2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[SRT8Tech]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Only a dodge guy would think a 470hp car that weighs 4200 lbs could be damn close to one that is 3800 lbs and 550hp.

Stock for stock yes...but only because the GT500 doesnt hook up. Put a tire on both cars....it will be very ugly.

The 392 beats an SS hands down when it has 2-3 mph on it in trap speed? (sometimes). And it has only beat the SS best time by .3? I would strongly disagree. Sounds about as fast as a 5.0 stock for stock. Maybe a tick better.

But the 392 is "damn close" to a GT500 when it is at least 5mph behind? I strongly disagree their as well.

The 392 performs right where is it priced. Between the SS and GT500...but closer to the SS.

Nice cars. I would own one if their was no camaro or mustang.

I see ONE SS "bone stock" running a 12.5 ONE. There are many 392's running 12.2's, 12.3's 12.4's so YES the 392 beats the SS hands down by ALOT. And the fastest time stock for the 2011 GT500 is a 12.03 @ 118 wich is only 2 tenths faster than the fastest time (so far) on the stock 392. So YES the 392 is not far behind the GT500 stock for stock. By the way, trap speed isnt what wins, its ET. So being only 4 mph behind doesnt really matter now does it. No big deal though. Its all good.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by big hammer

lol serious? you are comparing base prices to loaded models?

were comparing perormance here. a 1ss is miles cheaper than an srt8. the srt8 is a competitor for the gt500 zl1, so it fails. nice car but it doesn't really know where its market is.


and seriously who gives a flying **** about push button start.

But going by your logic, a 12.2 1/4 mile SRT is not that far off from a $10000 MORE EXPENSIVE ZL1............. THere is roughly a 10,000 difference between the stripper 1SS and the SRT8 too, so, seems to price and perform right in the middle so how is it actually a competitor for 1 or the other? I can't be a competitor to the stripper SS because it is $10k more expensive, by that same skewed logic it can't be a competitor to the ZL1 because it is $10000 more than the SRT8, do you see the problem with your argument? Now a 2SS which is optioned similarly (love how you left out things like the SRTs superio suspension in your pos) which is only a 4k difference seems the closest competitor to me, how about you, going by your price dramatization BTW.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by big hammer

ford fanbois need to settle down and step back from drugs. ford is reacting to chevy here. and the biggest difference here is that the gt500 is fords #1 performance car. they can and will throw all there chips into it and not step on any toes of any other car in their lineup.

chevy is different. the camaro is their "middle performer". they wont just throw more perormance at the zl1 in fear that they they will infringe on their own corvette sales.

so when building the zl1 what do they do? it needed to be a better performer than other cars in it's devision, yet not so much that people shy away from the vette because the zl1 needs to be priced accordingly.

so what do they give us? a 580 hp, 'ring burning monster that is much better performing than either the current gt500 or srt8. and yet it still wont quite compete with the more expensive z06. this is the position they needed to be in, and they succeeded. faster than the competition, but not faster than themselves. mission accomplished.

so ford comes out and WHAMMO releases the plans to build a 650hp gt500. pretty sweet! this will no doubt be the fastest muscle car on the market at this point.

now ford fans seem to think that chevy cant compete with that. really? the ls9 is just sitting there and is a mere few hp shy of surpassing the 650hp of the new 5.8. if you dont think that gm can do it then you are retarded. gm engineers could do it with ease. the problem comes from the bean counters and marketing. they are the ones that decide how much hp the zl1 gets, not engineering.

I love the LS9 argument LOL, fact it it would be 2 to 3 years before that could even be implemented as design changes to accomodate the extra power would be needed and it would require more expensive recertification for the new powertrain.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

I see ONE SS "bone stock" running a 12.5 ONE. There are many 392's running 12.2's, 12.3's 12.4's so YES the 392 beats the SS hands down by ALOT. And the fastest time stock for the 2011 GT500 is a 12.03 @ 118 wich is only 2 tenths faster than the fastest time (so far) on the stock 392. So YES the 392 is not far behind the GT500 stock for stock. By the way, trap speed isnt what wins, its ET. So being only 4 mph behind doesnt really matter now does it. No big deal though. Its all good.

