Modifying ZL1 Pump - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

racesloth · 03-07-2017, 03:23 AM

Wondering why upgrading the fuel pump in a 5th gen is so expensive.

I am from the Ford world. I bought my Camaro because they are so rare in the UK and that makes them more fun here than a new 5.0 GT...

But modifying the fuel pumps in mustangs is so much cheaper. Why has no one made a simple setup to pull out the stock ZL1/1lE fuel pump and swap in a bigger pump? Back in the day I swapped a 390lph hour pump into my stock 5.0 mustang set up no sweat and under $400. What am I missing? Is it something in the engineering or is it designed in? No offence on these dual pump set ups but it seems overly pricey for what you actually get.

My 1500HP turbo fuel set up on my foxbody as it sits now I pieced together for under a grand - I did do my own sump on the a new stock tank.

As much as it seems that everyone is running at slighly above what ZL1 pump/FPCM can handle the next step up is >2x as much...

Stubbsy · 03-07-2017, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racesloth

Wondering why upgrading the fuel pump in a 5th gen is so expensive.

I am from the Ford world. I bought my Camaro because they are so rare in the UK and that makes them more fun here than a new 5.0 GT...

But modifying the fuel pumps in mustangs is so much cheaper. Why has no one made a simple setup to pull out the stock ZL1/1lE fuel pump and swap in a bigger pump? Back in the day I swapped a 390lph hour pump into my stock 5.0 mustang set up no sweat and under $400. What am I missing? Is it something in the engineering or is it designed in? No offence on these dual pump set ups but it seems overly pricey for what you actually get.

My 1500HP turbo fuel set up on my foxbody as it sits now I pieced together for under a grand - I did do my own sump on the a new stock tank.

As much as it seems that everyone is running at slighly above what ZL1 pump/FPCM can handle the next step up is >2x as much...

I'm hearing you Racesloth, my Livernoise dual pump set up was $1600 Australian by the time it got here with our shitty exchange rate.

-Im.z2ight- · 03-07-2017, 07:55 AM

I hate its super expensive but i will be going the zl1 route until i got all the supporting mods for 900hp.

DaFisch · 03-07-2017, 10:49 AM

went with zl1 pump at 606 hp. didn't switch to the squash dual return pump until I got a new engine/trans & twins

sscamaro · 03-07-2017, 11:09 AM

I paid $278.00 for the fuel pump. It was a 4 hour job replacing the pump.

racesloth · 03-08-2017, 07:24 AM

No real answers to my question - Maybe those that know don't want to give it away. Or maybe the way it is managed in the ECU is too difficult for swaping the way we did on the foxbody 5.0's.

So I ordered a ZL1 Pump from gmpartsdirect for $236. I am going install it with FPCM for now. Then work with a friend who has an electrical engineering background to see what can be done with the stock fuel bucket to say, swap in two bosch 044's

There has to be another way...

2012LS3VERT · 03-08-2017, 09:26 AM

You can modify the stock pump hanger. However, the fuel system in the car is set up for no return with Pulse Width Modulation control, controlled by the ECM through the FPCM. You can't just swap in a pump or two and leave everything else. Aftermarket pumps also draw more current, so that would have to be dealt with as well, along with possibly not being compatible with PWM control. Then if the bucket is modified incorrectly, the venturi pump won't draw fuel from the other side of the tank.

Batmanntexas · 03-08-2017, 10:39 AM

I'm hearing you. I bought three pumps to do exactly what you are asking about. My choke point is exactly what 2012LS3VERT mentioned about the venturi pump. The PWM control is easy to work. I bought a Deatschwerks pump that is compatible with PWM, and the other two pumps are going to be controlled via HOBBS switches.
The stock fuel bucket will not fit all three pumps without modification, which i can do, I just haven't figured out a good solution for pulling the fuel from the driver side saddle tank. Open to suggestions.....

-Scott

cc-rider · 03-08-2017, 11:26 AM

There is finally a mid price point option out there that maximizes the retrunless PWM system. Read here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ight=Vaporworx

So you have the ZL1 pump and ADM FPCM as the $500ish option. Then you can do the Vaporworx with double pump for $1000ish. Then you have the full return squash for $2000ish.

I wouldn't try to mess too hard with the ZL1 pump options. The ECM and FPCM have limitations and people have been trying for years and years to hack into it and make it work better.

shibbs · 03-08-2017, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmanntexas

I'm hearing you. I bought three pumps to do exactly what you are asking about. My choke point is exactly what 2012LS3VERT mentioned about the venturi pump. The PWM control is easy to work. I bought a Deatschwerks pump that is compatible with PWM, and the other two pumps are going to be controlled via HOBBS switches.
The stock fuel bucket will not fit all three pumps without modification, which i can do, I just haven't figured out a good solution for pulling the fuel from the driver side saddle tank. Open to suggestions.....

