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Old 10-13-2010, 08:45 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by nick at night View Post
That's why the gas engine is on board.... to keep you from HAVING to charge it up at work. If you need to go further than 40 miles, stop at a gas station as you normally would. And, no disrespect, but comparing a cell phone battery to the battery in the volt is kind of silly. I've yet to hear any case where the battery in a hybrid has inexplicably spontaneously combusted.
Actually it's not kinda silly. Obviously there are safeguards and a cooling system for the battery, however if one gets too hot because of a breakdown in one of the systems keeping it cool, then kaboom.. Or perhaps an accident hitting a heated battery causing an explosion. These are legitimate concerns I have. Crash test ratings only look at specific crashes at 40mph. We will not know of these dangers until these vehicles hit the road.

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An EV isn't for everyone. Today you have to have the following mindset: I'm willing to pay more and put up with more inconvenience in order to NOT use gasoline.

It will be a while before it is as convenient as gasoline. Keep in mind, gasoline is basically the cheapest form of energy that can be easily transported to your corner gas station. If there were a cheaper and easier way to supply energy for your personal transportation needs, we'd be using it. That is unless you believe in oil company conspiracies

So your situation is where most people are. Arguably that is why the government is paying $7,500 to entice you and I to consider that inconvenience more worthwhile.

And that is what the Volt can do, allow you the flexibility to choose the most convenient form of energy. If you have access to the infrastructure you can use electric. If you want to drive on vacation you can choose gas.
I hear ya. However even with the incentives, it is still very expensive outright. I understand the savings however how much will a new battery cost once its charge is half of what it used to be? What will that make your investment worth in a trade in? At the moment, the numbers don't add up. People who buy a Volt will not be saving money.. Hopefully we can get there with cheaper pricing and a battery replacement program that's affordable etc.. I just don't like an overpriced car already with an incentive paid for by our taxpaying pockets simply because the majority of people in the free market does not want buy one.

I was interested in buying one of these however I will wait to see how reliable they are and what the trade in value's of them will be in a few years. That should be a good indicator of what's to come..
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:51 AM   #86
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This is not good enough for me at this point to take the plunge. Even a 30 minute charge is not as quick as simply filling up your tank at any gas station. I'll have to wait until the technology improves before I buy one of these over any gasoline powered vehicle. I also don't like the risks of spontaneous battery explosions which seem to occur with cell phone lithium ion battery packs. A much larger one inside a car can spell trouble if there is any defect.
....and therein lies the irony. I don't blame you for waiting for the technology to come but it won't come if we don't embrace this car. The more folks that buy this car, the faster GM will be able to produce the $20,000/100 mile EV. GM and it's suppliers are not going to continue to throw money at a technology that has come to market but doesn't sell.

The Volt truly has the ability to become the Grand Daddy of everything to come but we as a society have to buy in. Think of this in the same way we think of technology. Remember when a 52 inch plasma flat screen TV used to cost 10 grand? How about when we used to pay 100 bucks for one meg of Ram?
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:10 AM   #87
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I don't need an electric vehicle to go 70 or 101 mph. What I do need for it to do is operate without consumption of gasoline.
If my wife buys a Volt and her daily commute is 15-20 miles, and the Volt can be plugged in every night, how much gas will she use each month? The answer to this question will be a deciding factor on the purchase of a Volt. Some of the mpg ratings in that story were horrible.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:41 AM   #88
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I don't need an electric vehicle to go 70 or 101 mph. What I do need for it to do is operate without consumption of gasoline.
If my wife buys a Volt and her daily commute is 15-20 miles, and the Volt can be plugged in every night, how much gas will she use each month? The answer to this question will be a deciding factor on the purchase of a Volt. Some of the mpg ratings in that story were horrible.
Technically, assumming she doesn't floor it all the time...

she should never need a drop of gas if she drives it less than 40 miles a day and can charge it between trips.

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Old 10-13-2010, 11:02 AM   #89
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Technically, assumming she doesn't floor it all the time...
she should never need a drop of gas if she drives it less than 40 miles a day and can charge it between trips.

It sounds like you have met my wife.

That's a good answer, I hope it's true.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:05 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by PAUL SS View Post
I don't need an electric vehicle to go 70 or 101 mph. What I do need for it to do is operate without consumption of gasoline.
If my wife buys a Volt and her daily commute is 15-20 miles, and the Volt can be plugged in every night, how much gas will she use each month? The answer to this question will be a deciding factor on the purchase of a Volt. Some of the mpg ratings in that story were horrible.
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Technically, assumming she doesn't floor it all the time...

she should never need a drop of gas if she drives it less than 40 miles a day and can charge it between trips.

