Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Bigwormgraphix
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Chevy Camaro vs...


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2014, 05:18 PM   #15
mlee
www.CamaroFest.org
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE - on order
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 32,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrmoreira13 View Post
I am sorry but a AWD vs RWD
AWD will always win
Especially a beast of a machine that is the GT-R
We're talking about from a roll here...
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 05:49 PM   #16
DarkneSS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Westchester, New York
Posts: 3,715
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
The faster roll you have and the higher speed you get to the better. And yes with the mods you have you will take him from a 50 mph roll. I'll PM you my video.
Not at all people!

GTR is NOT AWD! The secret sauce for the GTR is that on avg it only has 9% drive train loss and has the ability to send power to the front wheels when slip is detected. After launch all the power is going to the real wheels.

http://www.cnet.com/pictures/all-whe...ork-photos/14/

If the car cracks you from a dig it will also likely crack you from a roll. The car is JUST AS FAST from a roll or dig. Its not like how you could lose to an EVO in the 1/4 but beat him on a roll. GTR does not have the AWD penalty.

Not only that, but that 9% drive train loss is a crazy advantage. Most RWD MT cars lose ~14-16% to the wheels with AWD and auto in general losing even more. On top of that is shifts lightning fast.

That is why you see the GTR always beating cars with more power. If weight was completely equal between you and a GTR, you would pretty much always need at LEAST 6% more HP because you lose more to wheels. If you have a stick you're going to need even more power because it shifts so much faster than you ever could. Its also never going to spin while you might, even from a roll.

Tons of youtube videos where a guy has 100 more HP then loses from a dig or roll and everyone says "oh he doesn't really have 100 more Hp." Um yeah he probably does but thats about how much more you need to even be in the game with one.

To OP, with 652 whp you should be good to go either way. You should be able to catch up from a dig by the 1/4 if you get a good launch. From a roll you should crack it but it really won't be easy. Higher MPH roll only gives you an advantage in that you will spin less. You can go as high in MPH as you want with that thing and it will pull hard regardless.
DarkneSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 05:58 PM   #17
mlee
www.CamaroFest.org
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE - on order
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 32,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkneSS View Post
Not at all people!

GTR is NOT AWD! The secret sauce for the GTR is that on avg it only has 9% drive train loss and has the ability to send power to the front wheels when slip is detected. After launch all the power is going to the real wheels.

http://www.cnet.com/pictures/all-whe...ork-photos/14/

If the car cracks you from a dig it will also likely crack you from a roll. The car is JUST AS FAST from a roll or dig. Its not like how you could lose to an EVO in the 1/4 but beat him on a roll. GTR does not have the AWD penalty.

Not only that, but that 9% drive train loss is a crazy advantage. Most RWD MT cars lose ~14-16% to the wheels with AWD and auto in general losing even more. On top of that is shifts lightning fast.

That is why you see the GTR always beating cars with more power. If weight was completely equal between you and a GTR, you would pretty much always need at LEAST 6% more HP because you lose more to wheels. If you have a stick you're going to need even more power because it shifts so much faster than you ever could. Its also never going to spin while you might, even from a roll.

Tons of youtube videos where a guy has 100 more HP then loses from a dig or roll and everyone says "oh he doesn't really have 100 more Hp." Um yeah he probably does but thats about how much more you need to even be in the game with one.

To OP, with 652 whp you should be good to go either way. You should be able to catch up from a dig by the 1/4 if you get a good launch. From a roll you should crack it but it really won't be easy. Higher MPH roll only gives you an advantage in that you will spin less. You can go as high in MPH as you want with that thing and it will pull hard regardless.
I never said it wasn't fast from a roll, ours is just slow from a dig. You just said exactly what I was saying. GTR went down quite easily from 50 to 130 having 672 horses under the hood. Would have needed a long track to catch him from a dig.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 08:08 PM   #18
DarkneSS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Westchester, New York
Posts: 3,715
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
I never said it wasn't fast from a roll, ours is just slow from a dig. You just said exactly what I was saying. GTR went down quite easily from 50 to 130 having 672 horses under the hood. Would have needed a long track to catch him from a dig.
My bad interpreted your post as to agreeing with other posters using the AWD roll advantage idea.
DarkneSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 09:47 PM   #19
pgviper
 
Drives: 67 Pro Touring Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 250
Send a message via AIM to pgviper
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkneSS View Post
My bad interpreted your post as to agreeing with other posters using the AWD roll advantage idea.

