Firefighters watch home burn to ground...

[MSG']

scrappy doo, this guy lives in the county and is a home owner, he pays property taxes, and surely he buys things in town, therefor he pays sales taxes. what are property taxes for? I can tell you what mine go towards, and thats schools/roads/fire/police services...this 75 dollar fee is a bogus fee to try and scrape more money from its citzens, and regardless of which county, city, state this person lives in..that is what tax payers money goes toward is for the fire department to put out fires! if this fire department can arrive to protect the neighbor, it can arrive to put out the fire, PERIOD...this is one of the few things that our government provides to its citizens, even if it is his own dumb fault for setting his yard on fire, it is common for people to burn thier own trash/leaves, shit happens, fine him extra, put a lein on his house, but PUT OUT THE FIRE.

So with this arguement if my house gets robbed and my family is held hostage, and he didnt pay his property taxes or was late paying them, ooops sorry we aren't sending the police or swat team

So with this arguement if I went to the hospital because someone hit me head on and i am dying from blood loss and didnt have insurance...sorry no insurance not helping you.

if you were in his shoes and forgot to pay, because other articles says he pays every year, but forgot, you would be screaming for them to put out the fire too...and not sitting here defending the f***ed up system they have in place in tennessee

[PQ]

Originally Posted by CuteQueen

People need to have compassion! What if the family was going through a hard time and could not afford $75 dollars for the bill. Someone could have got hurt and now a family is without a home they should have take them up on their offer to pay the bill after

Your anger may be blinding you a bit.

I said I would put it out. BUT I agree with the decision.

You gonna FORCE a group of people to pay for another group?

I see you would, but I don't agree with it.

Originally Posted by MSG'

i find this absolutely rediculous and the fact that you all are defending the system is even more laughable. Firefighters show up, put the fire out, this pisses me off so much, one of the FEW responsiblities that the government has is to protect its citizens/personal property when it is out of your control, earthquakes, tornado's, hurricanes, FIRE! Its a natural diasasiter (locally small one) These actions are criminal for the ones in charge making the decision, and criminal negligence on the firefighters part. (good simaritian laws) In the military if you follow an order that you feel in unlawful, you will be punished, i can site plenty of examples. The guy didn't pay, ok, put the fire out, charge him 5k after the fact. I used to be a volunteer firefighter, we goto a fire, we put it out, PERIOD. If any one of you who are saying, oh to-bad so-sad, thats what he gets blah blah blah, ROLE REVERSAL, you all would be doing the same thing this guy was doing...I agree with being personal responsiblity, more independance etc etc. BUT, fire/police/military protection is one big reason why we have a GOVERNMENT...sorry for the bad spelling and punctuation, but this article, wow very angry.

I'm assuming you read their local constitution?

Or maybe you believe the Federal one should be applied here?

And don't give me that 'Role Reversal' thing. I said earlier, I'd want help, I'd accept help, I'd be greatful for help. I WOULDN'T BLAME ANYONE BUT MYSELF.

I find it equaly ridiculous that some believe that people should be allowed to circumvent the set rules with their own. At the obvious expense of others. Thievery if you ask me.

Originally Posted by motorhead

+ I am in full agreement with you, and it is really sad to me that many people on this forum agree with letting it burn. It makes me wonder if there is anybody left in this country with any commonsense and morals.

No their isn't. But if you punch me in the face, and I forgive you, I'm probably not gonna hang with you anymore. If you punch me again, then it's my own damn fault.

And I'm not calling this guy an idiot, or being condecending in any way toward him. I'm just saying he should accept the choice he made. Again, I'd have helped him put out the fire. ANd would help him moving ahead. But he was not wronged here.

Under your idea, I can stop supporting everyone. Keep ALL of my money except for my immediate utilities and obligations and if something goes wrong, I can expect someone to come to my aid.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Well then just let them all burn. At least I'm coming up with a suggestion that keeps the fire from getting out of control and spreading to someone's home or kills someone. That's why it's their moral duty to put it out and then worry about getting paid. It's no different than someone going to a hospital that doesn't have insurance in an emergency. They don't let them lay there and die.

I know if I would have been the guy next door who paid my $75 dollars and the fire spread to my house ,when they could have put it out before that happen, it would have cost the fire dept a lot more than $75 in law suits.
They just got lucky that it didn't. What about the next time?
This is an insane conversation with insane people. I'm done with it. Good bye.

NOT their lawful obligation.

And goodbye. I'm glad you are not an influential decision maker for my community.

[MSG']

Originally Posted by PQ

And don't give me that 'Role Reversal' thing. I said earlier, I'd want help, I'd accept help, I'd be greatful for help. I WOULDN'T BLAME ANYONE BUT MYSELF.

