Cooling System Pressure > 24H after last run - Page 4 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

HDRDTD · 11-20-2017, 10:40 AM

FYI, A friend of mine was having issues with his LS3 (I don't remember the original symptoms), and had a shop tear down his engine I believe to originally do a cam swap.
What they found was a big surprise, the top corner of one of the front cylinders had developed a hole on the cylinder wall.
In the end, they surmised that his cooling system had developed an air bubble in the water jacket around that cylinder which led to no cooling of the cylinder wall where the air pocket was resulting in the cylinder wall failure.

JOURDAN · 11-20-2017, 12:41 PM

Over the last 6 months, I feel I've have read every bit of information out there regarding automotive cooling systems as it relates to coolant reservoir, recovery, overflow systems closed and vented.

I found very little information that was helpful in understanding how these systems work IN REAL LIFE and how active they are and the volumes transferred.

First, Coolant Expansion: CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion)

Calculating CTE, you will find its an exact science and the only variable is slight difference between water vs coolant, for argument sake they are the same CTE. Besides coolant is 50% water anyway.

Our coolant systems holds 11.7 quarts. For every 100 degree rise celsius.

T(ºF) = 100ºC × 9/5 + 32 = 212ºF

The coolant will expand 7% this equals roughly .800 quarts @ 212 degree F

Second, Volume transfer and frequency:

Its exciting to finally see it working. What I found was its transferring fluid back and forth anytime the pressure changes.

This happens like a bell curve.

Cold..........................................Hot. .............................................Cold
1.....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....9... .8....7...6...5...4....3....2...........1

the numbers represent the amount of coolant transfer vs temperature.

christianchevell · 11-20-2017, 05:28 PM

People often think the radiator fluid has to be changed because it does not keep the engine protected from heat ;but mostly freezing also.....but the fact is over time the radiator fluid becomes acidic also and can pit metals that are softer worse like aluminum so to everyone I would recommend testing your radiator fluid to keep it from attacking your engine, and using a litmus test literally for the acidity not just using a bulb that floats balls showing the cold protection factor of the coolant.

I am a old motorhead; to me about three to five at most years or so and its drained I used to always use aftermarket intakes and such with my chevys and when you would take them off pitting occurred where the block off of the intake contacted the heads and around the crossover where radiator fluid flows between sides of the engine through the manifold.

Though the pitting was bad it usually did not ruin the other sealing areas of the intake if the fluid was fairly regularly changed avoiding acidity.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...luid&FORM=IGRE

Glad you found your air was able to dissipate and the vacuum leaks........

JD555 · 11-21-2017, 07:47 AM

I check my coolant with a volt meter. Set to low range and dip one lead in the radiator and the other to grd. When I see voltage around .25V I change the fluid. Acid builds up and will act like a electrolyte. The dissimilar metals with the acid will start electrolysis.

Spurshot · 11-21-2017, 07:59 AM

Jourdan, off topic a bit for our Camaros, but our cars have a common recovery system, where the pressure cap is on the radiator and the tank is at ambient pressure. On my 2000 GMC, the pressure cap was on the tank, with the tank plumbed in directly with a Y connector in the heater hose, and no cap at all on the radiator. Frankly, I don't recall for my 2008 Silverado. I think my current 2014 Sierra has pressure in the tank as well.

mario01 · 11-21-2017, 01:50 PM

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

gringo · 11-22-2017, 07:32 PM

When I service a cooling system, I usually like to drill two small holes in the metal retainer of the thermostat. It's an old trick to help purge the system of air when changing the coolant/thermostat. And, it also keeps the system from seeing large temp swings just before the thermostat opens.

DonM · 11-23-2017, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringo

When I service a cooling system, I usually like to drill two small holes in the metal retainer of the thermostat. It's an old trick to help purge the system of air when changing the coolant/thermostat. And, it also keeps the system from seeing large temp swings just before the thermostat opens.

You just dated yourself ... that's an old school trick

Spurshot · 11-24-2017, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringo

When I service a cooling system, I usually like to drill two small holes in the metal retainer of the thermostat. It's an old trick to help purge the system of air when changing the coolant/thermostat. And, it also keeps the system from seeing large temp swings just before the thermostat opens.

This is standard on the EMP Stewart thermostats

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/ind...tegory&path=61

JOURDAN · 11-25-2017, 08:44 PM

Firstly, for me, its extremely important poor information does not get propagated.