Dual drive shafts, wet clutch, etc...

The two most interesting awd systems out there are Nissan's ATTESA-ETS and Honda's SH-AWD. Does exactly what you said, give you the awd dig advantage without the rolling disadvantage.
pgviper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 09:59 PM   #20
Unreal


 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 5,716
Depends on the year of GTR. Newer ones are A LOT faster than the older ones. 2013+ have gone 10s @125+ bone stock.
__________________
Nick
Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp
Unreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 07:37 AM   #21
toyosuprablue
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Black M6
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nyack, NY
Posts: 370
Thanks for all the responses. I knew it would be a tough call and depend on the GT-R being stock or not. I guess it would mostly come down to the driver in the ZL-1 (me) launching perfectly since the GT-R is auto and AWD.
toyosuprablue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 07:55 AM   #22
scott9050
 
Drives: 2014 Mustang GT 6M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 35
I witnessed a new one with a paper plate at MIR running 10.8-10.9 at 130-131 all day at the start of the season. I was impressed.
scott9050 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 08:31 AM   #23
EDFHOBBIES

 
EDFHOBBIES's Avatar
 
Drives: 16 SS & 17 ZL1 Both Yellow
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,792
Send a message via Skype™ to EDFHOBBIES
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyosuprablue View Post
See sig for mods. I was at the track with a GT-R (sounded stock) and never got a chance to run him. Curious who everyone thinks would win from a rolling start say 30-100 or 30-120. I think he would still get me from a stand still. If I ever get the chance again, what speed would be best for me to start running at?

My buddy has a 2013 1 LE work done by Jrod and matt sorian tune.. He has the night furry cam, Phaft headers, TB, Coldair Induction CAI and we raced a GT-R it sounded like it had some type of exhaust work. Anyway I weight 300lb and friend weight is 170. from a rolling start of about 40 something it was dead even. his car dynoed 485 rwhp at phasetek. I dynoed 501 with a supercharger only no other work just a tune. unless its 55 degrees or cooler i get spanked not even close. I am getting a cam next week and I just out on a Roto fab CAI and kooks it has really made the car feel like a new car again. I can't wait for my cam.

That night furry cam is badd ass it pulls so dam hard all the way.. I find myself starting to pull then I gotta shift and lose any ground i make up or lose any lead I have..

I don't know if you saw the episode if your Are you faster than a Red kneck.. but the GT-R was the only car that truly won.. I think another car did but it was from a spin out or drivers ability..
EDFHOBBIES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 09:39 AM   #24
james347
 
Drives: 2006 Crownline
Join Date: May 2012
Location: .
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyosuprablue View Post
See sig for mods. I was at the track with a GT-R (sounded stock) and never got a chance to run him. Curious who everyone thinks would win from a rolling start say 30-100 or 30-120. I think he would still get me from a stand still. If I ever get the chance again, what speed would be best for me to start running at?
With good traction (proper tires) I would say any speed you should take him. But hard to say really. The ZL1 stock and modified are super fast cars.

I'd be driving a Silver ZL1 Auto right now if the dealers around me weren't such *icks. Another story, another time maybe.

I have a 2014 GT-R now. Very clever how Nissan worked out the all wheel drive, there is a torque graph on the display that shows how much power is being transferred to the front wheels. 99% of the time the car is in rear wheel drive mode. From a roll of about 40 I almost never see the front wheel drive kick in. There might be a slight transfer of power, but it usually stays to the back wheels. Below 40, if the back wheels even 'chirp', the front wheels kick in so fast it is amazing.

My previous car was a 12 SLP ZL600 M6, made about 560 RWHP. I was never any good with a manual car, always had a hard time figuring out the right gear, rpm to for a good roll launch. With the GT-R seems like any speed is a good speed to launch, the computer on that car is so fast with the downshift and other stuff that is just takes off.