I find it equaly ridiculous that some believe that people should be allowed to circumvent the set rules with their own. At the obvious expense of others. Thievery if you ask me.

OK PQ I will give you that about the role reversal and I'm sorry, this story really got my blood boiling...we can just agree to disagree I guess, because I firmly believe that this is one of governments major roles, regardless of what tennessee's constitution says, the fire department should have put it out for reasons I stated in my less pissed off/ranting posts.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by MSG'

Rogue leader, i live in the county, i pay property taxes just like everyone else, I also goto the city and buy things, and pay sales taxes. guess what these taxes pay for these VITAL city services, If my yard was on fire, and I called the fire department and they A. didnt show up or B. showed up to protect my neighbors house, because i forgot to pay some extra fee, which is a bullshit fee in the first place, I would be going to jail on some kind of felony charges, and i am a upstanding, tax paying, never been in trouble, peaceful kind of guy...this is one of the main governments roles is to protect its citizens if they would have showed up when the yard was on fire, the house wouldnt have burned, whats to say it doesnt spread and burn down the neighborhood? if I was the neighbors I would be pissed as well....not to mention its morally WRONG, and if i was one of the firefighters on the scene i would have lost my job because i would have fought it by myself if need be...and yes there was a time when i knew how to operate the truck when i was a volunteer

Originally Posted by MSG'

scrappy doo, this guy lives in the county and is a home owner, he pays property taxes, and surely he buys things in town, therefor he pays sales taxes. what are property taxes for? I can tell you what mine go towards, and thats schools/roads/fire/police services...this 75 dollar fee is a bogus fee to try and scrape more money from its citzens, and regardless of which county, city, state this person lives in..that is what tax payers money goes toward is for the fire department to put out fires! if this fire department can arrive to protect the neighbor, it can arrive to put out the fire, PERIOD...this is one of the few things that our government provides to its citizens, even if it is his own dumb fault for setting his yard on fire, it is common for people to burn thier own trash/leaves, shit happens, fine him extra, put a lein on his house, but PUT OUT THE FIRE.

So with this arguement if my house gets robbed and my family is held hostage, and he didnt pay his property taxes or was late paying them, ooops sorry we aren't sending the police or swat team

So with this arguement if I went to the hospital because someone hit me head on and i am dying from blood loss and didnt have insurance...sorry no insurance not helping you.

if you were in his shoes and forgot to pay, because other articles says he pays every year, but forgot, you would be screaming for them to put out the fire too...and not sitting here defending the f***ed up system they have in place in tennessee

Pal you have absolutely no clue how this works. There isn't some big Tax pool that they break up and pay for different services. Fire departments that aren't city owned and run (unlike the FDNY, DCFD, LAFD, etc which are city run) work almost like subcontractors. Their budget is paid through PROPERTY TAXES ONLY. Part of everyones property taxes is a fire tax. The department covers the area of their district that is covered by their taxes. Unless a mutual aid agreement is in place between departments, they do not serve adjoining districts. Or an agreement such as the homeowners in this persons area were in.

In this particular area this fire department covers their county or city. These people live OUTSIDE THE CITY/COUNTY LIMITS in another county or city which means their property taxes do not pay the FD budget. Also their area does not have a fire department so the FD in the adjoining areas offer fire protection service for a fee, basically a fire tax paid directly to the department. Its not a bullshit extra fee. They pay LESS TAXES because they live outside of the district!

The fundamental purpose of government is the maintenance of basic security and public order, and yes to protect its citizens from threats. Maybe if you read the article you'd know the homeowner and residents were not threatened they were OUTSIDE the house. Public safety was not threatened, the FD was there, protecting the property surrounding the fire. It wasn't going to spread and burn down the neighborhood. It takes a LOT of perfect circumstances for something like that to happen and a regular house fire generally will not cook the neighborhood 99% of the time.

You tout having "operated the truck" a some kind of validation to your argument but you will get no sympathy from me. I'm not gonna get in a pissing contest here with you but you obviously didn't have enough experience when you were there to know how every aspect of running a fire department works, or how a fire behaves. You would also understand that public safety such as EMS or Police protection to PERSONAL INJURY is far different than protection of PROPERTY and this would not have happened if someones LIFE was at stake.

[MSG']

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Pal you have absolutely no clue how this works. There isn't some big Tax pool that they break up and pay for different services. Fire departments that aren't city owned and run (unlike the FDNY, DCFD, LAFD, etc which are city run) work almost like subcontractors. Their budget is paid through PROPERTY TAXES ONLY. Part of everyones property taxes is a fire tax. The department covers the area of their district that is covered by their taxes. Unless a mutual aid agreement is in place between departments, they do not serve adjoining districts. Or an agreement such as the homeowners in this persons area were in.

