientific Consensus, Vital Signs, and Questions (FAQ) all with supported, peer reviewed sources...

or they can believe posters here at Camaro6.

If NASA and the 97% of the scientific community who actually study the Earth's climate (as opposed to other scientists that don't, and wouldn't be peer reviewing papers outside of their field) are wrong, then fantastic, we worried for nothing, and perhaps we end up with more solar panels, electric cars and wind mills. I really do hope those scientists and those who are in agreement with them, are worried for nothing, this is the best possible scenario. I hope they are wrong, I hope the at best, 3% of climate scientists are right that we have nothing to worry about, and the 97% are flat out crazy liberals only looking for the next funding grant.

If the 97% are right, then it is possible that our future generations will have to find another planet to live on. I really hope that my son and his children and on and on aren't faced with that reality.

You can read, or not, about the consensus on consensus here, and believe them or not, we are free to make our own choices.

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10...26/11/4/048002

Kind Regards to everyone here at Camaro6.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:46 AM   #243
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I unsubscribed from this. This ain't what I signed up for
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:10 PM   #244
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I unsubscribed from this. This ain't what I signed up for
I'm curious, had I not chimed in, would you have still unsubscribed?
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:25 PM   #245
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Probably because this thread is:

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Old 12-05-2018, 12:34 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Liberal bias at the university level and the consequences - financial and other - of not falling in lock-step with those who see themselves as 'progressives'.

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/peopl...ocial-sciences


I do think we need to consider environmental effects more like noise on top of climate as a signal than as an entity unto itself alone. Can we do better? almost certainly. Can anything we do fix it all? Extremely doubtful, short of causing a human-extinction-level event where it wouldn't matter to us anyway.


Norm
So very very true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
I'll take global warming over global cooling any day. Are there any cold-houses that grow food or crops?....That is done in green-houses with artificially high temps....Populations have always been higher in warmer climates...

If you want to reduce the population around the world, just keep wishing for global cooling, which will eventually come with another ice-age or even a mini-ice-age....

One or two well placed asteroids, a few limited nuclear exchanges, a year or two of crop failures in the Mid West, pandemics and diseases from uncontrollable viruses...It won't take much, and can happen anytime in the near future....or never....but many scenarios leading to mass population deaths will likely occur long before any long range effects from any so-called man-made contributions to global warming occur. Man's time on this planet is but a blip of a few seconds over the billions of years of Earth's existence. No matter what happens, Earth will survive and everything may repeat, re-generate, and be re-born all over again...


The ultimate arrogance and tyranny is the belief that a few laws, rules and regulations, economic suppression and engineering of the masses is going to save the planet somehow..
Yep. Good post.

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Originally Posted by ZED SLED View Post
Knowing my luck everyone on Earth will die except me and the Kardashians.
Bwaahahaaa Now THAT is funny!

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Originally Posted by spike III View Post
Yah but then you could go into the toilet paper business and really clean up with all them BIG butts.
It's a solid fact that the people who make comments are much funnier than any so-called professional comedian. For any article I read, the comments section is always my favorite.


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Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
Which scientific organization that concurs with your opinion studied the climate a million years ago? right...nobody did, nobody studied astronomy a million years ago either.
I didn't say they studied it a million years ago, my point was that the earth is so old, you'd have to be studying it FAR longer than a few piddly decades to make such grandiose claims about what's normal and what's alarming.

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Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
The importance of NASA's clarification of "actively publishing" is that all those publications are peer reviewed. I won't go into the importance of this aspect, I'm sure the readers here can find out why that is important.
Yes, "peer reviewed"... there couldn't POSSIBLY be any bias or ulterior motives for people in the same 'room' to agree with one of their own because that's how you get funding. The age of honor and integrity is long over. Everything is agenda based now.

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Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
I ask readers here not to take my word and go look for themselves. They have a choice, they can read, among many others, the climate website at NASA, (that liberal, elitist organization?), there are several tabs for Evidence, Causes, Effects, Scientific Consensus, Vital Signs, and Questions (FAQ) all with supported, peer reviewed sources...

or they can believe posters here at Camaro6.
Posters... like you maybe? Or me? Or anybody, maybe even someone from an organization? You think NASA is still a bunch of old white guys in lab coats? Times have changed my friend. I've actually had contact with NASA, the person who is in charge of the web media; Holly Shaftel.

Name:  Holly Shaftel.png
Views: 362
Size:  62.8 KB

You can decide whether that comes across as conservative or otherwise.

