easy ANSWER to 2013 GT500 dilemma!

[MaroSS]

Originally Posted by Kluch

Yes, but the mods will VOID your waranty. You can mod anything and make it a beast, but getting it to come that way with a factory powertrain waranty is why people are so deflated by Ford's announcement.

I like how that was put without bashing the ZL1 ... The ZL1 is a great car, but its still about people on a budget and wanting to keep their warranties. I'm Just worried about best bang for buck with factory warranty.

[Weezerj]

Ok, once upon a time I was hoping to get a ZL1 camaro....until I remembered that I was married and need my wife's permission to spend my own monies...

Now I own a 2012 SS....... So I have been reading all of the Zl1 vrs GT500 mumbo jumbo that last 2 days and while interesting, doesn't really apply to me. I do LOVE that Chevy and Ford are going head to head, as long as this doesn't create the type of battle that instead of delivering technologies to the cars that my wife says I can afford.....drives the price up to where i cannot afford any of the american muscle that I love so much....

So, with that being said, i have a couple of questions that I hope someone in the "know" can answer for me......and please, if you are a Ford fanboy, show some restraint and no snide comments....

1. ZL1, ZL2, ZL3? Why not offer some other ZL engine packages? Since rummors are flying that the 2013 GT500 will be north of 60K, why not offer a LS7 and possible LS9 engine upgrade for those willing to spend the money to have a car with as mush HP (or potential HP in the LS7 case) as the Ford?

The math seems to work out....roughly 15K for a LSA motor, 23K for a LS9. Thats 8K additional...$54,099 + $8000 is $62,000. I am SURE that there are camaro enthusiasts that would be willing to pay that much, so why not offer it?

I have read others say that chevy would never let the camaro have that engine because its the engine of the flagship ZR1 corvette....but it still won't be as fast as the ZR1 due to the weight, correct? So in essence, the ZR1 would still be the fastest Chevy and still be the flagship...

am I flawed in my thinking?

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by NicolasKL

No, you had it right the first time.

[2ndCamaro79]

C'mon Ford/Mopar guys you all know the SLP ZL1 will crush you both!

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by serpent

Which car do you prefer as far as driving it goes?
SS or GT500?

stock for stock, it is not even close, I prefer the GT500 hands down and not just for its power but its excellent handling and feel..this is mainly due to the lighter weight and the SVT performance package. My SS put down close to 600rwhp with the blower and other mods and if I am just going straight line, I would prefer it despite the wheel hop and stock tires. Oddly enough, despite the popularity of the Camaro based on the transformers movies, I get a lot more looks and compliments on the Shelby. Kids and young girls love the Camaro though.

[2ndCamaro79]

As far as Ford VS Chevy: The SLP ZL1 puts a end to all the talk !

0 to 60: 3.2 sec
1/4 mile: 11.1 sec at 129mph

These times were done on street tires so you do the math Ford guys

[Kluch]

Originally Posted by IcePick06

That's always a debate too on forums. "will mods VOID my warranty?" Plenty of info out there suggest the answer is "NO" if you do research. Lingenfelter offers a warranty on their parts anyway. Plus I have to believe that with all the "beefy" powertrain components added in the ZL1 (v.s. the SS camaro) and how stable the camaro chassis is in general...bumping the HP up to 650 would pose no threat to any of the factory components. Plus with a reputable company like Lingenfelter, I have to believe they've put the R&D time into their products to ensure your ZL1 will probably survive 99% of track usage (with proper maintenance along the way) anyway.

Lingenfelter warranties THEIR parts for 1 year, I believe. They are an amazing company and I do not question their reputation. But their reputation and limited warranty is hardly a substitute for your 5 year GM powertrain warranty. True there are "mod friendly" dealerships, but if you have to replace the $15K engine at 5K miles someone's gonna start asking questions! Some V guys on the boards have run into problems (not specifically with Lingenfelter).

If you don't care about a warranty or do your own work exclusively, then that's great and modding is a great option.

I think for the purposes of comparing the ZL1 and the shelby, we need to keep mods out of the discussion.

[SSTAT]

Im putting a copy of an earlier post of mine below, and Im probably going to keep posting it until I get like a cult following in support of my opinion, 'cause you know, I must be right, after all, Im on a forum. In all seriousness, chevy has certainly done durability testing on the LSA at higher boost, and Im sure it can take it along with the rest of the drivetrain based on what we've seen in the aftermarket and based on testing with other LS series engines. I think chevy was just planning on holding off and using that power in future years or whatever. Assuming that, I know the ZL1 designers, engineers, all of them are beating the conference doors down in detroit to release the hounds NOW, for 2012, and I think we as a group need to come together and show our support for this. And before you guys start, this ISNT about horsepower, this is about the legendary ZL1 name and what it represents, and its about respect. Read my old post below (if you havent fallen asleep yet) and let me know what you think...