My three favorite cars, ZL1, GT500, and GT-R. Not in any order

Driving around town the transmission is very clunky. Never would think it has any efficiency to it at all. Until you step on the gas. The other thing, is the throttle on the Nissan is much more sensitive then on any car I have driven. If I hit a bump in the rood and my foot moves a fraction of an inch, the car will accelerate or decelerate suddenly. I guess that's why they have a 'Save' and 'Comfort' mode that detunes everything while driving.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just throwing out some thoughts.

From what I have seen at the track, a stock or modded ZL1 is a serious beast of a car. So good luck! Not that you need it.
james347 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 05:46 PM   #25
alaskacamaro
 
alaskacamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 2SS 45TH Anniversary
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by james347 View Post
With good traction (proper tires) I would say any speed you should take him. But hard to say really. The ZL1 stock and modified are super fast cars.

I'd be driving a Silver ZL1 Auto right now if the dealers around me weren't such *icks. Another story, another time maybe.

I have a 2014 GT-R now. Very clever how Nissan worked out the all wheel drive, there is a torque graph on the display that shows how much power is being transferred to the front wheels. 99% of the time the car is in rear wheel drive mode. From a roll of about 40 I almost never see the front wheel drive kick in. There might be a slight transfer of power, but it usually stays to the back wheels. Below 40, if the back wheels even 'chirp', the front wheels kick in so fast it is amazing.

My previous car was a 12 SLP ZL600 M6, made about 560 RWHP. I was never any good with a manual car, always had a hard time figuring out the right gear, rpm to for a good roll launch. With the GT-R seems like any speed is a good speed to launch, the computer on that car is so fast with the downshift and other stuff that is just takes off.

My three favorite cars, ZL1, GT500, and GT-R. Not in any order

Driving around town the transmission is very clunky. Never would think it has any efficiency to it at all. Until you step on the gas. The other thing, is the throttle on the Nissan is much more sensitive then on any car I have driven. If I hit a bump in the rood and my foot moves a fraction of an inch, the car will accelerate or decelerate suddenly. I guess that's why they have a 'Save' and 'Comfort' mode that detunes everything while driving.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just throwing out some thoughts.

From what I have seen at the track, a stock or modded ZL1 is a serious beast of a car. So good luck! Not that you need it.
Excellent post sir

Not too many GT-R owners that make pro and con statements about their cars. The few I have spoken too come in two groups; either they have zero experience with a high performing car or they think that literally nothing can beat them that's street legal.

Ironically most people I speak to (non enthusiast, mild interest or "old school") look at a GT-R and think "Ricer", not understanding that it is not just another 300Zish Nissan...

Would love to hear your dealer's an a*#hole story too. Would even be better if the Nissan dealer was across the street and they watched you walk over and drive off in a GT-R.
alaskacamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 08:15 AM   #26
mlee
www.CamaroFest.org
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE - on order
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 32,534
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206889731435013

Here's a good video of a cam'd ZL1 vs. GTR. Not sure what the GTR had for mods but it ran 11.2 @ 122 all day and I ran 11.3 @125 His 60' was way better than my 1.8X and that's where the ZL gets beat, but I was pulling up on him all the way down the track.

This run I had no idea anyone was pulling up in the left lane. It was a private track rental. Should have run him a few more times as we were very close.
__________________
.

Last edited by mlee; 10-25-2015 at 08:18 AM. Reason: wrong thread
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 05:23 PM   #27
BlueN20Camaro
Banned
 
Drives: 1LE LS3
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Miami
Posts: 540
Google the V6 mustang that raped one from a roll with 3 guys in it full weight Ac and a nitrous bang button.
BlueN20Camaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 05:55 PM   #28
Joseph1LE

 
Drives: 2015 Camaro SS 1LE, 2001 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Miami
Posts: 836
If you aren't beating up hard on stock GTRs with your mods then you have a piss poor set up. Lightly modded/tune GTRs should still be a good run.
__________________
2017 GMC Canyon All Terrain- daily driver/dirt bike hauler

2015 Camaro SS 1LE- sold
2001 Camaro SS SOM M6- sold
1999 Firebird Formula A4- sold
Joseph1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.