[gotswap]

I still struggle with the fact that we have one from the factory. Why is adding another even needed.

[Chris 2018 ZL1 A10]

Originally Posted by gotswap

I still struggle with the fact that we have one from the factory. Why is adding another even needed.

I did NOT know that. Can you explain further?

Thx,
Chris

[h018871]

factory one is "clean side" and being clean the oil that is caught goes back into the engine. the 'dirty' side has fuel and other contaminants in it, so it shouldn't go back into the crankcase. that is why it is burned in the combustion chamber. a dirty side can needs to be drained periodically.......it is the general consensus that the maintenance will not be performed by the average consumer........

there is opinion in this explanation

[h018871]

Originally Posted by Chris 2018 ZL1 A10

Until such time as irrefutable proof can be demonstrated under reasonably controlled conditions, I believe that a CC has little more than placebo value.

Chris

It is great to have the ability to have a choice. You probably shouldn't get one.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by Chris 2018 ZL1 A10

Alain,

Thank you for your response. Yes, the LT4 due to its DI design, means the backside of all intake valves are being exposed to a very small amount of engine oil due to the necessity of having a PCV system. The proponents of CC’s seem to be making the assumption that those oil particles that do encounter an intake valve will STAY there, turn to carbon and create other problems over time.

My assumption is that considering the velocity with which air is traveling over the intake valves, especially in a forced induction engine, will NOT result in any oil particles remaining there very long. Even if they did, the amount of air moving through that part of the engine at that velocity, should be more than enough to sufficiently dissipate the heat of combustion preventing carbonization, especially considering the ability of today’s synthetics to resist degradation. If the thin film of oil that lubricates the cylinder walls can withstand the heat, isn’t it likely that oil on the back side of an intake valve, presumably a cooler location, can survive for the short time it’s there before ingestion as well?

Again, during the design process, is it possible that Chevy engineers actually considered a very small amount of oil being re-introduced into the top-end of the motor a good thing? If so, a CC would then have to be considered a detriment to the well-being of your engine.

Until such time as irrefutable proof can be demonstrated under reasonably controlled conditions, I believe that a CC has little more than placebo value.

Chris

Cylinder walls are different than the back of intake valves. There friction inside the cylinder bores, that in itself would prevent any carbon from building on there.

I was a skeptic as well, I found oil sitting inside my supercharger when I did my install, my car only had 1900 miles at that time. For $400 I’ll take a chance at keeping oil out of where it doesn’t belong.

As far as GM engineers (and other car makers) not building the cars with some sort of catch can if it’s an issue, consider this...... the new GT500 comes with a catch can installed form the factory. BUT, the 350 DOES NOT. Ford will sell you not one, but two of them for your 350 (one for the driver side and one for the passenger side). My point is that, as big of a paradox as it may seem, these cars are not always engineered to the extent they should be, in other words, corners are cut by the manufacturer. Mainly due to cost savings.

My purpose is not to try and convince you, I’m only sharing my thoughts since I used to be a skeptic as well.

[gotswap]

Originally Posted by h018871

factory one is "clean side" and being clean the oil that is caught goes back into the engine. the 'dirty' side has fuel and other contaminants in it, so it shouldn't go back into the crankcase. that is why it is burned in the combustion chamber. a dirty side can needs to be drained periodically.......it is the general consensus that the maintenance will not be performed by the average consumer........

there is opinion in this explanation

The factory one can be drained?

[gotswap]

Originally Posted by Chris 2018 ZL1 A10

I did NOT know that. Can you explain further?

Thx,
Chris

It is on the front of the block about halfway down on the passenger side. Black box with several hoses going in and out.

[h018871]

Originally Posted by gotswap

The factory one can be drained?

No maintenance required. It separates the oil from the gasses and drains itself

[radz28]

It drains, directly, back into the oil pan, if I recall.

[kwav8r]

And the CC debate rages on...

Upfront, blow-by is largely NOT oil. It is a mixture of air, burned and unburned gases (sulphuric acid) and oil mist. Over time it contaminates oil causing viscosity to breakdown and left unchecked will foul the intake side of DI engines, robbing power and reducing fuel efficiency.

Blow-by is created by compression and combustion forcing liquids and gasses past cylinder rings and into the crankcase.

With the LT4 being supercharged, it WILL increase the amount of blow-by over an NA motor.

While I do think that some/most of the blow-by glasses are consumed in the combustion process not all of it is and it does accumulate.

While I respect everyone’s right to do what they want, for the above mentioned reasons is why I choose to run one.

The shite that the can scavenges is nasty stuff.

[Chris 2018 ZL1 A10]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Hi Chris,


Sorry we did not see those questions, but very easy. Especially with a LT4 as it is supercharged so cylinder pressures are pretty extreme when combined with GDI engines higher CR, 10:1 in the LT4 engine VS 11.5:1 in the LT1. So, we look at the combustion process and what occurs with ANY oil entering the combustion chamber and ending up as part of the A/F mixture. Oil in any amount present will cause pre-ignition, or "knock". The more oil present, the worse the pre-ignition and to protect the engine, the knock sensors will detect this and pull timing advance down to a level that meets the settings in the tune and then adds it back slowly if no more is detected. As there will always be some present if oil is present. Simple fact with any GDI engine, and the LT4 is all the more sensitive to knock retard due to the added pressures from the blower. So that is a biggee. Fuel economy and power both degrade if the engine is not running at optimum timing advance.


