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Old 09-26-2012, 12:27 PM   #99
strych9
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Originally Posted by Lou_Dorchen View Post
New Hampshire still doesn't mandate seat belt usage. Just a few years ago it passed their House, but was voted down in their Senate. So I guess it's not just a few crackpots like myself who are against them.
With all due respect, you just don't get it. Okay, I get that you've acknowledged that seat belts save lives. You just don't want THE MAN to tell you that you have to. Protection of personal freedoms and all that. Yeah, I get it.

We have a seat belt law in Nebraska. It didn't keep my employee from putting himself and others in the hospital a couple of weeks ago, directly caused by his ignorance in observing that law.

He was rushing to work because he was running late. He was driving dangerously. He lost control of his Trailblazer when a car in front of him slammed on the brakes in rush-hour traffic. He went for the shoulder to avoid it, lost control of his vehicle, slammed into the concrete divider and got ejected from his passenger window.

He landed in the third lane of the interstate. His vehicle continued on without him in it, crashing into a total of 5 other cars, one of which was a pickup driven by another company employee, which then flipped upside-down and injured him, also.

This 52 y/o man may not walk again. They had to pin his legs back together. This injury in addition to head trauma, and broken ribs.

This man called me today. He broke down crying over the guilt and stupidity he feels as he was telling me that they are releasing him from the hospital on Friday. He has weeks of physical therapy ahead of him. Lost income. Trouble with the law.

Is that what your freedom represents? This one hits too close to home. I'm reminded of it each day when I walk past his empty cubicle. He told me that the police had said that 90% of all ejections end in death. 90%.

Read about this incident here: http://www.ketv.com/news/local-news/...z/-/index.html

Personally, I've been in two crashes that would have injured or killed me had I not been belted in. See the "totaled" next to the 2003 Mustang in my signature? Head on from a guy turning left, blinded by the sun. He was belted into his Camry, and both walked away uninjured. I hit him @ 50 MPH. Picture below.

Seat belt laws are good laws. It helps guys like me win in court when guys like you fail to obey a law because you don't know what's good for you.

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Old 09-26-2012, 12:41 PM   #100
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Yes, it is about your liberties. It's YOUR car. YOU paid for it, YOU pay to insure it, YOU buy the gas for it, and it was YOUR labor that earned the money to pay for those things. So YOU should decide whether you want to wear your seat belt or not in YOUR car.
But if you actually read his example, YOUR liberties END when they INFRINGE upon SOMEONE ELSE's liberties. And I'd say the needless death of two children is a definite infringement upon someone else's liberties.

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Old 09-26-2012, 01:05 PM   #101
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Drunk drivers kill and maim alot more innocent people than examples like this. So we should ban alcohol, right?

By this logic we should also outlaw helmets on motorcycle riders for the public's safety. You see, if they get launched after a wreck they are more dangerous to others by wearing a helmet than by not wearing a helmet.

FYI, I myself survived a wreck years ago and I had no seatbelt on. The car only had lap belts anyway, so I chose not to wear them. I did over $2k in damage to my car (in 1993 dollars) and walked away with just a little bump on my head from hitting the shifter.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #102
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See, I can use the shift key too
You also have the added advantage of not having your posts deleted.

I'm not sure why my link about gun violence statistics was removed after someone asked me to post statisitcs backing up my arguments.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:21 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Lou_Dorchen View Post
Yes, it is about your liberties. It's YOUR car. YOU paid for it, YOU pay to insure it, YOU buy the gas for it, and it was YOUR labor that earned the money to pay for those things. So YOU should decide whether you want to wear your seat belt or not in YOUR car.
I've ignored this thread up until now because I can't why would someone would be against wearing a seat belt. Let alone think it was a government conspiracy.

My grandpa (rest in piece) started smoking cigarettes when he was 7. SEVEN years old, and he chain smoked until he died of stage 4 lung cancer. Yes, even after the cancer he didn't stop. Nowadays we know that cigarettes and smoking are bad for you and what they do to your body. So as a PRECAUTIONARY measure people under 18 can't buy cigarettes.

Are we stepping on our children's freedom with this law? Is "Big Brother" trying to brainwash them into thinking smoking can kill you? Or are we trying to protect them?


Off the record, and in my humble opinion - everyone that chooses to not wear a seatbelt should experience a head on collision at 45 MPH. After you go through windshield you can tell me how cool it is to not wear your seatbelt.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:25 PM   #104
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You also have the added advantage of not having your posts deleted.

I'm not sure why my link about gun violence statistics was removed after someone asked me to post statisitcs backing up my arguments.
Cause you started getting political. Now you're fringing on thread bashing. The theme of the thread is "Wear your seatbelt". Not "No one's gonna tell me what to do".

