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Old 11-18-2015, 07:43 AM   #1
Bo White


 
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whats the big deal about CF driveshafts?

https://youtu.be/hjErH4_1fks
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:24 AM   #2
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Weight #1 and there kind of like a rubber band, they wind tight on the launch and as they un-twist it helps with the 60'.


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Old 11-18-2015, 09:14 AM   #3
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Very cool video.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:20 AM   #4
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Less reciprocating mass so it spools up quicker.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:48 AM   #5
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Less reciprocating mass so it spools up quicker.
That Too. DSS wanted to put me into a CF shaft with the 9" but I was gun shy about some of the rocks on our mountian pass's as I have already taken couple of hits to the underside of Pumpkin off the roads up here.

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Old 11-19-2015, 07:09 AM   #6
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Most think the weight is the big advantage, there usually a little lighter but not the whole story. This is from my Email reply sheet that ill send out when asked about this sort of thing. hope it helps

Harmonics
You see the rubber bushings in a car are there to remove harmonics from the cabin, harmonics are caused by the engine firing in pulses and the firing turns the crank, but not smooth like an electric motor, it speeds up every time the spark plug ignites the fuel, this is why the engine has a harmonic damper on the front to kind of smooth this action. when you change from rubber to solid or poly mounts it will sometimes re-introduce the harmonic back in the cabin (the reason rubber is used is to make it quiet)i have been asking under scrutiny why a stock 2 piece will not do this as much as a single one and its simple. the center of the driveshaft that is supported but a by a real soft rubber hanger. its hiding this,shaft is still moving around but the rubber is soaking it up. put a solid rubber there and it would change this tremendously. its kind of masking but its still there, when you put a single shaft in there is nothing hiding the center moving around so its transferred to the ends (think of a tuning fork, hit one side and the other moves not because its out of balance but because a sound it being transmitted thru it) Hope this make sense

material and Harmonics
you are standing in front of (3) 48" long pieces of tube, all about 3.5" in diameter but one is steel, the next aluminum and the 3rd Carbon Fiber. You then pick up the steel on with your thumb and your index finger and strike the middle of the tube with a long screwdriver. The steel shaft will ring like a bell and continue until the harmonic being produced by the strike exhausts itself. You do the same with the Aluminum next, you will get a bit of ring but not as loud and will not hold for near as long. You then pick up the Carbon Fiber and strike it the same way as the others, it make a clack and stops almost immediately.

This affect is the same thing that happens when the motor if firing and pulsing the power from the explosions in each cylinder(this is what a Harminc damper trys to stop on the engine) This pulse along with the frequency coming out of the trans and the diff all collide in the hollow tube of a driveshaft, the material will either broadcast it or will not allot it to go any further. Think of a Tuning fork, hit one side and the other moves. Its not out of balance its being excited by the frequency being sent to it, the driveshaft does the same thing so balance is not to blame its harmonic, on the 2005+ mustang Ford had such a problem with this on the car they did a 2 piece driveshaft with (1) u-joint, a hanger bearing (2) CV's and a 9lb damper in the back shaft (talk about a
flywheel affect) this shaft weighs 46lbs and was used to stop the issue. other things like solid or poly mounts will make this even worse but thats a story for another day......


Carbon
Carbon is lighter but its not the real prominent thing it does. The carbon shaft would make the car more consistent with the 60ft times. and help lower them you see when the shaft starts to twist the each of the materials will wrap up. Steel/chromoly 5-7 degrees aluminum is about 20 degrees and Carbon 30 degrees, what the difference is the Carbon releases slowly and does not shock the tires, most see between .1 to .3 gain in the 60's.

Guibo/hanger issue with stock shaft
The stock shaft will have to start by putting the torque into the front Guibo and it
gives, then it moves down to the hanger that is very soft and will move up about .750" then back to the
rear guibo and compress that one, so by the time the torque goes thru the shaft its dampened allot to
the point of feeling soft or disconnected, by putting the single shaft in the car will be allot more responsive to
pedal/torque input. It will have a more athletic feel and be quicker due to the lack of the soft parts being
removed.

Dear DSS, I have some questions regarding your drive shafts.

1/ How do carbon fiber drive shafts cope with radiant heat from the exhaust system? Should a product such as this be used on the relevant section of the exhaust pipe?
the bonding of carbon will start to have issues at 300 degrees, if the exhaust is close wrapping it or shielding it will bring the number below this.



2/ How do cf shafts cope with stone chips and abrasions caused by gravel and other road debris?
our Carbon shafts actually have a outer layer of Fiberglass, this is done to ensure the surface of the carbon to be protected, its about .125 thick and
is very good at saving the shaft, if something were do dig thru it the shaft would be bad but also keep in mind if something were to do this to aluminum it would also ruin the shaft.


3/ Do cf drive shafts have a shelf life? That is, should they be replaced after a certain amount of time?
Heat is the only thing that will shorten the life, all shafts will have a fatigue cycle, Carbon is as high if not higher then Steel/Aluminum


4/ What is the advantage of a carbon fiber shaft over an aluminum shaft?
The biggest this is its ability to absorb harmonics and its torsion properties. you see all shafts will twist before a vehicle moves, steel about 7 degrees aluminum about 20 and carbon about 30. the difference is the others will come back like a spring and put reverse torque or time compounded stress on the shaft and the rest of the drivetrain. Carbon releases its energy over time and will help with either 60ft times in a drag car, coming out of a corner with a Drift,road race/rally or time attack car and it will also protect the drive train from harmful shock. The harmonic advantage is the fact that it will not amplify drivetrain drone or motor/trans harmonics like the other materials.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:40 AM   #7
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^^^ Great write up, that should answer everybodies questions.

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Old 11-19-2015, 08:48 AM   #8
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^^^ Great write up, that should answer everybodies questions.


It was for sure, except I still don't know what the weight savings is.

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Old 11-19-2015, 09:14 AM   #9
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Wonder what a cf shaft runs for our cars. The weight loss #s would be good to know as well.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:50 AM   #10
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It was for sure, except I still don't know what the weight savings is.

Not sure off the top of my head, but I'm sure Frank will weigh back in on the subject.


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Old 11-19-2015, 11:26 AM   #11
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Weight loss with a carbon shaft over stock is -2-3lbs. Aluminum is like -1lb.
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:41 PM   #12
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Weight loss with a carbon shaft over stock is -2-3lbs. Aluminum is like -1lb.
Thank you! Was one of my "what if..." moments, didn't know if it was 5lb or 50lbs and to find out it's "zero" makes the decision easy for my weekend warrior.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:36 PM   #13
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It was for sure, except I still don't know what the weight savings is.



The carbon for this car would be about 2lbs lighter then the Aluminum im guessing 19lbs
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Old 11-21-2015, 08:00 AM   #14
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Isn't it better to have a one piece drive shaft?
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