Next is the intake valve coking. A full syn oil will result in a slower rate of deposit formation, so that is important, but this is well documented in the before and after dyno runs, etc. showing even a small amount of deposits totally changes the shape and flow characteristics of the charge air entering the combustion chamber. An immense amount of research and development goes into today's engines as far as valve shape, size, texture, and more. So to allow these deposits to grow will gradually degrade the efficiency. The coking never builds equally, so the valves with the most severe that cylinder will run rich as air in is restricted so it wont be equal to the others. The ones with the least will run leaner than the rest. Why? The upstream O2 sensors will read each bank as an aggragate and the ECU will command equal fuel delivery to each cylinder in that bank, so the worse the coking, the more disparity.


Final, and this is also a biggee, is in order to combat and slow the valve coking issues (which any long term members should remember our debates with Tadge years ago on this subject as he stated there was NO valve coking occurring with these new engines, and we and other showed pictures of severe coking as did many others in the industry. Shortly after they introduced the Factory cleanside separators as standard on the Camaro V8's "in order to combat intake valve coking issues" that they claimed did not exist before. And that is the amount of contaminates the engine oil is bombarded with in these engines. As fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber milliseconds before spark ignition, the injectors operate at 1,000-3,000 PSI plus vs the LS engines at 55-58 psi range. So 8-12 times the raw fuel is forced between the pistons and cylinder walls. This not only washes protective oil film off from these surfaces, it also dilutes the already far too thin of viscosity oil (again a memory reminder, we have warned about the consequences of super thin oils specified in these for the sole purpose of meeting CAFE fuel economy standards and engine failures would be the results, and yes, after a rash of failures GM releases a update to use the 0w50, etc. we were suggesting) so the oil quickly becomes to thin and diluted to protect. Now, back to the Factory cleanside separator. GM made several improvements related directly to combating the coking, and in doing so have traded off engine longevity. Many have noticed GM cut engine warranties in half basically from the LS at 100,000 miles to these new engines at 60k or less. this is to shield them from the liability of warrantying these for longer. So, along with the fuel dilution, the coking on the valves bakes into a very hard crystalline structure that is as abrasive as sand in some cases. As these shed, even though most is expelled out the exhaust, some is also forced between the pistons and cylinder walls, and enters the crankcase as blow-by. This also overloads the engine oil with the soot/ash/carbon that causes most internal engine wear over time. GM slowed the oil ingestion in several ways. One is the factory CSS, which addresses the 10-15% of oil ingested via the cleanside of the PCV system,vs 85-90% through the dirty side which they have not addressed yet, but, as most would never empty them, they have it drain back into the crankcase. And this is what is returned on average: https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...ps00uz5ozd.jpg


This is 70% water and acids, 23% raw fuel, and 7% is oil saturated with abrasive particulate matter. So that being reintroduced to the crankcase most can understand the accelerated wear associated with what used to be evacuated and removed is now left in to contaminate and overwhelm the oil. How does the E2-X system address this? As it converts the PCV system to full time evacuation, it is constantly flushing and removing these as this oil analysis shows at over 13k miles oil stays cleaner longer and engine wear is greatly reduced. Please note the lab techs comments:https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...ps7l9mvzrs.jpg


This should answer your questions. If you want more data such as the dyno sheets and further oil analysis were happy to share that.


We understand there are some that could care less as they are trading soon and have no qualms about passing this on to the next owner to deal with, and that's the car owners choice. But these are for those that do care for their car and consider it a special investment they wish to care for the best possible. And further, out of ALL the "catchcans" for sale on this forum, we are still the ONLY one that takes the time to participate in technical and educational discussions. All others decline and just take the "buy it because I say so" stance. NO other company has done more research and worked with more related companies in the industry in on going testing and development. And we stand by the challenge to test against ANY other can design.


Questions? Ask them, and we ask you keep it all technical. If you are so dead set against installing a purpose built system like ours, bay all means don't. But to always attack us for sharing actual data and facts and industry results makes no sense. Ignore these if you choose, but leave the rest alone. As a supporting vendor that has been here since the beginning, these sites can't exist if you drive us away with the constant attacks. So we ask just ignore these technical discussions.


Cheers!!

Elite Engineering,

Thanks to you and a few others here who have presented compelling evidence on the subject, I am now thoroughly convinced that the CC is indeed a worthy investment for anyone concerned about the internal health of their DI engine. After a lot of research, I believe your product to be the absolute best on the market. To that end, I’ve ordered the E2-X directly from you, expected to arrive in a few days. Thank you for your thorough explanation on the various intricacies of how and why CC’s are a necessary component of DI technology.

I hope you’ll accept my sincere apology if you believe I was attacking you, I can assure you that was NOT my intent.


Thank you,
Chris

[Gary H]

Well Said Chris and thank you to Elite as always for facts.
As a side to Elite - this is installed here in the UK

[Alain]

Originally Posted by Gary H

Well Said Chris and thank you to Elite as always for facts.
As a side to Elite - this is installed here in the UK

That is a nice setup you got there !!!

[ZX-10R]

Ordered the Elite E2-X as well, but still have reservations about how it may affect the GM warranty (2019 car)