I'll try to keep this short. I road race a camaro in NASA competition, I am the driver, mechanic and pit crew, so before I say anything else I want to say that I am very proud of what chevy has done with the ZL1, especially given its weight. Secondly, I agree with many here about how regardless of what comes out next year, or from whom, the ZL1 is awesome how it stands. Here is my problem. I believe there was a statement quoted on this site from the ZL1 development team that went something like "we dont just want to beat the mustang, we want to destroy it". Chevy threw down the gauntlet. Now ford of course with a 2013 model has the obvious advantage of besting whatever HP numbers chevy quotes for the 2012 and would be stupid not to do so. Heres the thing: Ford intentionally, and ruthlessly, EMBARRASED the ZL1 team with this announcement. They didnt just best the numbers by 20-30hp as is usually done, they murdered the numbers with 70hp. And I just cant help from hearing that quote again and again in my head. And I dont think this should be moved to a ford vs GM forum, this is a ZL1 issue. This is a matter of a promise to us loyalists, this is a matter of respect and answering not typical model year 'one upsmanship' but a direct insult from ford to chevy. And I understand and (to a degree) agree that HP isnt everything but look what this has done to the ZL1 in the press in just 1 day. Guys, we simply cannot take this lying down, we cannot let the ZL1 get beat by the 500 after all this effort, we cannot. Screw 2013, this needs to be answered NOW. I am sure durability testing has been done on the LSA at higher numbers anticipating future year enhancements, if not slap a pulley on that girl at get to work because the future is as of 11/15/2011. Scott, I've met you, we've talked, you love camaro more than anybody, this can be done. Raising the boost on a CTSV to 12.5 with pulleys and a tune, nothing else, raises HP by about 100, cool the IATs a little more if you have to and get it done. This was not a model year 'gotcha', this was an insult and should be taken as such. This is your legendary ZL1, this is our legendary ZL1. I have and have always had faith. Godfather - this can be done!

your loyal follower -

Should we put together a poll, or a list of 'signatures' or something, or am I crazy?

[sed34]

Originally Posted by Kluch

Lingenfelter warranties THEIR parts for 1 year, I believe. They are an amazing company and I do not question their reputation. But their reputation and limited warranty is hardly a substitute for your 5 year GM powertrain warranty. True there are "mod friendly" dealerships, but if you have to replace the $15K engine at 5K miles someone's gonna start asking questions! Some V guys on the boards have run into problems (not specifically with Lingenfelter).

If you don't care about a warranty or do your own work exclusively, then that's great and modding is a great option.

I think for the purposes of comparing the ZL1 and the shelby, we need to keep mods out of the discussion.

not only powertrain, but everything. suspension, brakes, power steering, radiator, hoses, etc, all goes out the window. anything that goes wrong with the car you have to pay yourself. Not just engine components.

So yes Lingenfelter warranties their builds, but that's it. Everything else is your problem.

[Kluch]

Originally Posted by SSTAT

Im putting a copy of an earlier post of mine below, and Im probably going to keep posting it until I get like a cult following in support of my opinion, 'cause you know, I must be right, after all, Im on a forum. In all seriousness, chevy has certainly done durability testing on the LSA at higher boost, and Im sure it can take it along with the rest of the drivetrain based on what we've seen in the aftermarket and based on testing with other LS series engines. I think chevy was just planning on holding off and using that power in future years or whatever. Assuming that, I know the ZL1 designers, engineers, all of them are beating the conference doors down in detroit to release the hounds NOW, for 2012, and I think we as a group need to come together and show our support for this. And before you guys start, this ISNT about horsepower, this is about the legendary ZL1 name and what it represents, and its about respect. Read my old post below (if you havent fallen asleep yet) and let me know what you think...