-Scott

I work at a BMW dealership, and they have similarly designed tanks with a "handover pump" which uses a venturi in the right side to pass fuel from the left to the right side. The venturi runs off the return flow and is a 16-14-6-755-880 if you can use that at all, but I'm sure there are cheaper aftermarket solutions than a BMW OEM part.

Batmanntexas · 03-08-2017, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shibbs

I work at a BMW dealership, and they have similarly designed tanks with a "handover pump" which uses a venturi in the right side to pass fuel from the left to the right side. The venturi runs off the return flow and is a 16-14-6-755-880 if you can use that at all, but I'm sure there are cheaper aftermarket solutions than a BMW OEM part.

Interesting. Maybe I can install a venturi in the discharge side of the main pump. Thanks for the tip!

-Scott

racesloth · 03-08-2017, 03:21 PM

Since the ZL1 pump delivers 250lph at 65, I am wondering why someone has figured out a pump that can replace the pump in the ZL1 fuel pum basket/module that delivers 350lph at 65.... Ho hum....

Anyways just got done reading everything on the Vaporworx site - much appreciate their posting the data.

CarlC · 03-16-2017, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racesloth

Since the ZL1 pump delivers 250lph at 65, I am wondering why someone has figured out a pump that can replace the pump in the ZL1 fuel pum basket/module that delivers 350lph at 65.... Ho hum....

Anyways just got done reading everything on the Vaporworx site - much appreciate their posting the data.

I'm glad to help ;-)

We can do full PWM returnless on twin 450lph '267 Walbro pump arrangements as well. Unlike the factory fuel modules, the twin 450's need an in-line fine element filter.

2010_camaro · 03-17-2017, 10:23 PM

I took my ZL1 pump and added twin walbro 450s. Cost me $300 to modify the pump. I went with a return style fuel setup. I bypassed the FPCM all together.

03-07-2017, 03:23 AM	#1
racesloth Dan Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS IOM Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Georgia, USA not the other one Posts: 1,041	Modifying ZL1 Pump Wondering why upgrading the fuel pump in a 5th gen is so expensive. I am from the Ford world. I bought my Camaro because they are so rare in the UK and that makes them more fun here than a new 5.0 GT... But modifying the fuel pumps in mustangs is so much cheaper. Why has no one made a simple setup to pull out the stock ZL1/1lE fuel pump and swap in a bigger pump? Back in the day I swapped a 390lph hour pump into my stock 5.0 mustang set up no sweat and under $400. What am I missing? Is it something in the engineering or is it designed in? No offence on these dual pump set ups but it seems overly pricey for what you actually get. My 1500HP turbo fuel set up on my foxbody as it sits now I pieced together for under a grand - I did do my own sump on the a new stock tank. As much as it seems that everyone is running at slighly above what ZL1 pump/FPCM can handle the next step up is >2x as much... __________________ Dan 2010 IOM SS YSI-B, Pat G Cam, Ported CTS-V Heads, ARH LTs MBRP 3" exhaust http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ysi

03-07-2017, 07:55 AM	#3
-Im.z2ight- Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS "Diablo" Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: California Posts: 135	I hate its super expensive but i will be going the zl1 route until i got all the supporting mods for 900hp. __________________ Diablo - 2013 Camaro 2SS Mod List: GM NPP Dual mode exhaust(Fuse pulled), AGP Twin Turbo 54/57, ZL1 Fuel pump with flex fuel sensor, ADM FPCM, ID1000 Injectors, diamond racing forged pistons, BTR twin turbo cam stage 2, Lunati forged H beam rods, BTR trunnions, ARP head studs, Vararam power wedge, MightyMouse Wild catch can, PFADT 1.25" drop springs, BMR Strut tower brace, 20x10.5 Giovanna Mecca rear and 20x9 Giovanna Mecca fronts, R1 Concepts drilled and slotted rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Night Owl RGB halo kit, and more... Future Mods: Dual fuel pump and more...