BINGO

[Runin11z]

GM went into this venture because they thought since sales were up on the Camaro and all the money being spent on the car after it left the lot they could squeeze out a few more dollars and encroach on Ford's top dog and put the proverbial final nail in the coffin. They found out quickly that Ford was not going to laydown and be ran off the block without a fight. To any business it's all about money and it's no different in this situation. More than likely this will pan out for GM if the Gt500 is priced outrageously over the ZL1, better bang for the buck. It's not just about appealing to the people of Camaro5 it's about appealing to the masses to sell more cars. We truly are a small fraction of the numbers that the fifth gen has sold.

Now for some reason I feel like this car should have been given the Z/28 moniker and held back on the ZL1 as a response to the '13 Gt500. I'm going to love my ZL1 but it just makes me sad to know the most legendary name for a Camaro is already being one upped in the HP wars. Back when the first ZL1 came out it was a mythical beast that not many knew about unless they were beat by one at the strip. Now to me it seems like SLP had sort of the right approach to the power that this namesake should carry. I for one am happy Ford responded as it will make GM push back (hopefully) as Scott said "we are never finished". Maybe I'm just wishfully thinking that this happens sooner than oppose to later.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by Stew

I love the LS9 argument LOL, fact it it would be 2 to 3 years before that could even be implemented as design changes to accomodate the extra power would be needed and it would require more expensive recertification for the new powertrain.

gotta love how some people think it is as simple as dropping in a new powertrain and that's it.

[Runin11z]

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

I see ONE SS "bone stock" running a 12.5 ONE. There are many 392's running 12.2's, 12.3's 12.4's so YES the 392 beats the SS hands down by ALOT. And the fastest time stock for the 2011 GT500 is a 12.03 @ 118 wich is only 2 tenths faster than the fastest time (so far) on the stock 392. So YES the 392 is not far behind the GT500 stock for stock. By the way, trap speed isnt what wins, its ET. So being only 4 mph behind doesnt really matter now does it. No big deal though. Its all good.

You guys must live in the Internet, just because there is one guy that posts a 12.5 for the fifth gen it must be the fastest one has ran stock out of all the LS3 SS Camaro's sold. Not everyone gives a damn to post their times on a forum board. Hell my buddy has the rarest cobra ever made (flip top) and races that thing all the time but I have yet to see him waste time on a forum talking about his track times. There are quite a few I know running the 275 drag radial class that hate the damn computer unless it's for the weather station at the track, and we are talking high six to low seven second cars.

[adamgl]

Originally Posted by tobalt

Amen! All bark and no bite! Or, should I say, all cluck and no bite?

[adamgl]

Originally Posted by HEMI DAVE

Pondering whether to use the supercharger they have been testing.....

.....or just dropping in the blowerless V10 which they have already tested in a Challenger...........ohhh.....

....and thanking GM and Ford for showing us their hand so we know what to shoot for

MOPAR will play

I'd much rather get a Challenger than an ugly a** mustang

[SRT8Tech]

Originally Posted by Runin11z

You guys must live in the Internet, just because there is one guy that posts a 12.5 for the fifth gen it must be the fastest one has ran stock out of all the LS3 SS Camaro's sold. Not everyone gives a damn to post their times on a forum board. Hell my buddy has the rarest cobra ever made (flip top) and races that thing all the time but I have yet to see him waste time on a forum talking about his track times. There are quite a few I know running the 275 drag radial class that hate the damn computer unless it's for the weather station at the track, and we are talking high six to low seven second cars.

Well if you want to get out of the "internet world" The fastest stock SS I have seen on the track (hundreds of them) was barely in the 12's. 12.9 @ 108 to be exact. But hey, thats just real world right there. I wont even get into the MANY modded ones I have seen that are still in the 13's. But I guess according to most Camaro guys....................all the stock SS's are mid 12 second cars. I have yet to see one run a mid 12. Oh well, I guess those hundreds of drivers all suck. Here is a good example of one at the track I took a video of. I have 3 videos of this one and he never got better than a 13.5 @ 104. DA was 1100 and was 73 degrees at the time. Track altitude is 120 ft. So dont go saying its because of "the weather or altitude".

[Runin11z]

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

Well if you want to get out of the "internet world" The fastest stock SS I have seen on the track (hundreds of them) was barely in the 12's. 12.9 @ 108 to be exact. But hey, thats just real world right there. I wont even get into the MANY modded ones I have seen that are still in the 13's. But I guess according to most Camaro guys....................all the stock SS's are mid 12 second cars. I have yet to see one run a mid 12. Oh well, I guess those hundreds of drivers all suck. Here is a good example of one at the track I took a video of. I have 3 videos of this one and he never got better than a 13.5 @ 104. DA was 1100 and was 73 degrees at the time. Track altitude is 120 ft. So dont go saying its because of "the weather or altitude".