I'll try to keep this short. I road race a camaro in NASA competition, I am the driver, mechanic and pit crew, so before I say anything else I want to say that I am very proud of what chevy has done with the ZL1, especially given its weight. Secondly, I agree with many here about how regardless of what comes out next year, or from whom, the ZL1 is awesome how it stands. Here is my problem. I believe there was a statement quoted on this site from the ZL1 development team that went something like "we dont just want to beat the mustang, we want to destroy it". Chevy threw down the gauntlet. Now ford of course with a 2013 model has the obvious advantage of besting whatever HP numbers chevy quotes for the 2012 and would be stupid not to do so. Heres the thing: Ford intentionally, and ruthlessly, EMBARRASED the ZL1 team with this announcement. They didnt just best the numbers by 20-30hp as is usually done, they murdered the numbers with 70hp. And I just cant help from hearing that quote again and again in my head. And I dont think this should be moved to a ford vs GM forum, this is a ZL1 issue. This is a matter of a promise to us loyalists, this is a matter of respect and answering not typical model year 'one upsmanship' but a direct insult from ford to chevy. And I understand and (to a degree) agree that HP isnt everything but look what this has done to the ZL1 in the press in just 1 day. Guys, we simply cannot take this lying down, we cannot let the ZL1 get beat by the 500 after all this effort, we cannot. Screw 2013, this needs to be answered NOW. I am sure durability testing has been done on the LSA at higher numbers anticipating future year enhancements, if not slap a pulley on that girl at get to work because the future is as of 11/15/2011. Scott, I've met you, we've talked, you love camaro more than anybody, this can be done. Raising the boost on a CTSV to 12.5 with pulleys and a tune, nothing else, raises HP by about 100, cool the IATs a little more if you have to and get it done. This was not a model year 'gotcha', this was an insult and should be taken as such. This is your legendary ZL1, this is our legendary ZL1. I have and have always had faith. Godfather - this can be done!

your loyal follower -

Should we put together a poll, or a list of 'signatures' or something, or am I crazy?

I think the zl1 and all its tech will prove that building a performance car is much more complicated than adding horsepower. Wouldn't it be a huge slap to Ford's face if despite the 650 ponies in the shelby the zl1 posted a better ring and quarter mile time? Yes indeed. Much more of a slap than if we gave the zl1 more power to make the numbers more on par.

[1BADZL1]

Originally Posted by BiggFoot

Coming to a location near you early next year!! LOL, although boost will be at 14 psi I believe?

Well... this is basically all the Ford Shelby GT500 owners are already doing modding theyre GT500.... if it works for the Ford, and since we already have a smaller TSV on the LSA... My simple thinking is why would that not work for the LSA as well? Not a whole lot to change out Id think other than maybe pulleys. How big a deal would that be? The Super Charger is already there...
Im willing to bet that mod in itself would boost it from 580 to over the peak of 600 if not closer to the target 650....
It makes TOTAL sense to me anyway....
and why not? The mustang guys say a boost from 9 to 15 PSI!
Thats a lot more boost! Lets say the bigger charger gives us 640 hp...
Why could not the LSA be punched out for a few extra ponies if need be eh??

Screw all the cam mods, bigger pistons... twin cam....yea all that will work but why not keep it simple from where it already is?
I do not know why they did not put a bigger charger on it to start with...
its available.....

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by MY68RS

Well... this is basically all the Ford Shelby GT500 owners are already doing modding theyre GT500.... if it works for the Ford, and since we already have a smaller TSV on the LSA... My simple thinking is why would that not work for the LSA as well? Not a whole lot to change out Id think other than maybe pulleys. How big a deal would that be? The Super Charger is already there...
Im willing to bet that mod in itself would boost it from 580 to over the peak of 600 if not closer to the target 650....
It makes TOTAL sense to me anyway....
and why not? The mustang guys say a boost from 9 to 15 PSI!
Thats a lot more boost! Lets say the bigger charger gives us 640 hp...
Why could not the LSA be punched out for a few extra ponies if need be eh??

Screw all the cam mods, bigger pistons... twin cam....yea all that will work but why not keep it simple from where it already is?
I do not know why they did not put a bigger charger on it to start with...
its available.....

The LSA isn't built like Ford's Modular Engine or the LS9. The latter two have forged internals which are great for boost, the LSA will handle it to an extent but not to the point of the others without forged internals....


....but I'm sure you already knew that!

[1BADZL1]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

....but I'm sure you already knew that!

Yes, for quite some time...
A bigger SC is not going to blow the LSA up...
Try it is all I am saying... lets see what it will do...

[2012ZL1]

It looks to me like all the Ford guys who were shut up with the news of ZL1 are all spouting off now that they think the Shelby has a chance against the ZL1.

Too bad the extra 70hp won't help...lol. nice try though. ZL1 is still twice the car Ford boys...so keep dreaming.