[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
If NASA and the 97% of the scientific community who actually study the Earth's climate (as opposed to other scientists that don't, you see, when scientists are peer reviewed, they are peer reviewed by other scientists in that particular field, a phycologist wouldn't be peer reviewing climate science - I'll verify this with the many Ph.D I work with) are wrong, then fantastic, we worried for nothing, and perhaps we end up with more solar panels, electric cars and wind mills. I really do hope those scientists and those who are in agreement with them, are worried for nothing, this is the best possible scenario.
They worded it very cunningly, so that unless you read it very carefully, you'd assume they're talking about 97% of the scientific community. It's actually 97% of the ACTIVELY publishing CLIMATE scientists. As I asked before, how many are actively publishing? 97% of what? Got a number? That's not the same as saying 97% of climate scientists, but it's very easy to misread that to think that's what it means.

What does peer reviewed mean anymore? Do you know that our legislators in D.C. often pass legislation without even reading it? How is it that "peer reviewed" climate change models were published as the gospel truth, until another scientist who wasn't one of their group caught a glaring math error on the very front page of their report? Peer reviewed doesn't mean what it used to because we no longer have a society that values honor and integrity the way we used to. We're at a point in our society where you almost have to question EVERYthing. The old X-Files tag line of "trust no one" is almost no joke anymore.

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Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
If they are right, then it is possible that our future generations will have to find another planet to live on. I really hope that my son and his children and on and on aren't faced with that reality.
There isn't another planet to live on; this is it. It's unique, as are all things in the universe.

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Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
You can read, or not, about the consensus on consensus here, and believe them or not, we are free to make our own choices.

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10...26/11/4/048002

Kind Regards to everyone here at Camaro6.
It's not just a matter of reading; in the information age we're in, there's so much information that finding something to read is not the issue. The issue is what does it contain, why was it written, what other factors are involved in the motive and source of the information.

All the old safeguards that helped us tell what could be trusted are pretty much gone now. People with no moral compass are attaining power at every level, and are seeking to basically take over the world. The strain between those trying to hold things together and those who are trying to take over the world is palpable. Either the barbarians at the gate succeed in battering down the gate and pillaging the city inside, or the gates hold and the city is saved. Your view on all this is going to depend on which side of the gate you're on. In their minds, both sides are equally righteous; both sides are "right"; both sides righteously view the other side as the 'enemy'; both sides can cite endless reasons to justify their attitudes and behavior. No amount of talk or web links is going to change anyone's view or opinion. That's just the way it is now, which is pretty much why nothing is being solved nor is it going to be solved.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch... what can GM do to survive? Their car sales are dismal. What can they do to fix that other than just abandon it, think SUV's and trucks are going to save them, and accept an even lower marketshare than they already have?
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:22 PM   #247
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Back to the original topic, this is quite disappointing. I know my wife is just one person, but she prefers the compact sedans over other cars. She has owned a Mazda 3 and two Ford Focus' and now when it comes time for her next car, she has no choices but to go foreign. She wasn't a fan of the 3 and has loved her Focus' and really enjoyed the Cruze we got as a rental once. With the fact that Dodge no longer makes the Dart, Ford killed the Focus, and now Chevy is killing the Cruze with no compact sedans replacing them, her only choice is to go to manufacturers she really doesn't want unless she changes her opinion on wanting something other than a compact sedan. I know she is just one person, but I imagine there are a lot like her, unfortunately there just weren't enough. I guess she just has to keep hope that a new compact sedan is introduced when she decides she wants a new car or the more likely she will have to look into other options that she just doesn't like.
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:33 PM   #248
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Back to the original topic, this is quite disappointing. I know my wife is just one person, but she prefers the compact sedans over other cars. She has owned a Mazda 3 and two Ford Focus' and now when it comes time for her next car, she has no choices but to go foreign. She wasn't a fan of the 3 and has loved her Focus' and really enjoyed the Cruze we got as a rental once. With the fact that Dodge no longer makes the Dart, Ford killed the Focus, and now Chevy is killing the Cruze with no compact sedans replacing them, her only choice is to go to manufacturers she really doesn't want unless she changes her opinion on wanting something other than a compact sedan. I know she is just one person, but I imagine there are a lot like her, unfortunately there just weren't enough. I guess she just has to keep hope that a new compact sedan is introduced when she decides she wants a new car or the more likely she will have to look into other options that she just doesn't like.

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Old 12-05-2018, 02:37 PM   #249
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I guess this is going to happen today...

http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...-ohio-senators


WASHINGTON — General Motors CEO Mary Barra is scheduled to meet Ohio senators Sherrod Brown and Robert Portman on Capitol Hill Wednesday afternoon to discuss the automakers' decision to idle four U.S. plants and potentially cut more than 14,000 salaried and hourly workers across the company.
Brown, a Democrat who won re-election last month, and Portman, a Republican, said in a statement they will press Barra to save the Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant, which currently assembles the Chevy Cruze sedan.

