Need to hear your input re lowering - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

naikaidriver · 11-29-2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stacy

Any ideas on what else could be the issue? The kit had springs, sway bars, the brace and some hardware.

Then added the BMR end links. I asked Hotchkis about a possible miss-match with the end-links and he said no way... He (Richard) said he had the exact same kit on both of his Gen 5's and he had zero issues....

As you can see from my sig, I have a very similar setup on my 2010 and mine rides very close to stock. I drive it every day and I am not getting any bounce.

Without looking at your car, I'm guessing that you either had some issues with the install or your stock struts are showing their age and not damping as well. I've heard from various people that the stock struts on the 2010s start wearing out pretty quick after 60k miles.

Another possibility is that when your tech was installing your springs, if he used an impact wrench, he could have spun the shaft on your struts at high speed by accident when tightening the top nut. This will ruin the seals almost immediately.

Keep us posted on what happens!

Scott

Mr. Stacy · 11-30-2016, 05:41 PM

Got a call from the shop. Said they re-timed the rear and lowered it and tightened it and it still drives the same. So they called Hotchkis. Something about these springs being for v8 only. I said I called Hotchkis before buying the kit to make sure it was the right one. Hotchkis sayd it is the correct one for the convertible because the V6 convertible weighs MORE than a V8 coup. I verified this was true and ordered the kit.

They then tried to tell me I just wasn't used to driving a lowered car and it will handle SUBSTANTIALLY different than stock. Basically I went for a radical track pack and that's why it handles like that. Well, that's not even how the kit is marketed.

I called BS and called Hotchkis and asked again what their opinion was. Talked to John, he said if there was a load on the rear it would handle like crap, as I was describing. Confirmed it is the correct kit for the car and have them call him if they had questions.

Called the garage back and told them what I heard from Hotchkis was different from what they were telling me. They confirmed they tightened the rear at ride height bla bla..

So, they are going to call Hotchkis again and try again I guess...

Spent a grand to get it installed. Rather than spending anopther grand to put it back to factory, ($3200+ down the drain) I will probably just get rid it.

What a PITA.

Mr. Stacy · 11-30-2016, 06:25 PM

This is how the kit is marketed:

The Hotchkis Sport Suspension Track Pack for the 2010 Camaro offers a sleek lowered stance dramatically improved handling and superior driver control. Our engineers poured over track testing data to develop a balanced handling system that is comfortable enough for the street but well balanced for the occasional track day or your favorite twisty road.

This is a very complicated case. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous. And, uh, a lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder’s head. Fortunately, I’m adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber

Mr. Stacy · 12-01-2016, 08:36 PM

K, well, the owner (of the shop) called me today. He drove it and agrees, there is a problem. He has a '12 SS with a similar suspension setup. But he did a 2.5 inch drop and still wants to go lower...

Anyway, we are looking at the rear shocks. It kind of rides like there isn't any. I think with 60k on them it's about time for replacement anyway. Any sugestions?

naikaidriver · 12-02-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stacy

K, well, the owner (of the shop) called me today. He drove it and agrees, there is a problem. He has a '12 SS with a similar suspension setup. But he did a 2.5 inch drop and still wants to go lower...

Anyway, we are looking at the rear shocks. It kind of rides like there isn't any. I think with 60k on them it's about time for replacement anyway. Any sugestions?

I still really wonder if the shop ruined your rear shocks when installing your springs. It's extremely easy to do when reassembling them with an impact wrench.

If you're replacing the shocks anyway (do all 4 at the same time), either the Koni Oranges or Yellows will be awesome with those springs. Others around here may have their favorite manufacturers but Koni is mine.

Scott

Mr. Stacy · 12-02-2016, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

I still really wonder if the shop ruined your rear shocks when installing your springs. It's extremely easy to do when reassembling them with an impact wrench.

If you're replacing the shocks anyway (do all 4 at the same time), either the Koni Oranges or Yellows will be awesome with those springs. Others around here may have their favorite manufacturers but Koni is mine.

