The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Unfair]

The 2011 mustang GT doesn't have an add on "track pack" it's built in.
they took the advancements of the track pack and made that standard equipment.
so the "well they didn't test a stock mustang" is funny.

[Deric884]

Sometimes I feel like all this complaining about reviews is coming from this weird need some Camaro owners have for everyone to love their car and its looks and performance, and to constantly tell them how better it is than every other car out there.

Well, our car was just the first in a wave of bigger, better muscle cars that will be playing out here over the next few years.

Relax. If you like your car and how it looks, and the performance it give you, and know you got a deal, what the hell do you care that some editor has changed his mind about it?

Its a really childish reaction.

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

But whats funny is how the gap will close when you put on new springs and sway bars on an ss. People can cry all day that its not stock, who cares? Sways and springs are the engine equivelent of a CAI. Bolt-ons will easily propel the ss past the GT. Remember they pretty much tapped the GT out to get those numbers. After market headers and a CAI probably isnt going to net you much in the hp department do to the factory designs.

People will cry that the stock mustang is faster than the gt, but I have a gut feeling that GT's are going to have a hard time finding a stock SS at the track to run with. Even then its going to be a drivers race IMO.

[nosrettap58]

Just a point. As far as mustang always outselling camaro, we have to remember in a way gm was always competing with themselves, as it also sold the firebird/TA. The same as the silverado- gmc pickup. Ford was always touted as the best selling truck, yet if you combined sales of the gmc and silverado,gm sold more. I think now that there is only one muscle car in the lineup, the sales #'s are more accurate.

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

It is biased. Just as the first reviews of the 2010 SS were biased.

The new kid on the block is always drooled over.

Ford did a great job with this car. There is no doubt about it. Competition is good ....

It will be nice to see some real world numbers though once these cars hit the streets !

Crowley

[Crowley]

When you look at the numbers all of the cars are pretty close with the Mustang coming out on top. I don't think that is much of a suprise since it had the track pack and we knew from the last year mustang how good it could handle w/ that setup. Now with the new 5.0 and keeping the weight down, Ford has a winner as far as the numbers go.

The one thing I don't like about some magazine articles is that they then put the personal likes / dislikes into the mix (which is fine, but that shouldn't be part of the final numbers). Some of the things they mention (thick steering wheel for example .. I LOVE that about the car ... my 135i Steering wheel was thick and that is a plus to me). As for the car making you feel small .. it sort of does at first ... it does take time to get use to the new camaro looking from the inside out. Mine is a daily driver, and it hasn't been any harder to drive daily than any other car that I have owned.

Now back to he basics .. good job FORD .... Now lets see what GM has for an answer

Crowley

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

But whats funny is how the gap will close when you put on new springs and sway bars on an ss. People can cry all day that its not stock, who cares? Sways and springs are the engine equivelent of a CAI. Bolt-ons will easily propel the ss past the GT. Remember they pretty much tapped the GT out to get those numbers. After market headers and a CAI probably isnt going to net you much in the hp department do to the factory designs.

People will cry that the stock mustang is faster than the gt, but I have a gut feeling that GT's are going to have a hard time finding a stock SS at the track to run with. Even then its going to be a drivers race IMO.

Modded cars are a whole nother can of worms so might as well not even go there, also where did you get the information that the mustang is "tapped out" ? I would like to read about that.

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by Unfair

Modded cars are a whole nother can of worms so might as well not even go there, also where did you get the information that the mustang is "tapped out" ? I would like to read about that.

The point of the sway bars/springs was that the Camaro ss already out performed the 10GT on every track they raced on..even with the GTS track pack. GM doesnt offer one yet, but a set of sways and springs is all it would take to further widen the gap on the 2010 ss versus the 2010 gt.

What Im getting at here is expect GM to have a suspension package for 2011. They cant shed weight off the car unless they move to a stripper version like the 4th gens (highly unlikely) and theres not a shot in hell they are going to add enough hp to do anything. Because either the vette geeks will cry that it has more advertised hp, or they will have to bump up the vettes hp as well. A simple cam revision would accomplish this but then MPG might go down...ect ect. Bumping hp is a messy road.

So my theory is to expect a suspension package and maybe a more agressive tune to sap out a few extra hp.

As for the Mustang motor being tapped out....in a N/A stand point, it comes with headers, so aftermarket probably arent going to do much of anything. From what Ive heard/read the mustangs stock airbox flows really well, so look for aftermarket CAIs to again not do much. Its a very well designed motor from the factory. But, the fact is that its a 5.0. It down on size and thats its one real flaw...well that and being DOHC.

Mod for mod the mustang is going to take a beating.

So again stock for stock at a drag race....drivers race.
Modded equal mods for both cars...Camaro walks it.

On a road track stock for stock....tbd but I would say mustang wins.
Modded or 2011 equipped with a suspension upgrade I would say drivers race.

Im about straight line performance though and Im calling it now, all this hooting and hollering about the new mustang will blow over quickly once they start hitting the drag strip against 2010-2011 camaros.

And thats my Barack Obama answer for the day.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by derklug

Realistically, 85% of the Muscle cars shown will be bought by middle aged people who will never race them, don't have the skills to be competetive, and would be scared to death to see what they can really do. 5% will go to kids whose parents should know better, and the last 10% will be the people who know the potential of the cars. The last 10% are the ones that will hit the track, do the mods, and test the platforms to the fullest. Unfortunatly, the automakers have to cater to the 85%, and the 10% have to correct the short-comings. The positive side is that the volume brings down the price, and brings out the individual interpretations of what is the "BEST" Muscle Car.

