GM announces plant closings and ending production of several sedans

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

IMO, it would have happened anyways, as small cars have never been profitable vs the Japanese gov't subsidized auto industry.

I also think Trump's Tariffs are the straw that broke the camel's back at both GM and Ford. It pushed these cars into the red and it just doesn't work anymore.

So the strategy is to just let the Japanese and Koreans have the car market. US automakers are out. They make far more money selling vehicles that cost $35k+, and they just can't afford to compete.

The writing has been on the wall for decades. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

And it shouldn't be a surprise that tariffs are going to cost Americans jobs and financial well being either.

GM already said the decision had nothing to do with the Tarrifs, they had been planning this for some time.

[LateBrakeU2]

The next refresh for Camaro has been placed on indefinite hold, all focus has been placed on driverless/EV. Barra has stated if sales don't improve, it's axed.

[lawguy85]

Originally Posted by fastball

So were we supposed to just let China continue to rape us on the trade deficit? American companies would rather go bankrupt than fix their trade deficit with China, and that's why Trump had to do something. Is the tariffs the right answer? Probably not, but it's a good attempt and smacking the people who need to be smacked.

Again, nothing but conjecture and hero worship. Another fact, we just hit a record trade deficit, the first in 12 years.

It's like the 3 stooges bit where one of them tries to punch another and ends up punching himself in the face. Would be great comedy if we weren't seeing the consequences daily...

[JohnCobalt]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

The next refresh for Camaro has been placed on indefinite hold, all focus has been placed on driverless/EV. Barra has stated if sales don't improve, it's axed.

Do you have a link for that?

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

The next refresh for Camaro has been placed on indefinite hold, all focus has been placed on driverless/EV. Barra has stated if sales don't improve, it's axed.

The first I've heard of this. Can you provide a link to a news article?

[6sigma]

Originally Posted by SSport16

Unfortunately the writing has been on the wall for a long time for sedans, and really passenger cars in general, big or small. Small compacts thrived when gas /oil was high. Now that gas is pretty low and oil is as well, they don't sell well, same goes for hybrids/electric cars, etc. People want SUV's/CUV's, it is that simple really. The 2nd gen Cruze is a train wreck from a "looks" standpoint compared to the 1st gen. The Impala is very good car, has sold pretty well through its current gen, but was on the chopping block for sometime now, just how it goes. Now Cadillac is an interesting one, will they chop the CT6, that is only a couple of years old and was supposed to be its flagship for now until a CT8/Escala would show up. If they want to compete with the Germans, then I would say no, CT6 is here to stay, but I am not so sure what Cadillac's plans are. I am sour on Cadillac right now, loved my SRX when I had it, but the XT5 is just blah, V-Series is very nice, but who the hell knows what their plans are, all over the place and no clear direction!

It is confusing. I actually bought a 1st gen Cruze (manual ECO) as a high mileage commuter when I was driving 35k miles per year. It was actually a pretty good little car and I became a Cruze fan. The 2nd gen is missing something - even the diesel hatch, which I thought I'd like. I no longer need a car like that but it wouldn't be on my short list if I did.

Cadillac is a different story. I think GM would have kept the CT6 if they could, but since it is built at the Impala plant and that car platform is dying they had to let it go. Prob wasn't enough sales to support CT6 only at that plant.

XT5 is nice, my wife drives one and likes it better than her previous Yukon Denali. It is a FWD crossover, not a truck. The XT4 also looks good but I have not seen one up close yet. XT5 is getting a refresh for 2020 and then with the rumored XT6 the Cadillac SUV/CUV range doesn't look too bad. Their cars though - I don't know what they are doing - CTS/ATS/XTS is dead or dying. CT6 is dead. Are they banking on CT8/Escala? Are they giving up on Cadillac cars altogether?

