Are we giving up on the Z28?

[CC Performance]

Yes, we offer a 500+ hp LT1 as well.. good heads and 408 cubic inches will do that...

The Ls7 is not a good choice for an engine due to the material of the sleeves... they are prone to cracking.. other than that it would be a great choice but when you can lose a cylinder simply due to detonation.. its a drawback

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

A 475 hp Gen-5 "LT1" SBC making more power than a 505 hp LS7?! Huh?

Boosting an LS7: For those so inclined, Edelbrock seems to be doing a fine job with their E-Force kit, and "word on the street" is good among the Vette-set. Knowing your limits, and staying within them, is a good thing...

But "boost" is not something the diehard ZEE-fan seems to be seeking...give us a well-tuned n/a revver!...or we'd be all over the ZL1 ...

a 5.5L making 475, but why are we stuck on the base vette engine? thought I made it clear in previous posts that it should still be the z06 equivalent. meaning if the z06 gets a 6.2 (est. 600hp) then that's what the Z28 should get. maybe "detuned" 570hp.

yes about edelbrock. . .but how much boost are they pushing? 5-8 psi? if I were to ever put FI on I wouldn't push boost so little. go big or go home. still not a fan of the thin walls on the ls7 and never will be. 6.2 or less with many options to bore out or FI.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

Yes, we offer a 500+ hp LT1 as well..

The "LT1" I mention is the supposed GM designation for the next-Gen SBC, NOT to be confused (which it no doubt is/will be...) with the '92-'97 versions previously enjoyed by Y-F-B-bodies...

(BTW, we built a Vortech-'charged 383 LT1 with AFR heads that made 500rwhp...in a pump-gas street-driven '95 Formula...in 1996)

As to boost (again?!) on LS7s, I DID state, "Knowing your limits, and staying within them, is a good thing..."

This expectation of an n/a DI 6.2 making "estimated 600 hp": In most other engine application updates, DI optimistically adds 10-20% in OEM-warranted circumstances, while improving mpg and emissions. With 436 hp, the Vette's rating for an LS3 with dual-mode exhaust, 20% will get you to about 525...10% will get you to 480...a very l-o-n-g way from 600, without forced induction...

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The "LT1" I mention is the supposed GM designation for the next-Gen SBC, NOT to be confused (which it no doubt is/will be...) with the '92-'97 versions previously enjoyed by Y-F-B-bodies...

(BTW, we built a Vortech-'charged 383 LT1 with AFR heads that made 500rwhp...in a pump-gas street-driven '95 Formula...in 1996)

As to boost (again?!) on LS7s, I DID state, "Knowing your limits, and staying within them, is a good thing..."

This expectation of an n/a DI 6.2 making "estimated 600 hp": In most other engine application updates, DI optimistically adds 10-20% in OEM-warranted circumstances, while improving mpg and emissions. With 436 hp, the Vette's rating for an LS3 with dual-mode exhaust, 20% will get you to about 525...10% will get you to 480...a very l-o-n-g way from 600, without forced induction...

I'm sorry my math was off. 7.0 is closer to 580 for 15% (LLT vs LY7). with a 6.2 would be 501. which both had VVT on select models. VVT will net a little more increase.

I would still take a 6.2 pushing 501+ hp over the ls7. would net better mileage (better for racing more laps) and take kinder to mods. the argument for the ls7 is getting weaker since a vette mule is running around with presumably the Gen 5 v8 but C6 body on a C7 frame.

[LOWDOWN]

The problem with DI, and the attendant development (increased c.r. etc.) is the final results are NOT mod-friendly... Witness the LLT. STILL no FI aftermarket apps (save STS) in wide usage because the BoschBox in NOT readily mod-able. Yes, a piggyback tune is a possibility, but the LLT is NOT nearly as mod-friendly as the LS...because a deviance too far in tuning in any direction, with high static compression, results in expen$ive paperweights...

Do NOT expect easy modding of the coming Gen-5 SBC...think LLT "locked-box"...

[CC Performance]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

(BTW, we built a Vortech-'charged 383 LT1 with AFR heads that made 500rwhp...in a pump-gas street-driven '95 Formula...in 1996)

Ours is n/a on 91 octane but yeah has nothing to do with this..LOL

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The problem with DI, and the attendant development (increased c.r. etc.) is the final results are NOT mod-friendly... Witness the LLT. STILL no FI aftermarket apps (save STS) in wide usage because the BoschBox in NOT readily mod-able. Yes, a piggyback tune is a possibility, but the LLT is NOT nearly as mod-friendly as the LS...because a deviance too far in tuning in any direction, with high static compression, results in expen$ive paperweights...

Do NOT expect easy modding of the coming Gen-5 SBC...think LLT "locked-box"...

there will always be a learning curve, and this 2 shall pass. I Expect simple modding to take well to it. LT headers, a cam etc. and eventually some good uncanned tunes.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

there will always be a learning curve, and this 2 shall pass. I Expect simple modding to take well to it. LT headers, a cam etc. and eventually some good uncanned tunes.