Scott

Thanks... wondering myself. The fronts seem a bit spendy...

MarioSS · 12-02-2016, 02:23 PM

How can someone avoiding breaking their shocks when using an airgun to assemble the shock?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

JusticePete · 12-02-2016, 03:19 PM

The Book of 5th Gen Camaro is getting an update.

http://www.jpssonline.com/the-book-f...-2010-camaro-2

5th Gen Camaro Alignment, Bushing Timing and Torque Specifications

DO NOT USE OFFSET CAMBER BOLTS ON THE 2010 - 2015 5TH GEN CAMARO. The OE clevis bolts are much stronger and the offset bolts are NOT needed with an excellent system installed at the factory.

This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosey) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread.

It isn't pretty, but it was laying around the shop so we used it. A bolt this large is ONLY for use on the alignment rack and should be removed before driving.

This is a JPSS style Camber Screw. We recommend using LocTite blue to prevent it from backing out. Note that in this picture you can see the upper hole in the factory strut is elongated for camber adjustment.

On the alignment rack, any 10mm 1.5 pitch bolt will do. The correct way is to use a JPSS style Camber Screw with blue LocTite. Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag.

It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use offset camber bolts on a Camaro. EVER!

JPSS foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are suspension specialists committed to delivering a JPSS Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what JPSS is all about. Our solution is a set of Black Magic JPSS Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local JPSS Dealer can create a slot to provide Caster adjustment with JPSS Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't.

For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like the Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. JPSS made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable.

Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'.

In Step #1 the technician may choose to drill two holes, one on either side of the factory hole before grinding a slot shape. Other techs will just grind the slot.

The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a JPSS Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is JPSS dead nuts on.

We use black chromate plating on our Camber Bolts. We used a gold tone bolt in this image to make it easier to see.

When assembled the plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A well aligned Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same JPSS Caster Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. When the tires have been confirmed good, we can make adjustments on the alignment rack.

For those that track the 5th Gen Camaro we have created Black Magic Caster Locks. Using a Caster Lock there is no possibility drift under the most demanding driving conditions. Installation of the Caster Locks is very similar. The slot is ground forward toward the radiator.

There are four Caster Lock plates that are installed on both sides of each radius arm bushing. We used a raw bare aluminum plate for this illustration.

Increasing caster improves straight line stability and the return of the wheels to the on center position. Adding caster to the 5th Gen is highly desirable.

Alignments are JPSS core business. We offer the JPSS Black Magic Caster, Rear Camber and Front Camber Screws. When installing the JPSS Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out.

JPSS Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with 1.8 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, JPSS alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a JPSS eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with JPSS Camaro Alignment Bolts.

To get the aggressive alignments we prefer JPSS Black Magic Camber and Caster Bolts and Camber Screws are essential. They double the adjustment range . We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have coated in black chromate.

Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of JPSS Knockout Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allows it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With JPSS Knockout Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the strut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw.

JPSS are a Knock Out by design, construction and function. The bearing plates are made of stainless steel. The hardware is stainless steel. Our bearings are the finest made in America available. Of course none of this matters if they are not the most functional in the industry. It starts with a hard mount system. Some 5th Gen Camaro owners will cringe at the thought of drilling six mounting holes in their strut towers, but most will agree it makes sense when they understand why. We don't want it to move. Period. Anything that clamps in place can move on impact with a pothole or gator-back. Bolted in place, the only way to move a JPSS camber plate is to move the entire strut tower.

JPSS Knock Out Camber Plates deliver 2 full degrees of adjustment. Not 1 degree. Not 1 degree split between caster and camber. 2 full degrees. If you want to add caster, and we highly recommend you do, use our Caster Locks or of Caster Bolts. Camber plates on a 5th Gen Camaro are reserved for Camber and Steering Angle Inclination (SAI).