At the end of the day, this has been a complex and exasperating exercise.

It has tricked me at times.... I am a professional technician. :(

My driver side head gasket is blown at rear near firewall. It holds pressure most of the time. It leaks just a minuscule amount

It leaks External. Oil is clean, coolant is clean. Some very small amount of combustion gasses maybe getting into coolant system at HIGH RPM's

This is the REAL reason my coolant wont transfer back

This is the list of coolant issues I discovered in the 6 months I have owned this project car.

#1 Heater core coolant leak > Replaced
#2 Oil cooler coolant leak > Deleted > system finally pressurized after these two repairs.
#3 Thermostat sticking closed > replaced > corrected heat spike for no reason.
#4 Blown head gasket >

Anyway, I'm going to tear down engine next week, install cam, springs, lifters, and gaskets. Mill heads if needed

Thanks for the sounding board.

Willie

christianchevell · 11-26-2017, 07:16 AM

The rear of the heads as with a lot of engine is where the heat likes to build up. Good Luck and don't forget to order new lifter baskets and some new TTY bolts for the heads and why not step up to ls9 gaskets for the heads....

InFiD3ViL · 11-26-2017, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christianchevell

The rear of the heads as with a lot of engine is where the heat likes to build up. Good Luck and don't forget to order new lifter baskets and some new TTY bolts for the heads and why not step up to ls9 gaskets for the heads....

Christian, what is the advantage to the LS9 head gaskets? I ask because very soon I intend to do some work on my L99. Going to do a DOD delete and cam kit.

Spurshot · 11-26-2017, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOURDAN

Firstly, for me, its extremely important poor information does not get propagated.

At the end of the day, this has been a complex and exasperating exercise.

It has tricked me at times.... I am a professional technician. :(

My driver side head gasket is blown at rear near firewall. It holds pressure most of the time. It leaks just a minuscule amount

It leaks External. Oil is clean, coolant is clean. Some very small amount of combustion gasses maybe getting into coolant system at HIGH RPM's

This is the REAL reason my coolant wont transfer back

This is the list of coolant issues I discovered in the 6 months I have owned this project car.

#1 Heater core coolant leak > Replaced
#2 Oil cooler coolant leak > Deleted > system finally pressurized after these two repairs.
#3 Thermostat sticking closed > replaced > corrected heat spike for no reason.
#4 Blown head gasket >

Anyway, I'm going to tear down engine next week, install cam, springs, lifters, and gaskets. Mill heads if needed

Thanks for the sounding board.

Willie

Willie,
Wow! What an experience! Thanks for sharing this. I bet you're thread will help someone down the road. I'm wondering if the combustion by-products in the coolant are responsible for the hose deterioration? Maybe some reactive chemistry with the Dex?

JOURDAN · 11-26-2017, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurshot

Willie,
Wow! What an experience! Thanks for sharing this. I bet you're thread will help someone down the road. I'm wondering if the combustion by-products in the coolant are responsible for the hose deterioration? Maybe some reactive chemistry with the Dex?

Something unknown to me has caused accelerated break down of my cooling system. Who knows what this car went through before me?? It was not good.

I just discovered if if has a Blue > FELPRO head gasket on passenger side so OMG, someone has been in here before!!!!!!! And they were a a MESS MAKER

OH well... I will make it perfect. Thank God the rest of the car is OK.
All tags are dated correctly, never been in a major accident. So it will be a good car for me once completed.

11-20-2017, 12:41 PM	#44
JOURDAN Drives: 2010 Camaro SS 2SS Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Oregon Posts: 145	Important Informtion Over the last 6 months, I feel I've have read every bit of information out there regarding automotive cooling systems as it relates to coolant reservoir, recovery, overflow systems closed and vented. I found very little information that was helpful in understanding how these systems work IN REAL LIFE and how active they are and the volumes transferred. First, Coolant Expansion: CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion) Calculating CTE, you will find its an exact science and the only variable is slight difference between water vs coolant, for argument sake they are the same CTE. Besides coolant is 50% water anyway. Our coolant systems holds 11.7 quarts. For every 100 degree rise celsius. T(ºF) = 100ºC × 9/5 + 32 = 212ºF The coolant will expand 7% this equals roughly .800 quarts @ 212 degree F Second, Volume transfer and frequency: Its exciting to finally see it working. What I found was its transferring fluid back and forth anytime the pressure changes. This happens like a bell curve. Cold..........................................Hot. .............................................Cold 1.....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....9... .8....7...6...5...4....3....2...........1 the numbers represent the amount of coolant transfer vs temperature. Last edited by JOURDAN; 11-20-2017 at 10:56 PM.

