Learning about the 4th gen

[Da2ss]

Originally Posted by lbls1

600 HP is the max as I've seen with the 4th gen stock block. A lot of guys have migrated to 408s and/or the iron blocks from the vortex truck motors.

The 4th gens are lightweight (relatively), have stout suspensions and can be very quick with modest power. 4th gens are also no slouches at the autocross. Typically if you intend to do a lot of racing or autocross, you want to install sub frame connectors. From there, you have a lot of choices in terms of mods, parts and accessories.

And after driving this trans am stock for a while I can see how 600 would definitly be plenty...If i need more than that i got my eye on a thompson motorsports short block I should be able to hit high 500 on spray after i decide on the cam i want

[camarodude87]

I wouldn't say that they are easier to work on. Pulling a motor sucks ass

[Da2ss]

Originally Posted by camarodude87

I wouldn't say that they are easier to work on. Pulling a motor sucks ass

Definitly not easier to work on...I just changed plugs and wire and felt it was a major accomplishent lol

[chuckie669]

I learned how to properly use a swivel and extension on number 8.

[Da2ss]

Originally Posted by chuckie669

I learned how to properly use a swivel and extension on number 8.

I have a spark plug socket with a swivel on it but found it easier to use a 3" extension and regular socket got it done with only a few scratches... the reason i was changing plugs is because old acdelco were about .60 gap installed new tr6 plugs at .35 i think i hear detonation new plugs didnt change it did seafoam thru the intake and still have it now running a tank of fuel with seafoam still hear something under load after about half tank of treated fuel...Im waiting to do headeres and dual exhaust until I have this figured out but untill then what kind of suspension mods are you guys doing for performance and to get rid of all the squeaks and bumps my car is pretty rough

[JackLS1R1]

Originally Posted by Da2ss

Just started reading forums So far it seem to take way less power to be fast in these cars vs 5th gen also seems like factory stock bottom ends can't hold what my ls3 can I'm hearing about 550 is max for just about all older and less cubic inch motors (ls1 ls2 lq4/9) and iron block really isn't necessary So my initial idea of a big power 4th gen would have been 6-700 hp turbo car can be lowered down to 500 and still be fast and reliable there's tons of engine choices where should I start my journey

OP are you looking to do a stick or auto? Regardless, weak point of the 3rd and 4th gens is the rear axle. Stock power on an LS1 4th gen M6 with sticky tires will break the weak rear end. Autos will handle more power, but both will not hold past the 11 second range reliably. The 5th gen SS rear end with an auto can run in the 10s. A rear axle upgrade for the 4th gen will cost you $1900+ for a spool or $2400+ for a posi - These stronger rear ends weigh a lot and you will feel the added weight at the back of the car.

So, make sure you have this factored in before you make the big power

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by lbls1

600 HP is the max as I've seen with the 4th gen stock block. A lot of guys have migrated to 408s and/or the iron blocks from the vortex truck motors.

The 4th gens are lightweight (relatively), have stout suspensions and can be very quick with modest power. 4th gens are also no slouches at the autocross. Typically if you intend to do a lot of racing or autocross, you want to install sub frame connectors. From there, you have a lot of choices in terms of mods, parts and accessories.

I've seen people pushing the stock block to over 600 at the crank. Didn't last too long but it made the number lol
Sub frames will put you in a higher class against cars you won't stand much of a chance against without further suspension upgrades, tires and some more power.

Originally Posted by Da2ss

Definitly not easier to work on...I just changed plugs and wire and felt it was a major accomplishent lol

Do it enough and you can get them done in 45 minutes also helps to remove the AIR injection from the exhaust manifolds entirely.

[Da2ss]

what do you guys think about the qa1 suspension packages...what level for a street car and a few passes

[bayarea408]

i own both...02 45 anniv Z28 with bolton's and a 2010 SS with a turbo.

The Fbody is a easier car to build for 60' ft drag style racing. The geometry and solid rear end call for old suspension formula's that plain out work.

The 5th gen is a better car all around...faster, handles well, more plush, better interior.

As far as working on the car a 4th gen is harder to deal with. The engine is SUPER snug in there.


After 12 second time slips things get much more pricey for 4th gen's.

If you are building a auto car the 4l60e is not going to live long drag racing, this is going to need to be built or swapped to a 80e.

The 10 bolt rear end SUCKS. if you plan to 60 ft anything half descent with tires it will not live.

Its about 300 lb's lighter comparing them together full interior.

I kinda feel like my 4th gen is at a sweet spot with full bolton's a tune some good tires and weight reduction. Any more money towards it seems silly, but selling it, just cant part ways considering what its worth.

my 4th gen sits on Koni yellow adjustable all 4 corners on H&R sport springs. Ran a 315 Vredestein Ultrac on the street she hooks up good.

[PeteD]

As many have stated on here. The 4th gen is the sweet spot and most can not part with them. Myself included. As you can tell from the photos, I own both.