Steering axis inclination acts, with caster, to provide a self-centering of the front wheels. When the wheels are in the straight-ahead position, the ends of the stub axles are almost horizontal. When the wheels turn to either side, the effect of steering axis inclination is to make the ends of the stub axle tend to move downward, but this is prevented by the wheel. The stub axle carrier then must move up, which raises the front of the vehicle. When the steering wheel is released, the mass of the vehicle forces the stub carrier back down, which pushes the wheels back to a central position.

The SAI angle is created and measured in degrees. It runs from the lower ball joint through the upper ball joint, or on most front wheel vehicles, through the center of the strut mount. The illustration uses ball joints to represent the angle. This measurement of degrees includes the measurement from lower ball joint to the upper ball joint or the upper strut mount and true vertical (the tire actually sitting straight up and down). The SAI angle doesn't include the camber angle. This is because Steering Axis Inclination is a non-adjustable angle.

We recommend using the JPSS Knockout Camber Plates to increase SAI and adjust the majority of camber at the knuckle. Combine this with JPSS Caster Locks to achieve optimal front end geometry and handling.

Bushing Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

Alignment

On the alignment rack the technician must be aware that the rear lower control arm camber adjustment works against the toe link toe adjustment. The toe eccentrics should be set to a neutral position, the eccentric not touching the 'fences' when thee initial camber adjustment is made. Then the technician will work the two for the optimal split of camber and toe values.

Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values

NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are typically Torque to Yield (TTY) and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM, the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite

JusticePete · 12-02-2016, 03:21 PM

Chances are you are suffering fom bushing bounce...

A 2.5" drop puts the rear suspension into a bind position over the smallest bump. Bad plan.

The best drop coils at this time come from DSE. Very well manufactured. Right rates. Modest drop.

Mr. Stacy · 12-02-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Chances are you are suffering fom bushing bounce...

A 2.5" drop puts the rear suspension into a bind position over the smallest bump. Bad plan.

The best drop coils at this time come from DSE. Very well manufactured. Right rates. Modest drop.

His is dropped 2.5", not mine.

Mine LOOKS like it only dropped about a half inch, but according to Hotchkis, it SHOULD have dropped about 1.5".

Is the V6 RS accurate for the Convertible? Given the V6 vert weighs more than an SS coupe?

JusticePete · 12-02-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stacy

His is dropped 2.5", not mine.

Mine LOOKS like it only dropped about a half inch, but according to Hotchkis, it SHOULD have dropped about 1.5".

Most likely the bushings were not timed to the new ride height which would also account for your bouncy ride.

Mr. Stacy · 12-02-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Most likely the bushings were not timed to the new ride height which would also account for your bouncy ride.

They've timed them 3 times now...

JusticePete · 12-02-2016, 07:21 PM

I can you tell me how they are doing it?

Mr. Stacy · 12-02-2016, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I can you tell me how they are doing it?

Not 100% sure. They have had the car for a week now. I told them exactly what Hotchkis told me, and gave them the number and extension of the guy I was working with at Hitchkis.. John.

But John only mentioned three points, the piviot, and the upper and lower control arm bushings. Your guide lists 5 points. I have forwarded the guide to them and your instructions. I can only hope they missed something and a lightbulb will go off.

The owner has a '12 SS and a similar suspension, so he drove mine and could tell what I was complaining about. It feels to him like there are no rear shocks at all...So we are looking at installing new rear shocks.

But the key to me is that it did not drop a full inch.... but the shocks do have 60k plus on them...

Anyway.... there is a solution. It's just math and engineering. It's not rocket science. Personally, I think they overlooked something and the rear end is loaded like a baby diaper. Or maybe the shocks are fried. Maybe they killed them, or maybe they just don't like the new position.

All I really know is that the front dropped more than expected, the rear not so much. And in the meantime the back end bounces like an eject seat.

