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Old 03-17-2011, 02:47 AM   #10473
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Originally Posted by ibeck View Post
That would render the Z06, ZR1 and CTS-V completely useless. I don't think you should jump to conclusions just yet, we don't even know how much the ZL1 is going to produce it could still beat a 620 hp GT500 horsepower isn't the only aspect in winning a race.
ZR-1 puts out 636 H.P. And weighs approx. 700 lbs. less then Mustang so it is not useless. GM does not want to step on the toes of Corvette and Caddilac,so ZL-1 will not have more horsepower. It's been corporate policy forever not to outdo the more expensive cars in H.P.
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:40 AM   #10474
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There seems to be an overiding consensus, that the only merit that the Shelby GT500's prodigious horsepower is applicapable to,is giggly burn outs, and 0-60 racing in the high school parking lot.
Check out Car and Driver's 2/2011 issue,where they take 20 of the fastest 2011 cars to Virginia International Raceway and rank them on a real track.
The Shelby came in seventh,the Cadillac CTSV came in eighth.
Having owned two Camaros,a 2010 and a 2011,both 2SS/Rs,one stick and one auto,and also having owned 2 GT500s,2008 and 2011,unless you drive the cars you will never get it.
When you buy a Camaro,your first post will be,"what mod should I do first?"When you buy a Shelby, you just go out and enjoy it.
1 skip shift eliminator
2 short throw shifter
3 cold air intake
4 sway bars / all the way up to full Peddars
5 engine tuner/dyno tune
6 footwell lights
7 aftermarket nav
8 upgrade wheels and tires
The Shelby thrives in the real world,and you don't have to tinker around with it.I have no problem leaving 2 black tire marks ,which brings me to ....
9 rework limited slip to engage both rear wheels.
10 high performance headers up to complete exhaust
11 remove or paint bowties
By the time you add up ,all you have spent on mods,the price difference is not so big,and if you really want to pump up some power on a supercharged motor, it's easy and cheap.
The engine in the 2011 Shelby is essentially a wet sump Ford GT engine.Adding another 50 hp would be simply adjusting the tune.

Excuse my chinese, but wtf?
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:56 AM   #10475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbean View Post
There seems to be an overiding consensus, that the only merit that the Shelby GT500's prodigious horsepower is applicapable to,is giggly burn outs, and 0-60 racing in the high school parking lot.
Check out Car and Driver's 2/2011 issue,where they take 20 of the fastest 2011 cars to Virginia International Raceway and rank them on a real track.
The Shelby came in seventh,the Cadillac CTSV came in eighth.
Having owned two Camaros,a 2010 and a 2011,both 2SS/Rs,one stick and one auto,and also having owned 2 GT500s,2008 and 2011,unless you drive the cars you will never get it.
When you buy a Camaro,your first post will be,"what mod should I do first?"When you buy a Shelby, you just go out and enjoy it.
1 skip shift eliminator
2 short throw shifter
3 cold air intake
4 sway bars / all the way up to full Peddars
5 engine tuner/dyno tune
6 footwell lights
7 aftermarket nav
8 upgrade wheels and tires
The Shelby thrives in the real world,and you don't have to tinker around with it.I have no problem leaving 2 black tire marks ,which brings me to ....
9 rework limited slip to engage both rear wheels.
10 high performance headers up to complete exhaust
11 remove or paint bowties
By the time you add up ,all you have spent on mods,the price difference is not so big,and if you really want to pump up some power on a supercharged motor, it's easy and cheap.
The engine in the 2011 Shelby is essentially a wet sump Ford GT engine.Adding another 50 hp would be simply adjusting the tune.

I mean I like the GT500, but what does modding the Camaro have anything to do with it. Even if I had a GT500, I would not leave it stock so I could just blend in with the rest of them.
For the GT500 I would need:
1 - aftermarket wheels/tires
2 - lowering
3 - tail light blackouts
4 - exhaust
...and that just off the top of my head

Stock is boring with any car! Even a Ferrari needs a sweet set of aftermarket wheels.
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:02 AM   #10476
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Seems like there's a lot of sqirming and justifying going on in this thread... Won't be able to get traction, Camaro's outselling Mustang's, ugly rear end, live rear axle, driver's race, cost, blah blah blah. Bottom line: Unless Chevy and Dodge make some big changes, that new GT500 with 620+ hp is going to be the most badass "stock" muscle car made - performance wise. No if's, and's or but's. Game over.
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:12 AM   #10477
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fanboys are rolling strong today huh?
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:30 AM   #10478
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fanboys are rolling strong today huh?
Try checking out,"the ranch,"on the avatar,and you'll see the,"goods." If I own it, I'm not a dreamer or fanboy.Like I said in the post,"until you drive one, you won't get it."

