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Old 01-20-2010, 11:31 PM   #463
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UPDATE:
I finally had some time this weekend to try some different players with the PDIM. I went to Best Buy and spent a little over $1000 on an iPod Touch, Nano, Classic, Phillips GoGear and Zune HD. I tested these players along with my 8GB Zune and flash drives. Here are my findings (players are in order, best to worst):

iPod Classic 160 GB (7th Gen): This was the best player I tested and it worked flawlessly. Indexing time is non-existent because the index is resident in the player. When you turn on the player it will remember exactly where you left off, even the album or playlist. The only downside to this player is that no iPods play DRM songs so your library is limited to whatever music you have acquired. Even if you have a large library of 50-100K songs, that is nothing compared to the millions of songs available via subscription services.

Zune 8GB (2nd Gen): This is the player I have been using for the last couple years and this is the best option for playing DRM songs in the Camaro. For $15/mo (Zune Pass) I can fill this player and change songs anytime I want. That subscription also gives me 10 DRM-free songs/mo with the option to purchase more if I want. Indexing time is very fast; it will index the full 8GB in about 10 seconds. The PDIM still needs some work to improve compatibility with this player. The PDIM will freeze intermittently and you need to unplug the Zune and plug it back in. I also tested this player using all DRM-free songs and it still froze, so the issue is not related to DRM. When you first turn on the player it will remember which song you were last playing, but not remember if you were in an album or playlist. This second issue is common to many players, but not the iPod classic. There also seems to be some issue with playlist recognition. My playlists did not originally show up in the PDIM, so I renamed them with simple one-word names and no numbers or special characters and they worked fine after that.

iPod Nano 16GB (5th Gen): This player worked well, but not as good as the classic. When you first turn on the player it will remember which song you were last playing, but not remember if you were in an album or playlist. It does not play DRM songs.

Flash Drives: Any USB flash drive is an inexpensive alternative to an iPod. You can get these things for the price of a sandwich and they work better than some expensive players. Indexing is much slower than the 2nd Gen Zune; It seemed to take about 20-30 seconds per GB of music (your mileage may vary). You can use playlists, but it is not as easy to create and maintain them as it is with an iPod or Zune. Flash drives will not remember the album or playlist you were last using and they do not play DRM songs.

Phillips GoGear 16GB Aria: This player worked exactly like a flash drive (see above), but costs significantly more. There is no advantage to using one of these and I assume that all the other players on the GM PDIM compatibility list would be the same. If it is not an iPod or a Zune, then you might as well just use a flash drive, because all these PlaysForSure devices just act like mass storage in the Camaro.

iPod Touch 16GB (3rd Gen): This player worked similarly to the iPod Nano (see above), but with an additional issue. The search menus would not always display properly. When you display the list of albums on the player you might get a list of song titles or artists instead. If you press the back button, then try the album list again, it will display correctly. This trouble was not limited to the albums display...all search menus gave a mixed bag of results. Considering other iPods work better and this one costs more, it is not a good option for the Camaro.

Zune HD 16GB (3rd Gen): Don't even think about it. This player was the absolute worst. I filled this player with DRM-free songs and it took 54 minutes (yes, I said minutes) to index. I turned off the head unit and turned it back on and guess what...another 54 minutes to index (ok, I gave up after 20 mins, but pretty sure it was going the distance). This player is not on the GM compatibility list and probably never will be. It is an excellent player on its own, but does not play well with the Camaro.

I still plan to try the 120GB Zune. I am hoping it plays DRM, like the 8GB Zune without the freezing issue. If it does, then it will definitely oust the iPod Classic as the #1 player.

I hope this is helpful to those of you shopping for a player to use in the Camaro and I hope that GM continues to improve player compatibility.

Last edited by RandyB; 01-21-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:34 PM   #464
UCF w00t
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Great post randy! probably deserves it's own thread.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:38 AM   #465
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Update:
After 3 days at the dealer, new module ordered. Dealer will call me in the morning to see how long for the replacement to arrive. Gave the service writer info and emailed this thread. I understand the process, but it's too bad there's no quick, tier 2 or 3 support to address the pdim not seen issue.

check knowledge base, check radio, check log files, open console and check wiring, finally order new part. I've condensed the process, but geez, how many of these has gm seen and not documented in a dealer accessible knowledge base. Warranty work is $ loser with high operating cost dealers.