6) Off-Limit Discussions — There are a few topics for which we have zero tolerance policy based on past experience or simply the nature of the topic. They are: Politics (automotive-related regulations discussions are allowed), Religion, Pornography, Law Enforcement-Bashing, and Street Racing. Any posts of this nature will be removed without warning or notification at a moderator’s discretion.

You can jump up and down all day about seatbelts, but the bottom line is they save more lives than not. It is the law. Most, if not all, insurance companies won't pay if seat belts were not utilized. Life insurance policies won't pay if you weren't wearing a seatbelt. Man, no Man, why or why nots; it's the law (except apparantly in New Hampshire, not sure and don't care to look it up), and regardless of comments or sentiments I would hate to read that something bad happened to you as a result of not wearing one.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:30 PM   #105
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Seatbelts are good, no argument there.

Freedom is better. Stop ignoring all the valid arguments against legislating the use of them. Or pass other laws restricting our freedoms, like is sounds like you will anyway. Like fast-food, gun control, ban alcohol, and cell phones.....Etc.. Then, we won't have to argue amongst ourselves, cause we will be fighting along side each other in a civil war to get liberty back.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:32 PM   #106
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Drunk drivers kill and maim alot more innocent people than examples like this. So we should ban alcohol, right?
You are aware of what a DWI is, right?

And the last time I checked, this thread is about seat belt laws, not alcohol. That's probably the same reason why the gun stats were removed, because they have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Like I said earlier, if you want to debate the merits of gun control or alcohol laws, then start a new thread about those. Right now, we're talking about seat belts.

You're doing what's called a logical fallacy. You can't argue for the repeal of one law because another law doesn't exist. That's like saying we shouldn't devote an entire week of television to sharks because more humans die from electrocution. One has nothing to do with the other.

People can be killed from slipping on their front porch. Should we outlaw front porches?

People can be killed by falling space junk. Should we outlaw satellites?

People can be killed by getting hit in the head from a rock launched by a lawn mower. Should we outlaw all landscaping equipment?

See how ridiculous those arguments are? The same goes for your gun control and alcohol arguments. They have nothing to do with seat belts.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:48 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Godsplumber View Post
Seatbelts are good, no argument there.

Freedom is better. Stop ignoring all the valid arguments against legislating the use of them. Or pass other laws restricting our freedoms, like is sounds like you will anyway. Like fast-food, gun control, ban alcohol, and cell phones.....Etc.. Then, we won't have to argue amongst ourselves, cause we will be fighting along side each other in a civil war to get liberty back.
Thank you. I agree with this 100%.


As for kids and cigarettes, I'm ok with not letting kids buy cigarettes. They are minors. Of course they dont have the same rights as adults do. For example, they cant vote. Now I will say I believe the drinking age should be 18. If you are old enough to die for the country you should be able to enjoy a beer.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:50 PM   #108
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Thank you. I agree with this 100%.


As for kids and cigarettes, I'm ok with not letting kids buy cigarettes. They are minors. Of course they dont have the same rights as adults do. For example, they cant vote. Now I will say I believe the drinking age should be 18. If you are old enough to die for the country you should be able to enjoy a beer.
Ok. So then you agree with the law(s) stating that children must be wearing their seatbelt at all while times while in a car? I mean you just said they don't have the same rights as adults do.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:55 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter View Post
People can be killed from slipping on their front porch. Should we outlaw front porches?

People can be killed by falling space junk. Should we outlaw satellites?

People can be killed by getting hit in the head from a rock launched by a lawn mower. Should we outlaw all landscaping equipment?

See how ridiculous those arguments are? The same goes for your gun control and alcohol arguments. They have nothing to do with seat belts.
By your logic we indeed should outlaw porches, satellites, and landscaping equipment. So if the arguments are ridiculous, you need to ask yourself why you are using that exact logic to defend taking away some personal liberties but not others. It's gonna be real interesting to see how you react when liberties you value start getting taken away.

And again, it's not about seat belts. Or alcohol. Or guns. It's about personal freedoms.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #110
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Ok. So then you agree with the law(s) stating that children must be wearing their seatbelt at all while times while in a car? I mean you just said they don't have the same rights as adults do.
That's up to the parents to decide, not the Government.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:01 PM   #111
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That's up to the parents to decide, not the Government.
Ok. Do you believe that if a parent doesn't take care of, abuses their child, puts them in dangerous situations that the child should be removed and placed into a safer home?
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:02 PM   #112
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That's up to the parents to decide, not the Government.
If there weren't idiot parents among us, I would agree. However, that isn't the case at all.

Legislation protects the good citizens from the moronic population that surrounds us. Children, above all else, need to be protected. They can't do it for themselves, and if they have parents that are too stupid, ignorant, or proud to take the precautions, at least the laws of the land can make them accountable.
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