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by fastball

So were we supposed to just let China continue to rape us on the trade deficit? American companies would rather go bankrupt than fix their trade deficit with China, and that's why Trump had to do something. Is the tariffs the right answer? Probably not, but it's a good attempt and smacking the people who need to be smacked.

the only thing that will correct the market is if the common things that cost a company in one country to produce their product is the same as in our country.

So you can hope for boosting china's economy so that they're just as expensive with their quality of life as we are or, if we are just too relatively high in our quality of life compared to the rest of the world, we'll be reduced until an equilibrium is reached.

everything else is synthetic and will fail.

If you want to think of how things could get better, you have to look for things that make poor economies rich. I doubt you'd prefer the alternative, where our rich economy is normalized to the poorer ones. That's usually a recipe for authoritarianism and means we didn't learn anything from what started WW2.

[TJay74]

As a ex-GM employee who's father retired after 30 years with GM I have seen my fair share of the issues with GM. Quality control is out the window, GM really should slow down the assembly line speed and instead of worrying about getting a unit off of the line ever 60-75 seconds. Spend more time on quality control would go worlds ahead to help consumers feel confidant in their purchase.

Spend some advertising money on some other vehicles than the trucks and SUV market. Sure, we know those are the bread and butter vehicles, but they shouldnt forget the Corvette nor Camaro. Want people to get excited about a vehicle, show them the vehicles exist.

Do more consumer focus groups on refresh and redesign, this would help them avoid the issue they are having with the new 2019 SS front end and keep them from having to redesign the front end again in order to not kill the sales of the car again.

I dont see GM dropping the Camaro, they already know that was one of the worst mistakes they made back in 2002. Sadly there was no way around it due to the way the contract was written with the Canadian St Therese plant, the Canadian UAW had worded their contract that when the 4th gen production was done that no other F-body could be made anywhere else and it had to be built there. That is a huge reason why GM killed the F-body platform, to get out from under that UAW contract and plant.

If you want to see the Domestic automakers and GM get stronger, sadly they need to kill the UAW off and get out from under those UAW contracts. It wont happen as it will require them Big 3 to step up against the UAW and do nothing while walk-outs and strikes happen, no way the Big 3 or even GM can handle that kind of lost revenue.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by JohnCobalt

Do you have a link for that?

From a very reliable source within, take it FWIW not public info..yet.

[JohnCobalt]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

From a very reliable source within, take it FWIW not public info..yet.

Cool, thank you.

[Chazzz]

Last time I checked things were going pretty darn good overall “before” the corporate tax cuts and trade tariffs.... If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, why mess with a booming economy....Just Sayin

[Jim50thSS]

The idea that there isn't a market for these cars is absurd. I think the problem is that the price for these cars is what is driving them out of the market. I love my car but I feel dumb for paying almost 50gs for it. I considered buying a Yukon until I saw the price tag. Ten years ago, I could have bought the Denali AWD for the same price as the base model SLE 2WD. In time they will struggle competing with the trucks and SUV's as well.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DorkMissile

IMO it really has nothing to do with the type if car, it is the fact that the domestic car companies cant make as good of commodity vehicle as the Japanese or Koreans. Not saying they cant make a good car, GM can make a good $40k 2 door performance car, but they cant make as good of a $20k 4 door sedan.

Throw in the fact that the deprecation on a domestic sedan is 2-3x that of a Japanese or European equivalent.

I agree with this ^ I hate to say but it seems like they just can't make as good of a midsize sedan as the Japanese. I'll touch on that more later.

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

GM...needs to be revamped from the Top Down...starting with Berra. They complain that can't sell cars. Well look at them...they are boring cookie cutters except for the Camaro and Vette. We all saw the new Caddy they may build, we have other sweet looking Caddys but they never get built. Maybe if they built them they would sell. Trump is right...he told Berra to start building cars that sell instead of just giving up. I think its pretty sad that GM can't come up with a real campaign to build cars that sell. Just shows the wrong people are in place at the top.

