GM announces plant closings and ending production of several sedans

[CoolbreezeNJ]

Originally Posted by Chazzz

Last time I checked things were going pretty darn good overall “before” the corporate tax cuts and trade tariffs.... If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, why mess with a booming economy....Just Sayin

With all due respect that is an absolutely stupid statement. The previous administration in the Whitehouse gave you 2% GDP growth said "these jobs" are gone forever and all the while doubled the US debt. Honestly you couldn't do a worse job then that!!!! Do you understand that the GDP is now near 4%???

W/o the tax cuts companies like Apple and Microsoft are not US companies as they keep their profits overseas to avoid the worst corporate taxes in the world. The tariffs will work themselves out and if your actually paying attention, the US has huge tariffs against them by other countries. The US does get screwed on that royally. When I worked in Brasil all US technology was taxed at 100% so you pay $2000 US for an iPhone X in Brasil. How would you like to be Boeing and if you want to sell the 787 in China? Boeing has to make it in China then all of the plans and Intellectual Property rights are then just stolen. That happens across a variety of countries from everything from planes to pharmaceuticals.

The best thing that we can all do is see with our eyes (facts) and not with our hearts, (politics). I honestly didn't care if we were ruled by Hindu monks as long as they delivered the best overall opportunities for all Americans!!!

[VAZL1]

Originally Posted by fastball

So were we supposed to just let China continue to rape us on the trade deficit? American companies would rather go bankrupt than fix their trade deficit with China, and that's why Trump had to do something. Is the tariffs the right answer? Probably not, but it's a good attempt and smacking the people who need to be smacked.

[lawguy85]

Originally Posted by CoolbreezeNJ

With all due respect that is an absolutely stupid statement. The previous administration in the Whitehouse gave you 2% GDP growth said "these jobs" are gone forever and all the while doubled the US debt. Honestly you couldn't do a worse job then that!!!! Do you understand that the GDP is now near 4%???

W/o the tax cuts companies like Apple and Microsoft are not US companies as they keep their profits overseas. The tariffs will work themselves out and if your actually paying attention, the US has huge tariffs against them by other countries. The US does get screwed on that royally. How would you like to be Boeing and if you want to sell the 787 in China? Boeing has to make it in China then all of the plans and Intellectual Property rights are then just stolen. That happens across a variety of countries from everything from planes to pharmaceuticals.

The best thing that we can all do is see with our eyes (facts) and not with our hearts, (politics). I honestly didn't care if we were ruled by Hindu monks as long as they delivered the best overall opportunities for all Americans!!!

This statement is incongruous with your previous thoughts. Look for yourself, trends were started well before 45 took office. Source, the Fed:

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/64670...ng-u-s-economy

Not only that, the amount of jobs added per year under 45 are dwarfed by those added per year during 44's admin:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#3b62d1441283

You mentioned GDP grown, guess what, 45 also loses there:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.10e638dd980f

These are all FACTS. When you say something with nothing to back it up, that's OPINION. Cheerleading. Adhering to your political religion. Letting your bias skew empirical data.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by TJay74

I dont see GM dropping the Camaro, they already know that was one of the worst mistakes they made back in 2002. Sadly there was no way around it due to the way the contract was written with the Canadian St Therese plant, the Canadian UAW had worded their contract that when the 4th gen production was done that no other F-body could be made anywhere else and it had to be built there. That is a huge reason why GM killed the F-body platform, to get out from under that UAW contract and plant.

Contracts are like hearts - they were made to be broken. If GM wanted to get out from the St. Theresse contract and continue building the Camaro they should have better lawyers.

[Chazzz]

Originally Posted by lawguy85

False. All sedan sales are down. ALL. Ford/GM just had less market share so it had a disproportionate effect on them.

Typed/deleted a bunch of ad hominems, realized it's pointless. The new normal is baseless arguments, best way to combat is just post facts and go.

Unrelated, tax cuts were $157M in value to GM thus far, tariffs cost them $1BN. These are facts. Literally all the other nonsense being spouted is baseless opinion formed off emotion/political cheerleading. I don't expect any of you to be real with yourselves, so flame on.

+1

[Jim50thSS]

I'm a big fan of Milton Friedman, not sure there is anyone like him today. When it comes to trade, trade deficits, socialism, capitalism & everything to do with an economy, no one explains it so easily in a way that helps those that struggle to understand the complex workings of economics. There are plenty of videos online, I recommend anyone that wants to understand how we hurt or benefit from these issues on trade to look him up and give a listen to his perspective.

[Klayman]

So, since some of us like some facts:

EU charges 10% on US autos verses our 2.5% on their autos.

Japan has a virtual lock on dealerships, parts and service supply chains making it very expensive for the US auto market to get established. (Or any other auto market)

And....EU is considering lowering that 10% duty now.....wow.

China has no incentive to keep improving quality of anything they make past bare minimum and has a poor trade record.

I know tariffs and trade involve much more but.....

Lets just level the playing field some!

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by aland12345

engines that automatically stall at every red light. (god i hate that). !