11-30-2016, 05:41 PM	#16
Mr. Stacy El Duderino Drives: 2011 2LTRS Convertible Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,194 View My Garage	Got a call from the shop. Said they re-timed the rear and lowered it and tightened it and it still drives the same. So they called Hotchkis. Something about these springs being for v8 only. I said I called Hotchkis before buying the kit to make sure it was the right one. Hotchkis sayd it is the correct one for the convertible because the V6 convertible weighs MORE than a V8 coup. I verified this was true and ordered the kit. They then tried to tell me I just wasn't used to driving a lowered car and it will handle SUBSTANTIALLY different than stock. Basically I went for a radical track pack and that's why it handles like that. Well, that's not even how the kit is marketed. I called BS and called Hotchkis and asked again what their opinion was. Talked to John, he said if there was a load on the rear it would handle like crap, as I was describing. Confirmed it is the correct kit for the car and have them call him if they had questions. Called the garage back and told them what I heard from Hotchkis was different from what they were telling me. They confirmed they tightened the rear at ride height bla bla.. So, they are going to call Hotchkis again and try again I guess... Spent a grand to get it installed. Rather than spending anopther grand to put it back to factory, ($3200+ down the drain) I will probably just get rid it. What a PITA. __________________ I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

11-30-2016, 06:25 PM	#17
Mr. Stacy El Duderino Drives: 2011 2LTRS Convertible Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,194 View My Garage	This is how the kit is marketed: The Hotchkis Sport Suspension Track Pack for the 2010 Camaro offers a sleek lowered stance dramatically improved handling and superior driver control. Our engineers poured over track testing data to develop a balanced handling system that is comfortable enough for the street but well balanced for the occasional track day or your favorite twisty road. This is a very complicated case. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous. And, uh, a lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder’s head. Fortunately, I’m adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber __________________ I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

12-01-2016, 08:36 PM	#18
Mr. Stacy El Duderino Drives: 2011 2LTRS Convertible Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,194 View My Garage	K, well, the owner (of the shop) called me today. He drove it and agrees, there is a problem. He has a '12 SS with a similar suspension setup. But he did a 2.5 inch drop and still wants to go lower... Anyway, we are looking at the rear shocks. It kind of rides like there isn't any. I think with 60k on them it's about time for replacement anyway. Any sugestions? __________________ I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

12-02-2016, 02:23 PM	#21
MarioSS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS (RS LS3) Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Jo Posts: 302	How can someone avoiding breaking their shocks when using an airgun to assemble the shock? Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