You are kind of missing the point... Like your times for example (which are quick btw) how are you to know that there is not someone with a 392 that has ran 12.0? Just because they didn't post their slip on CT or what ever forum. I've been through this so many times, the Camaro has appealed to a lot of folks that are NOT racing enthusiasts. People that were driving Honda Accords and Nissan Maxima's then bam they buy the SS and instantly think it makes them John Force in turn they go to the track and turn horrible times.

In no way am I saying the 392 is not a faster car. But I'm saying just because you don't see it on the web or your local track doesn't mean the possibility is not out there.

[MichaelH]

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

Well if you want to get out of the "internet world" The fastest stock SS I have seen on the track (hundreds of them) was barely in the 12's. 12.9 @ 108 to be exact. But hey, thats just real world right there. I wont even get into the MANY modded ones I have seen that are still in the 13's. But I guess according to most Camaro guys....................all the stock SS's are mid 12 second cars. I have yet to see one run a mid 12. Oh well, I guess those hundreds of drivers all suck. Here is a good example of one at the track I took a video of. I have 3 videos of this one and he never got better than a 13.5 @ 104. DA was 1100 and was 73 degrees at the time. Track altitude is 120 ft. So dont go saying its because of "the weather or altitude".

your totally right on that, but its not just camaros that run bad times its also the challengers and mustangs to. i have seen some pretty terrible times from all 3 of them and have yet really to see one in person run a good time

[Runin11z]

Originally Posted by MichaelH

your totally right on that, but its not just camaros that run bad times its also the challengers and mustangs to. i have seen some pretty terrible times from all 3 of them and have yet really to see one in person run a good time

This is exactly what I mean. We all know that these cars are very capable and very formidable rivals that all it takes is a bad driver to gain the win.

Anyways back to the topic at hand. I sure hope the two other manufactures have an answer for the new Gt500.

[Jekyll-N-Hyde]

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

Well if you want to get out of the "internet world" The fastest stock SS I have seen on the track (hundreds of them) was barely in the 12's. 12.9 @ 108 to be exact. But hey, thats just real world right there. I wont even get into the MANY modded ones I have seen that are still in the 13's. But I guess according to most Camaro guys....................all the stock SS's are mid 12 second cars. I have yet to see one run a mid 12. Oh well, I guess those hundreds of drivers all suck. Here is a good example of one at the track I took a video of. I have 3 videos of this one and he never got better than a 13.5 @ 104. DA was 1100 and was 73 degrees at the time. Track altitude is 120 ft. So dont go saying its because of "the weather or altitude".

I have seen quite a few folks climb in a new Camaro at the track and they think all they have to do is get in hit the pedal and hang on.
With the Altitude and awsome weather Texas usually has in the Fall and Spring I have seen quite a few Stock Camaro's running into the 12's at the track mostly automatics. 12.7 to 12.9's 12 is a 12 I dont care how you look at it. if you run a 10.9 you are saying I ran in the 10's.

From the looks of that video the driver lost a good half a second at the begining as he rolled before taking off. You know as well as I do you line two cars up at a track and you are wanting to get down to the end before the next person. Drag race!!!!!
The drivers who are going for the best time dont even watch the person over in the next lane as they leave when they are ready they go. Until you move the clock doesnt start! looks to me this person as well as a lot I have seen get to jumpy and mess up and imo lose where a drag race is Won.
When driven correctly ( I can speak for an automatic Camaro ) you can flash the stock converter just enough to get the car to hook just right. Of course losing some tire preasure and etc helps a lot.

The New stang's automatic is a very well tuned from the Factory car I have seen a few of them run stock with Good drivers and run awsome times. I have also seen some stock cars that are not even equal hang with a Stock 5.0 due to someone who has never driven on a track being behind the wheel just enjoying the moment.

IMO most times of any car are not accurate because of the drivers. Lots of people buy a new Camaro/Stang/charger and mod it and say im going to try drag racing. A few times dont make you GOOD.


Remember when cars are being compared from the factory ( when you see those good times that sell to us gearheads ) usually some of the best drivers are put behind the seat.