Last edited by Blackbean; 03-17-2011 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:31 AM   #10479
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Try checking out,"My Garage,"on the avatar,and you'll see the,"goods." If I own it, I'm not a dreamer or fanboy.Like I said in the post,"until you drive one, you won't get it."
Loving the car bro!
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:50 AM   #10480
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You would be very surprised how many people STRETCH their finances to buy these cars. You think Corvette sales dropped by 50% in one year because it suddenly "got old"? That's a small factor -- the biggest reason is that the type of buyer in the market for a low to mid 50k car could no longer justify the risk when the economy tanked.

It's easy to say "Well, if they can afford something that expensive, they can afford more"....but that's not the case most of the time.

Price is a very sensitive part of product development. As you go up, sales decrease accordingly in the auto 'biz'.
Well spoken!!

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Old 03-17-2011, 08:34 AM   #10481
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Yes it looks like the GM and Ford rivalry is alive and well. Regretably I see a pattern from the past. Great affordable Super car vs out of control GAS prices and insurance premiums. Cars are much safer now than in the late 60's early 70's so insurance not so much. So the work around is get the gas price so high it will take em out of practicality. It worked in the past, will it happen again. Many here are probably to young to remember the gas lines of the 70's. It's around the corner until we get off the Mid East oil breast. my .02
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:07 AM   #10482
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That's a crystal ball prediction if I've ever seen one. If the car does bump up to 60k, it will be an all around far better car than the current version. The 2011 gt500 starts at 49k while in 2007 the car started at 40k, but sales haven't dropped since then and those upgrades were even less significant. If the car justifies the price, people will buy it and I'm sure svt will deliver. Maybe it won't be the same people, but it will sell.
We'll see...I'm not optimistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ MSCL View Post
Seems like there's a lot of sqirming and justifying going on in this thread... Won't be able to get traction, Camaro's outselling Mustang's, ugly rear end, live rear axle, driver's race, cost, blah blah blah. Bottom line: Unless Chevy and Dodge make some big changes, that new GT500 with 620+ hp is going to be the most badass "stock" muscle car made - performance wise. No if's, and's or but's. Game over.
IF....horsepower is your only measure of "badass", and IF 20-40hp advantage is enough to declare "game over"...then yes. I'd find it hard to disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Well spoken!!

Crowley
Thanks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit1 View Post
Yes it looks like the GM and Ford rivalry is alive and well. Regretably I see a pattern from the past. Great affordable Super car vs out of control GAS prices and insurance premiums. Cars are much safer now than in the late 60's early 70's so insurance not so much. So the work around is get the gas price so high it will take em out of practicality. It worked in the past, will it happen again. Many here are probably to young to remember the gas lines of the 70's. It's around the corner until we get off the Mid East oil breast. my .02
There's a lot different today than the 70s...I guess I'm optimistic we'll see performance endure...it just may not be in the form of 600 hp firebreathers...
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:13 AM   #10483
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Cost is a big part of it for sure. I almost bought a Camaro. I just couldn't get dealers to "deal" with me on one. They were all talking $5K to $10K over sticker back in Feb 09' when I was shopping cash in hand. One dealer literally let me walk out of their sales office with a check in my hand to order a 2SS RS in Inferno Orange.

I went and test drove the Challenger and loved it. Never thought I'd own a Dodge as I thought they were POS, but the car blew me away. Comfortable, stunning in looks, and plenty of power. I looked at the SRT and the R/T. At the time I purchased the big three were in trouble and Dodge had very special pricing on the R/T but not the SRT. This special pricing made the SRT $11K more than the R/T I purchased. I decided to go with the R/T with full intentions of making it much more of a car than the SRT and stay within the same over all price range.

SO, I built the motor, supercharged, suspension, etc. I recently added DSS Level 5 axles which put me over the price of a SRT by about $1500, but my car is nearly 600RWHP now (add 15% for crank and it's about 670). I accomplished my goal. I knew Dodge would never build a car with that much power.

However, had I bought a GT500, I'd be about the same money. For a $800 tune and single pulley swap I could be at 700RWHP.

If you wanna buy a car that can have amazing power for very little effort I don't see how you can beat a GT500. Not liking the looks is subjective but I don't think anyone can argue that they are a powerhouse.

I eventually went back and test drove a 2SS RS Camaro and honestly it just wasn't for me. So, we've now started looking at the Mustangs as a second hot rod to keep the Challenger company. I'd love to have a GT500. My only complaint is that the interior is a little cramped compared to my Challenger.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:19 AM   #10484
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I'm just gonna put this picture up again because I know Ford is all over this site.

UNLEASH THE TERMINATOR!!!
these pics do look nice, I might say..
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:37 AM   #10485
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When you buy a Camaro,your first post will be,"what mod should I do first?"When you buy a Shelby, you just go out and enjoy it.
Why do you not compare apples to apples? Mustang GT to Camaro SS and Shelby to ZL1, no? I'm willing to bet the ZL1 owners will get the same results out of their car as your are from your Shelby...
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:48 AM   #10486
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This 2013 GT500/SVT Cobra will be the king of pony cars and could possibly be the last true pony car, as our US pony car market transforms into world class sport coupe's

I'm glad I choose the model I did at the price I got it for...
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