I agree on the cars. They need to be better, and IMO if they copied the Japanese a little they could pull it off.

Originally Posted by oftenimitated

Just bought a new Honda Accord Sport. $23,500 before tax. its a 4 cyl turbo, manual, with a good number of features, adaptive cruise, lane assist, etc. Has 19" wheels on it, LED heads and tails. Only thing I wish it had was full leather and heated seats, maybe sunroof.



GM doesn't even have a car to compare at that price point. Cruze is smaller, malibu looks horrendous and doesn't have the options or price point with the options or even a manual option, smaller wheels etc. Impala looks good in LTZ form which is more $$, but is also a dated style. Chevy needs to stop putting so much chrome on their front ends, it looks cheap!! Like the styling of new chevy truck minus the mirror placement and they really didn't modernize the interior anymore like RAM did.



O

This ^ My Focus died earlier this month, and it put me behind the 8 ball to get a new car. Now it was before I was ready so I knew I had to get a responsible choice with the little guy, and keep it in a modest budget. I looked Fusion's, Malibu's and then Accord, Camry and Mazda6. My Mazda6 has adaptive cruise control, sunroof, 19" wheels, city brake assist, lane keep assist, 250HP, 310 LB/FT of tq, heated leatherette seats and auto climate control, the list price on my car was 30 and all of that was standard! Only option was the paint. Couldn't come close to that in a Fusion or a Malibu. A comparable Malibu was over 36K and the Fusion was over 35K. The Accord came really close, but I liked the way the Mazda drove much better. Even on the styling front, IMO the Mazda6 is the best looking midsize car in the class (slight bias!) and the accord is a close second. The Mazda is definitely the best driving car in the class and that along with the long list of standard features at a relatively low MSRP is what made me jump from domestic to the Japanese. I think Ford and GM could look across the pacific and see how they are building their midszie sedans and take some serious notes.

Originally Posted by Snowbird12

Here is some ideas for GM
Forget the GMC. And Chevy brands
Have one truck not 2 like the F150
Have one big Suv. Line not 2
Get 3 sizes of cars That look different
We bought a Cruze because of the style, now it looks like a malibu or Sonic or Impala
Stop the same product with different names like the small suv line
There are too many choices in the Camaro line with no easily defined model like the ss with the very small logo
Also with the age of computers, why cant we custom build our cars like the old days
Not everyone wants an SS with all the bells and whistles just a greatV8 with few options
I dont like the package option system they have
Dare to be different GM
Not everyone wants a cookie cutter car with black interior

I agree I don't like the option system the way they have it, but that makes it cheaper to manufacture instead of ala carte like they used to be. The Japanese makes (and now Ford to some extent on some models) are making it so that cars have basically 0 options. If you want different features you have to go up a trim level. I think this is better than needing a tech package or sun and fun package.

Originally Posted by Jim50thSS

The idea that there isn't a market for these cars is absurd. I think the problem is that the price for these cars is what is driving them out of the market. I love my car but I feel dumb for paying almost 50gs for it. I considered buying a Yukon until I saw the price tag. Ten years ago, I could have bought the Denali AWD for the same price as the base model SLE 2WD. In time they will struggle competing with the trucks and SUV's as well.

There is still a market for sedans, they just need to make them better. When I was looking, it wasn't really even close for me the Japanese sedans were way better,

[Chazzz]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

IMO, it would have happened anyways, as small cars have never been profitable vs the Japanese gov't subsidized auto industry.

I also think Trump's Tariffs are the straw that broke the camel's back at both GM and Ford. It pushed these cars into the red and it just doesn't work anymore.

So the strategy is to just let the Japanese and Koreans have the car market. US automakers are out. They make far more money selling vehicles that cost $35k+, and they just can't afford to compete.

The writing has been on the wall for decades. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

And it shouldn't be a surprise that tariffs are going to cost Americans jobs and financial well being either.

+1.... I agree with this 100% as there are simply no winners in a trade war....