12-02-2016, 03:19 PM	#22
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,174	The Book of 5th Gen Camaro is getting an update. http://www.jpssonline.com/the-book-f...-2010-camaro-2 5th Gen Camaro Alignment, Bushing Timing and Torque Specifications DO NOT USE OFFSET CAMBER BOLTS ON THE 2010 - 2015 5TH GEN CAMARO. The OE clevis bolts are much stronger and the offset bolts are NOT needed with an excellent system installed at the factory. This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosey) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread. It isn't pretty, but it was laying around the shop so we used it. A bolt this large is ONLY for use on the alignment rack and should be removed before driving. This is a JPSS style Camber Screw. We recommend using LocTite blue to prevent it from backing out. Note that in this picture you can see the upper hole in the factory strut is elongated for camber adjustment. On the alignment rack, any 10mm 1.5 pitch bolt will do. The correct way is to use a JPSS style Camber Screw with blue LocTite. Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag. It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use offset camber bolts on a Camaro. EVER! JPSS foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are suspension specialists committed to delivering a JPSS Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what JPSS is all about. Our solution is a set of Black Magic JPSS Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local JPSS Dealer can create a slot to provide Caster adjustment with JPSS Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't. For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like the Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. JPSS made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable. Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'. In Step #1 the technician may choose to drill two holes, one on either side of the factory hole before grinding a slot shape. Other techs will just grind the slot. The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a JPSS Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is JPSS dead nuts on. We use black chromate plating on our Camber Bolts. We used a gold tone bolt in this image to make it easier to see. When assembled the plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A well aligned Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same JPSS Caster Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. When the tires have been confirmed good, we can make adjustments on the alignment rack. For those that track the 5th Gen Camaro we have created Black Magic Caster Locks. Using a Caster Lock there is no possibility drift under the most demanding driving conditions. Installation of the Caster Locks is very similar. The slot is ground forward toward the radiator. There are four Caster Lock plates that are installed on both sides of each radius arm bushing. We used a raw bare aluminum plate for this illustration. Increasing caster improves straight line stability and the return of the wheels to the on center position. Adding caster to the 5th Gen is highly desirable. Alignments are JPSS core business. We offer the JPSS Black Magic Caster, Rear Camber and Front Camber Screws. When installing the JPSS Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out. JPSS Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with 1.8 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, JPSS alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a JPSS eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with JPSS Camaro Alignment Bolts. To get the aggressive alignments we prefer JPSS Black Magic Camber and Caster Bolts and Camber Screws are essential. They double the adjustment range . We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have coated in black chromate. Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of JPSS Knockout Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allows it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With JPSS Knockout Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the strut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw. JPSS are a Knock Out by design, construction and function. The bearing plates are made of stainless steel. The hardware is stainless steel. Our bearings are the finest made in America available. Of course none of this matters if they are not the most functional in the industry. It starts with a hard mount system. Some 5th Gen Camaro owners will cringe at the thought of drilling six mounting holes in their strut towers, but most will agree it makes sense when they understand why. We don't want it to move. Period. Anything that clamps in place can move on impact with a pothole or gator-back. Bolted in place, the only way to move a JPSS camber plate is to move the entire strut tower. JPSS Knock Out Camber Plates deliver 2 full degrees of adjustment. Not 1 degree. Not 1 degree split between caster and camber. 2 full degrees. If you want to add caster, and we highly recommend you do, use our Caster Locks or of Caster Bolts. Camber plates on a 5th Gen Camaro are reserved for Camber and Steering Angle Inclination (SAI). Steering axis inclination acts, with caster, to provide a self-centering of the front wheels. When the wheels are in the straight-ahead position, the ends of the stub axles are almost horizontal. When the wheels turn to either side, the effect of steering axis inclination is to make the ends of the stub axle tend to move downward, but this is prevented by the wheel. The stub axle carrier then must move up, which raises the front of the vehicle. When the steering wheel is released, the mass of the vehicle forces the stub carrier back down, which pushes the wheels back to a central position. The SAI angle is created and measured in degrees. It runs from the lower ball joint through the upper ball joint, or on most front wheel vehicles, through the center of the strut mount. The illustration uses ball joints to represent the angle. This measurement of degrees includes the measurement from lower ball joint to the upper ball joint or the upper strut mount and true vertical (the tire actually sitting straight up and down). The SAI angle doesn't include the camber angle. This is because Steering Axis Inclination is a non-adjustable angle. We recommend using the JPSS Knockout Camber Plates to increase SAI and adjust the majority of camber at the knuckle. Combine this with JPSS Caster Locks to achieve optimal front end geometry and handling. Bushing Timing Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it. Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts: Front: ---Inner Control Arm Bushing ---Inner Radius Rod Rear: ---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends) ---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends) ---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner) ---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward) ---Lower Strut Bushings Step 3. Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift. Step 4. With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec. Step 5. Align the car at the new ride height. Alignment On the alignment rack the technician must be aware that the rear lower control arm camber adjustment works against the toe link toe adjustment. The toe eccentrics should be set to a neutral position, the eccentric not touching the 'fences' when thee initial camber adjustment is made. Then the technician will work the two for the optimal split of camber and toe values. Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are typically Torque to Yield (TTY) and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM, the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite

12-02-2016, 03:21 PM	#23
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,174	Chances are you are suffering fom bushing bounce... A 2.5" drop puts the rear suspension into a bind position over the smallest bump. Bad plan. The best drop coils at this time come from DSE. Very well manufactured. Right rates. Modest drop.

12-02-2016, 07:21 PM	#27
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,174	I can you tell me how they are doing it?