My 4th gen is a 1993 Z28. Full MSD ignition, K&N cold air, High flow cat, Stock manifold, Flowmaster muffler with 3 inch pipes all the way back. Rockingham NC Dragway recorded my best time with this setup at 12.8. With it from the factory having 325hp.

Going by R&T and Motor Trend my 5th gen is supposed to run a 13.1 with 436hp in stock trim. I have not run it yet but it does have Flowmaster shorty headers, Pype's Pype Bomb exhaust and a K&N cold air intake.

I have always said that the auto makers work hand in hand with the insurance people to "keep us safe" as they put it. The heavier the car, the more HP they put in it to keep it at a certain speed. That is why the new ZL1 is controlled to go no faster than a 1.7 60 foot time. Oh well

But as many have stated, if you want real big power, the bottom end is too weak for long term abuse. It will handle it but, for only a matter of time. Best to sap it out at the beginning and save some time, money and, frustration at the end

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by bayarea408

i own both...02 45 anniv Z28 with bolton's and a 2010 SS with a turbo.

The Fbody is a easier car to build for 60' ft drag style racing. The geometry and solid rear end call for old suspension formula's that plain out work.

The 5th gen is a better car all around...faster, handles well, more plush, better interior.

As far as working on the car a 4th gen is harder to deal with. The engine is SUPER snug in there.


After 12 second time slips things get much more pricey for 4th gen's.

If you are building a auto car the 4l60e is not going to live long drag racing, this is going to need to be built or swapped to a 80e.

The 10 bolt rear end SUCKS. if you plan to 60 ft anything half descent with tires it will not live.

Its about 300 lb's lighter comparing them together full interior.

I kinda feel like my 4th gen is at a sweet spot with full bolton's a tune some good tires and weight reduction. Any more money towards it seems silly, but selling it, just cant part ways considering what its worth.

my 4th gen sits on Koni yellow adjustable all 4 corners on H&R sport springs. Ran a 315 Vredestein Ultrac on the street she hooks up good.

2002 was the 35th, 2012 was the 45th. Can't say I agree with you on the 5th gen interior in general being better. The 10-12 looks cheap as shit compared to a 13-15. Considering my 4th gen SS weighs 3500lbs, it doesn't feel like a boat in turns like my 06 GTO did . . . and the GTO was slightly lighter than a 5th gen. The 4l60 sucks when it comes to racing, but a 4l65 does just fine. Mine is on Bilsteins and Strano Coils, handles great so far!

[acammer]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

2002 was the 35th, 2012 was the 45th. Can't say I agree with you on the 5th gen interior in general being better. The 10-12 looks cheap as shit compared to a 13-15. Considering my 4th gen SS weighs 3500lbs, it doesn't feel like a boat in turns like my 06 GTO did . . . and the GTO was slightly lighter than a 5th gen. The 4l60 sucks when it comes to racing, but a 4l65 does just fine. Mine is on Bilsteins and Strano Coils, handles great so far!

I had to go look that up - the 4L65. Pretty neat, I didn't even know there was a beefed up version of the 4L60. Too bad they didn't use that in all the 4L applications.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by acammer

I had to go look that up - the 4L65. Pretty neat, I didn't even know there was a beefed up version of the 4L60. Too bad they didn't use that in all the 4L applications.

My car originally came with a 4l60 but I had a built 4l65 put in it last year and this thing shifts wonderfully. But at stock HP/TQ I'm not putting it through what it was meant to handle. I'd love to get into autoX or roadrace but I don't have much free time anymore, I might just go for the carshow route. Swapping to a t56 would be fun either way.

[bayarea408]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

2002 was the 35th, 2012 was the 45th. Can't say I agree with you on the 5th gen interior in general being better. The 10-12 looks cheap as shit compared to a 13-15. Considering my 4th gen SS weighs 3500lbs, it doesn't feel like a boat in turns like my 06 GTO did . . . and the GTO was slightly lighter than a 5th gen. The 4l60 sucks when it comes to racing, but a 4l65 does just fine. Mine is on Bilsteins and Strano Coils, handles great so far!

Typo i ment 35th. My 10 2SS / RS leather interior its miles better then any 4th gen, im sure MANY will back me up on that. You may have glanced into a base V6 model and i agree my allergies acting up just looking inside how fuzzy they are. 13-15 interior is the same minus the tacky leather dash inserts and a suv parts box steering wheel, 2 pieces of grey faux leather hardly separates it from the pack. 4L60 and 4L65 both equally suck if you taste any type of boost, the 65 is just a truck variant of the same 60 trans. TH / 80e or bust for auto's. 6l90 ZL1 / cts v is nice but hard to get ahold of a real rebuild and not a truck core.

Im surprised the GTO felt like a boat compared to the 4th. I never driven a GTO but they look sweet, THOSE interiors i enjoy, advanced for their time in muscle car era.