I am one of the upper middle age group, and I will not be modding my car for more performance, but as you can see I have modded mine to enhance the looks of the car... That being said, I guess I am in the 85% catagory and don't mind it a bit.. I am glad that those that want to race and mod for performance can do such and I am sure as more Camaros and 2011 Mustangs are sold more and more along with better performance enhancements will be coming forth..

[syr74]

Originally Posted by cab2g

Ok the standard gear ratio is 3.55 but MT tested with a 3.73 ratio setup in the track pack... Now this in itself isn't upsetting, because it's a factory option, but wouldn't this change the mileage that the standard 3.55 ratio would give you? MT reports that the mileage should be 17/26... But wouldn't the gear ratio decrease this?

MT reported observed mileage and mileage as rated by the epa which is 17/26 for the GT manual whichever gear set you have, I'm not sure what else they could have done here?

Originally Posted by cab2g

Another thing I noticed is that they said the recommended fuel for the Camaro SS was regular unleaded... I sure hope this was a typo because if they put regular fuel in the car for their tests, that certainly would've hurt the #s!

It says the same thing for Mustang GT, which has a recommended octane rating of 91. If it's true and hurting the Camaro, then it's hurting the Mustang too.

Originally Posted by cab2g

If they test a stock Camaro they should test a stock Mustang, NO track pak that only 10% will have.

There is no Track Pack for 2011, and the 3.73:1 gears are going to have a higher take rate than 10%. Either way, it's factory offering and complaining about is just sounds like sour grapes.

Originally Posted by cab2g

Not sure what the 20" upgrades will cost... Anyways I would guess that the Mustang would be at least $1k when specked out to what a 1SS Base Camaro has.

Mustang does not and, according to Ford, will not offer 20 inch rims since they offer no performance advantage on cars of this size.

As for price parity, option for option the Mustang costs less which isn't really a surprise. A Mustang with the Brembo brake package does cost more than the base Camaro SS because Ford wont let you get the brake package without getting the Premium package which includes leather, etc.

So, to put is simply,Ford will sell you a 3.73:1 equipped Mustang GT for less than GM will sell you a base Camaro 1SS, but they wont let you order the Brembo brake package on that trim level. GM will sell you a base Camaro 1SS for less than a Brembo equipped Mustang GT, but that Camaro will have much less in the way of feature content since you have to opt for a GT Premium to get the brakes. If you option up the Camaro to match the Mustang Premium in terms of feature content, the Camaro will cost more even if you add the Brembo brakes to the Mustang.

Originally Posted by cab2g

Remember they pretty much tapped the GT out to get those numbers. After market headers and a CAI probably isnt going to net you much in the hp department do to the factory designs.

Nobody associated with the 5.0L engine program, whether that be as a Ford employee or as a contractor, has suggested this. In fact, they have suggested the exact opposite, that the 5.0L is running in a very mild state of tune.

The 'it's tapped out' argument just sounds like wishful thinking.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by cab2g

Ok so I'm starting to get concerned that the early reviews of the 2011 Mustang are a little biased. I know Ford made some major updates and upgrades, but I just read the Motor Trend comparison between the Mustang and Camaro and the final verdict just seems a little off. Apparently most of the staff at MT would chose the Challenger over the Camaro, putting it in 3rd place... even though it outperforms the Challenger in their tests??

Then there are the numbers in the final table...

Ok the standard gear ratio is 3.55 but MT tested with a 3.73 ratio setup in the track pack... Now this in itself isn't upsetting, because it's a factory option, but wouldn't this change the mileage that the standard 3.55 ratio would give you? MT reports that the mileage should be 17/26... But wouldn't the gear ratio decrease this?

Another thing I noticed is that they said the recommended fuel for the Camaro SS was regular unleaded... I sure hope this was a typo because if they put regular fuel in the car for their tests, that certainly would've hurt the #s!

I may be crazy for being annoyed by this, but people are going to be buying either the standard mustang and get 17/26 mileage with slower accelleration or the 3.73 track pack mustang as tested and get another mileage, but the review as far as I could tell never mentioned that the mileage would be affected by the upgrades purchased.

And that brings me to my last point. If Chevy did one thing to shut up the media in proclaiming that the Mustang was top dog, it would be to offer factory performance upgrades like the Mustang! I wish they would!

I'm not trying to start a one sided discussion about how the Camaro rules or how the Mustang sucks. I just want to know if the articles are really as biased as I think...

source: Motor Trend

Just because your chosen car lost the comparison does not make it biased. Ford did amazing things with the Mustang GT for 11, you realize it was more than motor and transmission, correct? they also further refined the uspension and added things like additional sound deadening. Also the 3.73 gears are a standalone $395 option, there is no "track pack" on the 11s. The closest thing to the Track pack is the brembo brake package that adds the Brembos and 19 inch wheels and 3 season tires for, I believe, $1650. The Camaro is fast and good looking performance car, BUT it has a year for all it's warts to show and it has quite a few. All that style comes at a price, as does the bargain basement pricing.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by justincase_2008

Just like when they compared the GT500 to the SS and not to the ZL575...

Why would they ompare a factory car to a tuner car??????

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 1camaro70

If they test a stock Camaro they should test a stock Mustang, NO track pak that only 10% will have.

There is no "track pak" for 11, only a gear option that is a FACTORY option, hence stock, hence fair game....

[ssump29]

Man you guys whine and bicker like a bunch of 16 yr old girls on their period. Geez get over it. Which cost more or which cost less yadadadada. A 1000-1500 more or less is petty cash and most know that. Get what you like and shut the @#!@ up.

Side note, Ford is pumping out some beautiful engines lately.