GM also announced it would cease production of the Buick LaCrosse, Chevy Volt, Cadillac CT6 and Chevy Impala at its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant during the first half of next year, as well as a plant in Ontario and powertrain facilities in Maryland and Michigan. It said the streamlining is necessary to align with falling consumer demand for sedans and to shift resources to electric and autonomous vehicle development.
"We have the best workers in the world in Ohio, and I'm proud of the workers at Lordstown," said Portman. "They have proven themselves time and again, and Sen. Brown and I will continue to fight on their behalf. I look forward to continuing our engagement with GM. I hope the company sees the incredible potential in this plant, by keeping it open and bringing other production back to the Valley."

GM's decision has met with strong criticism from lawmakers in Michigan and Ohio who say GM needs to protect its workers, who were not consulted in advance, after the company got a taxpayer bailout and union concessions to keep it afloat 10 years ago.

UAW President Gary Jones on Monday said the union will fight to keep the plants open. Under the existing contract, GM cannot close union-represented plants except under extreme circumstances and union leaders say a sales dip does not constitute an emergency.
"Today, we wrote to GM formally objecting to its unilateral decision regarding four U.S. manufacturing facilities. There are issues related to this and to collective bargaining that we cannot discuss in detail at this point," Jones said in a statement. "But UAW members across this country are committed to using every means available to us on behalf of our brothers and sisters at Lordstown, Hamtramck, Baltimore and Warren, MI. UAW members and U.S. taxpayers invested in GM during their darkest days. Now it is time for them to invest in us!"

GM has said line workers will have the opportunity to move to busier plants and left open the possibility that new models could still be substituted at the targeted factories, which some analysts consider a way to play off union locals against each other to gain concessions.

GM also plans after Jan. 1 to cut about 6,000 white-collar employees after 2,250 people with 12 years or more experience accepted buyouts. Spokesman Patrick Morrissey confirmed that the automaker will also be eliminating a quarter of its executive headcount.

Barra also is excepted to meet with members of the Michigan congressional delegation Wednesday or Thursday.

Meanwhile, Maryland's two U.S. senators, Ben Cardin and Chris Van Hollen, and four other members of Congress from the state wrote Barra on Friday asking her for a meeting about the company's plans to close a facility near Baltimore that received more than $100 million in federal subsidies.
"Closing a productive plant when GM has accepted significant public assistance and has reported healthy third-quarter profits of $2.5 billion is an example of extremely poor corporate citizenship," the lawmakers wrote.

GM is not the only automaker under the gun in Washington this week. On Tuesday, top executives from Volkswagen Group, Daimler AG and BMW AG will meet with Trump administration officials at the White House about potential tariffs on auto imports from Germany. President Trump has refrained from moving ahead on tariff threats against Europe under a truce between the European Union and the U.S. to hold wide-ranging talks to liberalize trans-Atlantic trade.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:53 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by lafountain View Post
Back to the original topic, this is quite disappointing. I know my wife is just one person, but she prefers the compact sedans over other cars. She has owned a Mazda 3 and two Ford Focus' and now when it comes time for her next car, she has no choices but to go foreign. She wasn't a fan of the 3 and has loved her Focus' and really enjoyed the Cruze we got as a rental once. With the fact that Dodge no longer makes the Dart, Ford killed the Focus, and now Chevy is killing the Cruze with no compact sedans replacing them, her only choice is to go to manufacturers she really doesn't want unless she changes her opinion on wanting something other than a compact sedan. I know she is just one person, but I imagine there are a lot like her, unfortunately there just weren't enough. I guess she just has to keep hope that a new compact sedan is introduced when she decides she wants a new car or the more likely she will have to look into other options that she just doesn't like.
Women represent a very large segment of the marketplace. I'm guessing your wife (probably like most women) doesn't hang out on an enthusiast's forum or voice her opinion on one. They don't care about Nurburgring lap times and probably don't even know what that is. They drive SUV's and trucks, but I see a lot of them in sedans; mostly BMW, Audi, Mercedes, or Japanese and Korean sedans. The market is there, it's just that GM and Ford don't seem to know how to make a product for them other than an SUV or truck. The second and third car purchase for a family is owned by the foreign car companies, and both GM and Ford have basically given up trying to reach it. It's crazy because they have all the advantages; they just don't seem to know how to use them.
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:12 PM   #251
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IGM also announced it would cease production of the Buick LaCrosse, Chevy Volt, Cadillac CT6 and Chevy Impala at its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant during the first half of next year, as well as a plant in Ontario and powertrain facilities in Maryland and Michigan. It said the streamlining is necessary to align with falling consumer demand for sedans and to shift resources to electric and autonomous vehicle development.
With the way advertising money appears to be currently allocated, GM is trying pretty damn hard on their end to make that happen.


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Old 12-05-2018, 09:26 PM   #252
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GM is dying, I just hope Ford goes first. FCA is one big recall away from drowning in red ink. Especially since they have been trying to sell Dodge, and no one wants it.
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