The LLT has been around in the CTS longer than the Camaro...about 4-years worth...and STILL no one has properly broken into the BoschBox.

IF that sort of "sealed" ECM technology is used on the next-Gen SBC, the plethora of mods now happening to the LS may NOT arrive, without GM sanction.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The LLT has been around in the CTS longer than the Camaro...about 4-years worth...and STILL no one has properly broken into the BoschBox.

IF that sort of "sealed" ECM technology is used on the next-Gen SBC, the plethora of mods now happening to the LS may NOT arrive, without GM sanction.

all we need is a good hacker to take notice, or a replacement ECM to arrive. the LLT probably (speculating) isn't as focused on as a more main stream performance engine would be. I am not worried about such a thing for the next gen vette will push it into the lime light for modifying. More aftermarket tuners will be focused on modifying a v-8 vette vs a v-6 cts/camaro.


just a heads up I will be headed back state side soon. So all this talk about a Gen V motor being a better choice from me will probably end soon enough. meaning you will win the argument by default. I have little time to get on forums when I have more important things to be doing; like working ,riding my bike, selling a house and family. but I will still hold the same belief and feeling about a Gen V v8 in a z28. Timing couldn't be so close. if the ZL1 was out now and we started seeing z28 test mules I would consed to your thought process, but timing seems to be more on my side right now. at least how I view it. once my credit card debt is paid and truck paid off I will then have funds to purchase a Z28 (if already released or about to be released). My love for this car is too much to pass it up even with the thin walled ls7. I know GM will make it a screamer on the track, and that's all I really want.

until then I enjoy talking all things Z and arguing points with limited knowledge of things to come.

[tomsws6]

Im not really sure why everyone is hating on the ls7 saying that it isnt durable. The ls7 is a very durable engine with people tracking the ls7 overy week with out any problems. The most known problem , at least on the vette forums, are a few of them dropping valves. And to have a handful of motors have an issue out of thousands is pretty decent. The only reason we really hear about it is because its a 70k car. People have been throwing FI on the ls7 for years with out issues. As long as you stay with in its means you shouldnt have an issue just like any other motor out there. Its just like you dont go throwing 12psi into a stock lt1 and expect it to last forever running it at the track every night. Dont skimp on the tune and have someone that knows what there doing on an ls7. And heritage wise I believe the LS7 would foot the bill as a high reving high horsepower v8 just like the old DZ motor

[CC Performance]

reason being is that if you have an issue and get some detonation.. it could cost you the block where an other engine would not crack a sleeve over it.. its a good engine but the sleeve material choice was perhaps not the best

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

reason being is that if you have an issue and get some detonation.. it could cost you the block where an other engine would not crack a sleeve over it.. its a good engine but the sleeve material choice was perhaps not the best

To my knowledge, the above scenario is virtually limited to over-boosted and/or poorly-tuned examples, NOT those with a "factory tune" that haven't suffered "abuse". I have personally witnessed two LS7 failures...BOTH attributable to modding with improper "tuning"...

Anytime you go outside of GM's parameters, you venture into "uncharted waters"...at your peril...with ANY engine... There's more than a few blowed-up LS3s out there...

[CC Performance]

You can put your money where ever you want... it makes no matter to me

the cracking issue is there... and yes ..... sometimes things like bad gas causes detonation... most cars run pump gas.... so detonation does happen.. .. its unsupported at the top and prone to cracking.. the severe cases using FI are splitting the sleeve top to bottom... but this is a typical crack....



as far as the LS3 losing the block its due the the piston coming apart and the rod taking out the cylinder wall more often than not and that is due to detonation as well..... which can be caused by bad gas...

yes there are risks when playing the game but there are more risks with some combinations than others... if you know there could be an issue then why mess with it.. relying things being pefect that you dont control like octane is not something we do

[boxmonkeyracing]

say hello to someone that blew up an ls1 about 3 years ago now. hand held tuner and open headers don't mix well. detonated a piston and the rod destroyed the wall along with the crank and piston destroying all the channels. block un-salvageable.

Your point is you have to stay with in it's means. and my point is it's means are too tight. I want the option to bore out and get bigger later on. give me 500 hp in a 6.2 that I can bore and stroke later on when I decide to upgrade the internals. with the ls7 I'm limited drastically on my options. best base possible not best base right this second.

earliest I see a z28 hitting the streets is 1 year from the zl1. and that would give a GenV v-8 a good chance of being under the hood. since the vettes test mules are running around now.

the ls7 hasn't been extended for production, yet. which could mean a couple things. they extend it to put it into the z28, while the z06 gets upgraded to a new genV engine and built on the same line. they discontinue the ls7 and produce a GenV for the vette and a possible Z28. I see the last thing happening. a specialized z06 motor still being produced there pushing at least 550hp in the z06 but going off the last two generations the bump would be to 605 hp. so the 7.0 would still be around and the new 427 SBC would have DI and VVT.