3 days and still need to order parts, install, confirm updated firmware, and reassemble. I hope this is the end of the same old story.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:57 AM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCF w00t View Post
Great post randy! probably deserves it's own thread.
Now that you mention it...those looking for MP3 player info, might not look in this thread. I will start a new one. THANKS!
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:07 AM   #467
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I agree. Great post!

So the millian dollar question is:
Are the issues listed a result of the player or the PDIM?
(i.e. Does the iPod not play well with the PDIM or does the PDIM not interpert the iPod commands properly)

-Rizzo
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:25 PM   #468
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I've Been Updated

I got my car back from the dealer and all is well. PDIM has been updated to CE and everything works as advertised. They also did the HVAC update. I told them not to touch my spoiler because I already tightened it myself.

Thanks very much to Codeman71 for all the info!! Couldn't have done it without it because no one at the dealer had a clue what I was talking about when I first asked about it. I gave them the info printed from the TIS site.

I use an iPod Classic and RandyB is correct, it works great.

Tom
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:49 PM   #469
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I use an original Zune 30gig, and it works great also!
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:06 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
iPod Classic 160 GB (7th Gen): This was the best player I tested and it worked flawlessly. Indexing time is non-existent because the index is resident in the player. When you turn on the player it will remember exactly where you left off, even the album or playlist. The only downside to this player is that no iPods play DRM songs so your library is limited to whatever music you have acquired. Even if you have a large library of 50-100K songs, that is nothing compared to the millions of songs available via subscription services.
Not exactly right about DRM with regards to the iPod. The Zune subscription service uses a different scheme for DRM protection than Apple's iTunes. A better wording would be "the iPod doesn't support Zune's implementation of DRM".

I'm glad DRM is going away more and more. Anyone remember "Plays 4 Sure"? Yea, that was Microsoft's first pass at DRM, and when the Zune came out, the Zune wouldn't play it in favor of the new Zune Store DRM.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:45 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrE View Post
Not exactly right about DRM with regards to the iPod. The Zune subscription service uses a different scheme for DRM protection than Apple's iTunes. A better wording would be "the iPod doesn't support Zune's implementation of DRM".

I'm glad DRM is going away more and more. Anyone remember "Plays 4 Sure"? Yea, that was Microsoft's first pass at DRM, and when the Zune came out, the Zune wouldn't play it in favor of the new Zune Store DRM.
The main point I was trying to make here is that no iPods work with a subscription service that lets you load as many songs as you want on your player for a monthly fee. That is the big advantage Zune has over iPod.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:16 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
iPod Classic 160 GB (7th Gen): This was the best player I tested and it worked flawlessly. Indexing time is non-existent because the index is resident in the player. When you turn on the player it will remember exactly where you left off, even the album or playlist. The only downside to this player is that no iPods play DRM songs so your library is limited to whatever music you have acquired. Even if you have a large library of 50-100K songs, that is nothing compared to the millions of songs available via subscription services.
My iPod Classis 120GB (6th) worked well for a while, with the exception of that the Camaro interface doesn't support shuffle-by-album or playlist folders, which are both sad misses. Recently, when I have my Classic plugged in via USB and start the car, the interface says it is indexing. It never used to do that. While it is indexing, which takes a long time, it does not respond to any commands. When it is done indexing, it doesn't actually have an index. The menu is blank. It displays the current song name and the next/previous track will work, but I can't pick a different album, playlist, or song. What's more is that when I disconnect the iPod after this happens, the iPod is locked up. I have to reset it to get it back. I started to think it was the iPod...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
iPod Nano 16GB (5th Gen): This player worked well, but not as good as the classic. When you first turn on the player it will remember which song you were last playing, but not remember if you were in an album or playlist. It does not play DRM songs.
Similar story with my 8GB Nano (5th). It worked fine except for no shuffle-by-album. Today the menu for it was blank, although it still played.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
iPod Touch 16GB (3rd Gen): This player worked similarly to the iPod Nano (see above), but with an additional issue. The search menus would not always display properly. When you display the list of albums on the player you might get a list of song titles or artists instead. If you press the back button, then try the album list again, it will display correctly. This trouble was not limited to the albums display...all search menus gave a mixed bag of results. Considering other iPods work better and this one costs more, it is not a good option for the Camaro.
My 64GB iPod Touch worked okay, but like your test, the playlists list often comes up with a random collection of songs as well. I preferred to connect the Touch via Bluetooth because then I could use the interface on the iPod. Of course the interface that Apple provides is kinda lame when driving, so I use an app called fluxtunes, which gives easy tap and swipe control for the touch. It also gives the Touch shuffle-by-album which Apple was lame enough not to include with the Touch.