In this particular area this fire department covers their county or city. These people live OUTSIDE THE CITY/COUNTY LIMITS in another county or city which means their property taxes do not pay the FD budget. Also their area does not have a fire department so the FD in the adjoining areas offer fire protection service for a fee, basically a fire tax paid directly to the department. Its not a bullshit extra fee. They pay LESS TAXES because they live outside of the district!

The fundamental purpose of government is the maintenance of basic security and public order, and yes to protect its citizens from threats. Maybe if you read the article you'd know the homeowner and residents were not threatened they were OUTSIDE the house. Public safety was not threatened, the FD was there, protecting the property surrounding the fire. It wasn't going to spread and burn down the neighborhood. It takes a LOT of perfect circumstances for something like that to happen and a regular house fire generally will not cook the neighborhood 99% of the time.

You tout having "operated the truck" a some kind of validation to your argument but you will get no sympathy from me. I'm not gonna get in a pissing contest here with you but you obviously didn't have enough experience when you were there to know how every aspect of running a fire department works, or how a fire behaves. You would also understand that public safety such as EMS or Police protection to PERSONAL INJURY is far different than protection of PROPERTY and this would not have happened if someones LIFE was at stake.

Rogue, I don't need to be an expert and 100% educated on how our tax monies are spent to know when it is broken, this is obviously a problem that they state or counties need to fix, ie. have a agreement made between counties/cities etc...Is there not a department of forestry in the area? Like i said before, this guy pays property taxes to somebody, its obvious to me the system is broken.

My firefighting experiance was only enough to know how to operate the controls and aim the hose at the fire, i mostly only fought brush fires, and a handful of house fires..by no means did i claim to be an expert and that was almost 15 years ago anyway...and it was in southern california where fire has always been a huge threat.

the bottom line, i understand your side of the arguement, but we can sit here and argue about it till the thread is locked, I won't change my mind. They should have attempted to save this home owners house.

[PoorMansCamaro]

I don't think it's broken. There's a $75 bill he didn't pay. Pay that, and you're good to go.

[PoorMansCamaro]

It's like if you switch your car insurance, but you have a month gap. You get in an accident in that month. You think any insurance is going to cover you? Nope. He didn't buy insurance, no people were in harms way...and there she wrote.

[MSG']

I have lived in many places in this country, and apparently this is the only place that charges extra to put out fires...this is what property taxes are for PMC, so its not broken when this community has to pay property taxes, get home owners insurance, then pay extra for fire protection? thats rediculous thats what property taxes are for!

[The_Blur]

[CamaroSkooter]

MSG' - If you live in the county but outside the city limits, your property taxes do not always include fire protection. As is the case here, you have to opt-in (for $75) and the nearest fire department will add you to their protection list.

[Rshep]

Originally Posted by FFPM73

I think that is an ethical violation and that resident could sue that dept/city and win big bucks!!!!

how is it a violation of anything? They were told they couldn't have service from the fire department if they didn't pay the fee and they chose not to pay the fee. I'm assuming the department showed up to make sure the fire didn't spread anywhere else such as the neighbors house. I say it is their own fault for being a cheap ass.

[MSG']

skooter, I've already have had to call the fire department out to our street during a tornado, powerlines or lightning caught a tree on fire, and once again at my moms place I caught the yard on fire burning branches,wind caught some embers and it spread past my hoses reach, landed past where i wet the area down. only thing we are required to do is call a 1-800 number before we burn, fire department came and put the fire out, i wasnt fined or charged anything, both in the county, but it was a volunteer station

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I guess you didn't read my post. I explained how to avoid all of that.

I went back and read it (or at least, I read one of your posts, I'm not sure if it's the one you're referring to or not).

If you're going to sign a contract with a fire department, why not just pay the $75?

Sure, the fire department could have put out his house fire, and then sent him a bill. Do you really think he would have been legally obligated to pay it?

The fire department would never have seen a dime from the guy, all while setting the precedent for everyone in the area that, if you don't pay the $75 fee, we'll still put out your house fire.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by MSG'

skooter, I've already have had to call the fire department out to our street during a tornado, powerlines or lightning caught a tree on fire, and once again at my moms place I caught the yard on fire burning branches,wind caught some embers and it spread past my hoses reach, landed past where i wet the area down. only thing we are required to do is call a 1-800 number before we burn, fire department came and put the fire out, i wasnt fined or charged anything, both in the county, but it was a volunteer station

Okay, and that's fine.

Have you gone and looked at your property taxes? Do they itemize where your money goes to? Typically there will be a line in there somewhere that states you are covered by such-and-such fire department.

In the case of this article, it is expressly written that in this area, property taxes do not cover fire protection. I'm betting the property taxes pay for road maintenance and that's about it.