03-07-2017, 10:49 AM	#4
DaFisch Master Amateur Mechanic Drives: Victory Red 2011 2SS/RS Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: South Barrington, IL Posts: 1,720	went with zl1 pump at 606 hp. didn't switch to the squash dual return pump until I got a new engine/trans & twins __________________ 2011 Victory Red 22/RS Forged 418 Ls3 from Texas Speed, LSX heads from Texas Speed, Tick Turbo cam, Jakes/PCM/Billet 4l80e, 3200 Stall converter from Circle D, DSS 750 hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, stock 3.23 gears, TSW Wheels Front 20x10 Rear 20x11.5, Fabberage Twin Turbo Supercharger Killer kit with Upgraded Turbos, Squash Dual fuel pump, Full BMR Suspension/bushings, Holly High Rise intake manifold, ID1300 Injectors, Megan Coilovers, PCM of NC plug and play trans kit. HP/TQ TBA

03-07-2017, 11:09 AM	#5
sscamaro Drives: 2010 2SS, 2017 Silverado LTZ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Denver,PA Posts: 3,195 View My Garage	I paid $278.00 for the fuel pump. It was a 4 hour job replacing the pump. __________________ 2010 2SS/RS Victory Red, MN6, 1-7/8 Kooks LT Headers, SLP Axle Back, Edelbrock E-Force S/C, ZL1 Fuel Pump, 72# Injectors, JRE fuel rail upgrade, Roto-Fab CAI, Elite Catch Can, Billet Hurst Shifter, DSS 1000HP axles, Spohn Trailing Arms, Toe Links, Lower Control Arms. Chrome American Racing Torq-Thrust wheels. 546/rwhp & 522/rwtq & 10.9# boost Tune by Jeremy Formato.

03-08-2017, 07:24 AM	#6
racesloth Dan Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS IOM Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Georgia, USA not the other one Posts: 1,041	No real answers to my question - Maybe those that know don't want to give it away. Or maybe the way it is managed in the ECU is too difficult for swaping the way we did on the foxbody 5.0's. So I ordered a ZL1 Pump from gmpartsdirect for $236. I am going install it with FPCM for now. Then work with a friend who has an electrical engineering background to see what can be done with the stock fuel bucket to say, swap in two bosch 044's There has to be another way... __________________ Dan 2010 IOM SS YSI-B, Pat G Cam, Ported CTS-V Heads, ARH LTs MBRP 3" exhaust http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ysi Last edited by racesloth; 03-08-2017 at 07:38 AM.

03-08-2017, 09:26 AM	#7
2012LS3VERT Drives: 2012 2SSRS Vert, Black w/M6 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 1,265	You can modify the stock pump hanger. However, the fuel system in the car is set up for no return with Pulse Width Modulation control, controlled by the ECM through the FPCM. You can't just swap in a pump or two and leave everything else. Aftermarket pumps also draw more current, so that would have to be dealt with as well, along with possibly not being compatible with PWM control. Then if the bucket is modified incorrectly, the venturi pump won't draw fuel from the other side of the tank.

03-08-2017, 10:39 AM	#8
Batmanntexas Drives: 2012 Camaro SS (2SS) Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Stafford, VA Posts: 1,372 View My Garage	I'm hearing you. I bought three pumps to do exactly what you are asking about. My choke point is exactly what 2012LS3VERT mentioned about the venturi pump. The PWM control is easy to work. I bought a Deatschwerks pump that is compatible with PWM, and the other two pumps are going to be controlled via HOBBS switches. The stock fuel bucket will not fit all three pumps without modification, which i can do, I just haven't figured out a good solution for pulling the fuel from the driver side saddle tank. Open to suggestions..... -Scott __________________ 745RWHP/634RWTQ on 93 @ 10psi 806/676 on E85 @ 10psi COTW 9/8/14

03-08-2017, 11:26 AM	#9
cc-rider Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,171	There is finally a mid price point option out there that maximizes the retrunless PWM system. Read here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ight=Vaporworx So you have the ZL1 pump and ADM FPCM as the $500ish option. Then you can do the Vaporworx with double pump for $1000ish. Then you have the full return squash for $2000ish. I wouldn't try to mess too hard with the ZL1 pump options. The ECM and FPCM have limitations and people have been trying for years and years to hack into it and make it work better.

03-08-2017, 03:21 PM	#12
racesloth Dan Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS IOM Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Georgia, USA not the other one Posts: 1,041	Since the ZL1 pump delivers 250lph at 65, I am wondering why someone has figured out a pump that can replace the pump in the ZL1 fuel pum basket/module that delivers 350lph at 65.... Ho hum.... Anyways just got done reading everything on the Vaporworx site - much appreciate their posting the data. __________________ Dan 2010 IOM SS YSI-B, Pat G Cam, Ported CTS-V Heads, ARH LTs MBRP 3" exhaust http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ysi

03-17-2017, 10:23 PM	#14
2010_camaro Drives: 2014 Camaro SS Join Date: May 2011 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 2,238 View My Garage	I took my ZL1 pump and added twin walbro 450s. Cost me $300 to modify the pump. I went with a return style fuel setup. I bypassed the FPCM all together. __________________ MODS 6.0 forged iron block, TH400, B&M shifter, DSS axles & driveshaft, Viking / BMR suspension, Full custom fuel system with cell, Twin 76mm teriyaki tornados on 24lbs. https://www.instagram.com/whoopa_ss/