Alas, today I couldn't connect via Bluetooth any more. I have a feeling my PDIM is dead. I was here today looking for a way to reset it, but saw this thread and figured I'd chime in.

A couple of other things bug me about the PDIM interface in the Camaro: The alphabetic scroll only engages if when you quickly pass through a letter of the alphabet. With over 10,000 songs, it takes a long time to get through 'A', so the Camaro doesn't go into alphabetic scroll mode in the song list. So the list is pretty useless.
I really wish the first option on the menu wasn't 'play all'. It is really easy to accidentally press the menu button twice, resulting in the Camaro either playing the first song of thousands or some random song of thousands (depending on if you have RDM set)
And as previously mentioned, the lack of shuffle-by-album is really a miss. I don't see how someone can have thousands of songs and not need that feature. It is the main reason I was never interested in a Zune.

Anyway, I hope this is useful to someone.
Cheers!
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM   #473
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Be thankful your ipod works at all with the system. I have owned the car almost three months and it never worked with exception for the 3 days it worked after it had been in the shop for the 3rd time. The dealer originally told me they would order a new module and that they would get it in 3 weeks. It has been three weeks and now the dealer is saying they don't know "when" they can fix it. GM apparently doesn't know anything either. I am on day 2 waiting for GM to call me back to inform me about what my options are to get the PDIM fixed. So much for customer satisfaction! Is it true the vendor has gone out of business and GM is scrabbling to find another company to step in?
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:30 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by Lynne View Post
Be thankful your ipod works at all with the system. I have owned the car almost three months and it never worked with exception for the 3 days it worked after it had been in the shop for the 3rd time. The dealer originally told me they would order a new module and that they would get it in 3 weeks. It has been three weeks and now the dealer is saying they don't know "when" they can fix it. GM apparently doesn't know anything either. I am on day 2 waiting for GM to call me back to inform me about what my options are to get the PDIM fixed. So much for customer satisfaction! Is it true the vendor has gone out of business and GM is scrabbling to find another company to step in?

I'm waiting on a replacement PDIM module, too. It's been almost 2 weeks. Guess, I'll call GM so their list starts to increase for this issue and maybe sets off red flags. Local dealer has no information for me on timeframe.
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:24 PM   #475
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sting808, that would be a good move because I am going nowhere fast in finding a solution to my AUX button issues. Day 3 and still no word from my GM "escalation expert". Sadly disappointing because otherwise I love this car. This one issue is destroying my respect for GM as a manufacturer. I guess I will start looking for an aftermarket option. Doesn't look like GM is going to solve the issue.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:46 AM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddy2Ride View Post
Is anyone still able to get access to http://tis2web.xw.gm.com/tis2web ? Previously I had been able to check into updates for my VIN but I can't seem to get it to work any longer upon entering my vehicle number. Anyone else having luck....I could be entering a digit incorrectly. BTW, when I had my PDIM updated to CE last November my service manager was totally surprised when I showed him this site. I wouldn't be surprised if GM locked this down since it was driving warranty service calls.

Found that by clearing the browser's history, I can access the site. Before clearing, the site would deny my access. Hope it works for you.
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