I hate to tell you but that is not just GM, Ford commented that by 2019 all their vehicles would have the auto shut off at red lights, Jeep and Dodge are also follow along.. I agree, you should at least have a button to disable it if you want.

[Chazzz]

Originally Posted by Klayman

So, since some of us like some facts:

EU charges 10% on US autos verses our 2.5% on their autos.

Japan has a virtual lock on dealerships, parts and service supply chains making it very expensive for the US auto market to get established. (Or any other auto market)

And....EU is considering lowering that 10% duty now.....wow.

China has no incentive to keep improving quality of anything they make past bare minimum and has a poor trade record.

I know tariffs and trade involve much more but.....

Lets just level the playing field some!

If you truly want to level the playing field... ever wonder why Big3 pickups do so well in the US market? Namely the 25% levy on imported pickup trucks....

[Davy_Baby9]

When CUV's offer similar fuel mileage and offer more ground clearance for better visibilty and winter driving, getting in and out, the writing was on the wall.

And I LOL and the armchair economists in here.

[lawguy85]

Originally Posted by Klayman

So, since some of us like some facts:

EU charges 10% on US autos verses our 2.5% on their autos.

Japan has a virtual lock on dealerships, parts and service supply chains making it very expensive for the US auto market to get established. (Or any other auto market)

And....EU is considering lowering that 10% duty now.....wow.

China has no incentive to keep improving quality of anything they make past bare minimum and has a poor trade record.

I know tariffs and trade involve much more but.....

Lets just level the playing field some!

Idk if any of that's true or not, no sources. But I'll humor you, you mention one factor, tariffs. As someone who travels, the more obvious answer is American vehicles are ill suited for European or Japanese roads. From Wikipedia:

The Interstate Highway standards for the U.S. Interstate Highway System use a 12-foot (3.7 m) standard lane width, while narrower lanes are used on lower classification roads. In Europe, laws and road widths vary by country; the minimum widths of lanes are generally between 2.5 to 3.25 metres (8.2 to 10.7 ft)

In Japan:

major roads have lane widths of 3m (10’) to 3.5m (11’ 6”), side streets are often just wide enough for one small car. Tōkyō’s expressways are largely built with 3.25m (10’ 8”) lanes.

That says nothing of infrastructure, where people use public transit more in those countries and the home sizes are less than 1/2 the average square footage (2,600 US, 1,300 Japan, 458!! EU). Where are you going to park a your massive Ford or Chevy in Japan or Europe? So if you're single minded, you say "unfair marketplace". If you use the slightest logic you see why companies that sell nice, small vehicles do well in the EU and Japan.

They built products the can't sell globally except in...wait for it...China! Despite the propaganda US automakers are doing quite well there, we'll they were pre trade war at least (Ford's 2nd largest market, GM's largest. The CT6 will continue there, dead here, so in that metric even better for GM in China. But hey, who cares for well-researched truth when the official party line is so much more fulfilling for conformation bias...

[samurai]

Originally Posted by Klayman

So, since some of us like some facts:

EU charges 10% on US autos verses our 2.5% on their autos.

Japan has a virtual lock on dealerships, parts and service supply chains making it very expensive for the US auto market to get established. (Or any other auto market)

And....EU is considering lowering that 10% duty now.....wow.

China has no incentive to keep improving quality of anything they make past bare minimum and has a poor trade record.

I know tariffs and trade involve much more but.....

Lets just level the playing field some!

I have to disappoint you, but GMs failures are not because of EU duty. They don't offer any car besides ATS-V, CTS-V, Camaro and Corvette in Europe. People who buy these 50k€ don't care about the 10% duty that is included in the price.



Even without a duty I doubt that there is actually a demand for a Chevy Cruze or Malibu in europe since GM is just having like no-dealers in europe at all. There is one, ONE single dealer for the whole UK. In Germany we have live 12 dealers for all GM models. It's hilarious how less GM cares about Europe.



Take a look at Ford, they are doing pretty well in Europe with a lot of dealers, special models for the market. The Mustang started from zero to one of the best selling sportscars since the european launch in 2015.

[Klayman]

Originally Posted by Chazzz

If you truly want to level the playing field... ever wonder why Big3 pickups do so well in the US market? Namely the 25% levy on imported pickup trucks....

If that is true...lets drop it. (I will research)

[Klayman]

Originally Posted by samurai

I have to disappoint you, but GMs failures are not because of EU duty. They don't offer any car besides ATS-V, CTS-V, Camaro and Corvette in Europe. People who buy these 50k€ don't care about the 10% duty that is included in the price.



Even without a duty I doubt that there is actually a demand for a Chevy Cruze or Malibu in europe since GM is just having like no-dealers in europe at all. There is one, ONE single dealer for the whole UK. In Germany we have live 12 dealers for all GM models. It's hilarious how less GM cares about Europe.



Take a look at Ford, they are doing pretty well in Europe with a lot of dealers, special models for the market. The Mustang started from zero to one of the best selling sportscars since the european launch in 2015.

I'm not defending GM....