11-20-2017, 05:28 PM	#45
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,588 View My Garage	People often think the radiator fluid has to be changed because it does not keep the engine protected from heat ;but mostly freezing also.....but the fact is over time the radiator fluid becomes acidic also and can pit metals that are softer worse like aluminum so to everyone I would recommend testing your radiator fluid to keep it from attacking your engine, and using a litmus test literally for the acidity not just using a bulb that floats balls showing the cold protection factor of the coolant. I am a old motorhead; to me about three to five at most years or so and its drained I used to always use aftermarket intakes and such with my chevys and when you would take them off pitting occurred where the block off of the intake contacted the heads and around the crossover where radiator fluid flows between sides of the engine through the manifold. Though the pitting was bad it usually did not ruin the other sealing areas of the intake if the fluid was fairly regularly changed avoiding acidity. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...luid&FORM=IGRE Glad you found your air was able to dissipate and the vacuum leaks........ __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

11-21-2017, 07:59 AM	#47
Spurshot Drives: 2014 2SS blue Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Socal Posts: 689	Jourdan, off topic a bit for our Camaros, but our cars have a common recovery system, where the pressure cap is on the radiator and the tank is at ambient pressure. On my 2000 GMC, the pressure cap was on the tank, with the tank plumbed in directly with a Y connector in the heater hose, and no cap at all on the radiator. Frankly, I don't recall for my 2008 Silverado. I think my current 2014 Sierra has pressure in the tank as well. __________________

11-25-2017, 08:44 PM	#52
JOURDAN Drives: 2010 Camaro SS 2SS Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Oregon Posts: 145	update Firstly, for me, its extremely important poor information does not get propagated. At the end of the day, this has been a complex and exasperating exercise. It has tricked me at times.... I am a professional technician. :( My driver side head gasket is blown at rear near firewall. It holds pressure most of the time. It leaks just a minuscule amount It leaks External. Oil is clean, coolant is clean. Some very small amount of combustion gasses maybe getting into coolant system at HIGH RPM's This is the REAL reason my coolant wont transfer back This is the list of coolant issues I discovered in the 6 months I have owned this project car. #1 Heater core coolant leak > Replaced #2 Oil cooler coolant leak > Deleted > system finally pressurized after these two repairs. #3 Thermostat sticking closed > replaced > corrected heat spike for no reason. #4 Blown head gasket > Anyway, I'm going to tear down engine next week, install cam, springs, lifters, and gaskets. Mill heads if needed Thanks for the sounding board. Willie

11-26-2017, 07:16 AM	#53
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,588 View My Garage	The rear of the heads as with a lot of engine is where the heat likes to build up. Good Luck and don't forget to order new lifter baskets and some new TTY bolts for the heads and why not step up to ls9 gaskets for the heads.... __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

11-20-2017, 10:40 AM	#43
HDRDTD Drives: 2013 Triple Black ZL1 Vert M6 ECF Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Trenton, Michigan Posts: 7,047	FYI, A friend of mine was having issues with his LS3 (I don't remember the original symptoms), and had a shop tear down his engine I believe to originally do a cam swap. What they found was a big surprise, the top corner of one of the front cylinders had developed a hole on the cylinder wall. In the end, they surmised that his cooling system had developed an air bubble in the water jacket around that cylinder which led to no cooling of the cylinder wall where the air pocket was resulting in the cylinder wall failure.

11-21-2017, 07:47 AM	#46
JD555 Drives: 2014 2SS RS, 6 sp man Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Marlton, NJ Posts: 461	I check my coolant with a volt meter. Set to low range and dip one lead in the radiator and the other to grd. When I see voltage around .25V I change the fluid. Acid builds up and will act like a electrolyte. The dissimilar metals with the acid will start electrolysis.

11-21-2017, 01:50 PM	#48
mario01 Drives: m5 Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: ohio Posts: 2	subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

11-22-2017, 07:32 PM	#49
gringo Account Suspended Drives: Camaro V6 Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: U.S. Posts: 1,722	When I service a cooling system, I usually like to drill two small holes in the metal retainer of the thermostat. It's an old trick to help purge the system of air when changing the coolant/thermostat. And, it also keeps the system from seeing large temp swings just before the thermostat opens.