Tuner will VOID warranty

[1fastdog]

Originally Posted by granpa

appear to be trying to hide it.

1Fastdog, I'm just saying that if GM would not be so arbitrary about voiding warranties for just seeing evidence of a tune and would instead look at the situation on a case by case basis ie. signs of abuse , neglect or design and manfacturing flaws, owners may not feel the need to try to hide things from them. If I tear my stuff up through abuse or neglect it's on me , but if there is some issue with any company's product i would expect them to offer good custumer support and not try to be an adversey just to save a little money. GM advertises the Camaro as an enthusiasts performance car,and should treat thier customers accordingly. SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT COURTS>

Everything is on a case by case basis. The finding of a non factory validated calibration or the evidence one was installed and removed is easily avoided.
The warranty coverage is in place unless some action which isn't the manufacturer's responsibility has taken place which changes that.

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

Gotcha-- So we either have a comprehension problem.. or a simple misunderstanding... I'll let you decide.

Definitely not a comprehension problem...unless it is you that can't understand what I'm writing. We'll call it a simple misunderstanding and let it go... Back to our regularly scheduled discussion...

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by 1fastdog

Customers have a choice on what they do to their vehicle.

You can tune your car and untune the car when you want. That's between you and the Feds...

The other issue could be warranty coverage. Warranties are contracts. Warranties are usually limited. IOW, they are an "if" - "then". The manufacturer states under what circumstances coverage will be given and the customer has to meet their side of the bargain as well.

My desire is people be wide awake and aware of what could happen. Could is the operative term. The "could", in this instance, andthe toleration of the risk is up to the person making the choice.

Some folks will either care less about the possibilities, not be willing to deal with the "could" because there's no way they want to deal with any out of pocket repairs, or they can decide the chances of a problem are not something that bothers them and if they do have an issue they will go to court if there's a dispute.

The reason people go to court over warranty issues is because they believe they can win. That's true for the customer and the manufacturer. IMO, it's great there is an avenue to settle issues if they arise.

No one believes more firmly that manufacturers should live up to their warranty as written than I do.

I can only suggest personal opinions regarding some that has been suggested or alledged in this thread.

If someone believes that a non factory tune could not shorten the life of parts they MIGHT be hurting their own position by hiding or trying to hide that it was installed. I'm not talking about what's pragmatic. I'm suggesting that if you really know and truly are sure what you installed wasn't a problem you might be easier to believe if you didn't appear to be trying to hide it.

Like I said, I'm not unaware that pragmatism doesn't encourage trying to work under a fifth ammendment sort of approach. I'm just suggesting that "evidence tampering" doesn't usually go well if things go to court. Such situations are best run by learned legal counsel.

To reiterate my hopes; enjoy your car and be comfy when you venture into territories that could include hassles.

I agree totally.

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Annnnd here we go again.........like I said and what is in the sticky not only can they tell they will know the date.

Why can't you just sell your product for how good it is. You keep having to throw in this "and we can help you get fraudulent warranty done too" claim.

You have a great product I just can't understand why that isn't enough for you.

That's what I'm trying to get to as well.

Just drop the whole "undetectable" tune stuff.

[jrc1122]

Seriously though-- how is tuning back to stock considered fraud.. IF GM can detect the tune regardless if I tune it back to stock or not?

I don't want a locked out unusuable handheld tuner- therefore it goes back to stock to be safe.

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

Seriously though-- how is tuning back to stock considered fraud.. IF GM can detect the tune regardless if I tune it back to stock or not?

I don't want a locked out unusuable handheld tuner- therefore it goes back to stock to be safe.

And if they do see your past tune and reflash...what will you say? Will you accept you got caught and take responsibility or will you whine that you still deserve your powertrain warranty?

[The 2010 Sin]

Tell them to shush and take the warranty money or you'll take your car elsewhere.

[granpa]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

And if they do see your past tune and reflash...what will you say? Will you accept you got caught and take responsibility or will you whine that you still deserve your powertrain warranty?

And exactly WHY do you think that you DESERVE to have your powertrain warranty voided just because you had a past tune. Are you trying to say that a tune will for sure without a doubt result in a powertrain failure? If were to get a tune and GM voids my powertrain warranty are they going to refund the amount of money that they rolled into the price of the car to cover the now voided warranty? Just wondering, fair is fair they void my powertrain warranty for having a tune with NO evidence of it causing any kind of a failure, looks like GM would be breeching the implied meaning of the powertrain warranty. Wonder how many Camaros and Corvettes they would sell if all of these warranty disclaimers were in bold print on the window sticker.

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by granpa

And exactly WHY do you think that you DESERVE to have your powertrain warranty voided just because you had a past tune. Are you trying to say that a tune will for sure without a doubt result in a powertrain failure? If were to get a tune and GM voids my powertrain warranty are they going to refund the amount of money that they rolled into the price of the car to cover the now voided warranty? Just wondering, fair is fair they void my powertrain warranty for having a tune with NO evidence of it causing any kind of a failure, looks like GM would be breeching the implied meaning of the powertrain warranty. Wonder how many Camaros and Corvettes they would sell if all of these warranty disclaimers were in bold print on the window sticker.

According to the sticky at the top of this forum section...GM states that it doesn't matter one iota if the tune caused it or not. You have changed an operating parameter, thus potentially causing damage that cannot be DIRECTLY attributed, but still potentially caused by a tune. If it is writing and you know the risk...then why be suprised if your powertrain warranty is voided?

There will still be a boat load of the cars sold because most purchasers are mature enough to take responsibility for their actions. Those that aren't, maybe shouldn't be buying.

[granpa]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

According to the sticky at the top of this forum section...GM states that it doesn't matter one iota if the tune caused it or not. You have changed an operating parameter, thus potentially causing damage that cannot be DIRECTLY attributed, but still potentially caused by a tune. If it is writing and you know the risk...then why be suprised if your powertrain warranty is voided?

There will still be a boat load of the cars sold because most purchasers are mature enough to take responsibility for their actions. Those that aren't, maybe shouldn't be buying.

Mr. Tucker seems like most of the folks contributing to this thread are acting and replying in a mature manner, except possibly YOU when someone disagrees with your opinion on GM custmer service. I assure you that I'm mature enough to think for myself and for my own opinions about fairness without simply quoting GM. Just because GM has taken this approach doesn't make it fair to the customer. Are you somehow connected to GM? Please don"t reply unless you can be mature enough to be civil.

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by granpa

Mr. Tucker seems like most of the folks contributing to this thread are acting and replying in a mature manner, except possibly YOU when someone disagrees with your opinion on GM custmer service. I assure you that I'm mature enough to think for myself and for my own opinions about fairness without simply quoting GM. Just because GM has taken this approach doesn't make it fair to the customer. Are you somehow connected to GM? Please don"t reply unless you can be mature enough to be civil.

Nothing about his posts seem immature to me.

Please don't begin attacking members.
remember, a good argument doesn't involve attacks to others. Attacks only show that you don't have anything else to argue.

[granpa]

There will still be a boat load of the cars sold because most purchasers are mature enough to take responsibility for their actions. Those that aren't, maybe shouldn't be buying

This is what I was referring to.Sorry if you perceive this as an attack. Just pointing out that everyone with a different opinion than his should not be considered immature. Seems like 530 posts on this thread would indicate that a few folks think that there is something to debate here.

[jrc1122]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

And if they do see your past tune and reflash...what will you say? Will you accept you got caught and take responsibility or will you whine that you still deserve your powertrain warranty?

If my past tune caused the problem, I would accept it.. but If I feel like I am getting shafted just because they know I had tuned to car before and that is an easy out for them. I would get a 2nd opinion, and based off what they say depends on how I would pursue it.

but again, that didn't answer my question... How am i being fraudulent. IF they can detect the tune, regardless of whether or not it put back to stock before going in for service.

[Milk 1027]

A dealer isn't going to automatically going to look for a tune if they have no reason to believe you have one.

However if they file a case with GM, then GM will look into the car's computer. That will determine if you get the warranty work or not.
If it's a transmission problem you can be sure they will look further into it to make sure there wasn't a tune involved, or any other modifications that would have caused the problem.