GM recently released updated miles-per-charge figures of 25-50 miles. So if she flogs the Volt all over the place and drives it like she stole it, she still won't have to use gas. If she babies the car and hypermiles, she may be able to go two days without a charge and still not use gas.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:05 AM   #91
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....and therein lies the irony. I don't blame you for waiting for the technology to come but it won't come if we don't embrace this car. The more folks that buy this car, the faster GM will be able to produce the $20,000/100 mile EV. GM and it's suppliers are not going to continue to throw money at a technology that has come to market but doesn't sell.

The Volt truly has the ability to become the Grand Daddy of everything to come but we as a society have to buy in. Think of this in the same way we think of technology. Remember when a 52 inch plasma flat screen TV used to cost 10 grand? How about when we used to pay 100 bucks for one meg of Ram?
Well... Military research may come into play here. Due to the supply lines into Afghan always getting hit, the military is beginning to seriously look into renewable forms of energy that don't need to be trucked into a war zone. That or the Chinese will beat us to it and we'll just copy their tech.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:06 AM   #92
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Wow, there was a lot of information to process in this thread. Very good read.

Thanks guys!!!


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Old 10-13-2010, 11:46 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Actually it's not kinda silly. Obviously there are safeguards and a cooling system for the battery, however if one gets too hot because of a breakdown in one of the systems keeping it cool, then kaboom.. Or perhaps an accident hitting a heated battery causing an explosion. These are legitimate concerns I have. Crash test ratings only look at specific crashes at 40mph. We will not know of these dangers until these vehicles hit the road.



I hear ya. However even with the incentives, it is still very expensive outright. I understand the savings however how much will a new battery cost once its charge is half of what it used to be? What will that make your investment worth in a trade in? At the moment, the numbers don't add up. People who buy a Volt will not be saving money.. Hopefully we can get there with cheaper pricing and a battery replacement program that's affordable etc.. I just don't like an overpriced car already with an incentive paid for by our taxpaying pockets simply because the majority of people in the free market does not want buy one.

I was interested in buying one of these however I will wait to see how reliable they are and what the trade in value's of them will be in a few years. That should be a good indicator of what's to come..
You are worried about the battery exploding, yet have no concern about gas tank in nearly every single car? Gasoline is far more dangerous than lithium ion batteries.

As for the battery longevity, its my understanding that there should be minimal degradation over the first 10 years since it will only use roughly half its capacity on a regular basis. This preserves the battery and provides a buffer as it slowly losses capacity
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:50 AM   #94
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You are worried about the battery exploding, yet have no concern about gas tank in nearly every single car? Gasoline is far more dangerous than lithium ion batteries.

As for the battery longevity, its my understanding that there should be minimal degradation over the first 10 years since it will only use roughly half its capacity on a regular basis. This preserves the battery and provides a buffer as it slowly losses capacity
Plus GM warranties the battery for 8 years and 100,000 miles.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:56 AM   #95
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That or the Chinese will beat us to it and we'll just copy their tech.
Haha! Wouldn't that be a change....
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:57 AM   #96
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As for the Volt owner not saving money..................let's look at an experiment.

Let's say gas is ONLY $3.00 per gallon.

Let's compare a 2011 Cruze (loaded at 26,800) and a Volt ($44,000 Loaded)

Let's subtract the $7,500 tax incentive so now we are at 26,800 vs. 36,500 or simply $10,000 premium for the Volt.

So let's say you are one of the customers (70%) that only drive 40 miles per day.

For the comparision, let's say you can get 32 mpg real world driving with the Cruze (not the 40 you'd get for pure highway driving)

So 40 miles per day x 7 days per week, x 52 weeks per year. That's 14,560 miles

14,560 divided by 32 mpg is 455 gallons x $3.00 per gallon equals $1,365 in fuel cost per year SAVED by the Volt driver.

So only looking at the 8 years of battery warranty you would save $10,920. That saves the Volt drive $900. If you expand that for additional years, the savings continues at $1,365 per year.

And the savings go up if gas goes up or if you compare to a car that gets worse FE than a Cruze. I'm not betting on gas staying as low as it is over the next several years either.

So it isn't a money loser at all.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:24 PM   #97
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I don't know if this was already posted but:

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The surprising news is that, after you deplete the 16-kW-hr battery and the engine switches on, a clutch connects the engine and generator to the planetary transmission so the engine can help turn the wheels directly above 70 mph. This improves performance and boosts high-speed efficiency by 10-15 percent.
How is this at all bad or misleading to the point that it has received so much press attention??? I hate to say it, but raising a stink about such a case reminds me of a political ad. I mean the press was so tilted one way to make it sound like Chevrolet is full of crap and the Volt is crap, that you almost believe it. But really, when the battery is depleted, and the car goes over 70mph, the gas motor propels the wheels? Really? The world is ending!!!
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:27 PM   #98
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I don't know if this was already posted but:



How is this at all bad or misleading to the point that it has received so much press attention???
Because if its mechanically driven, its not driven solely by electricity and therefore cannot be an EV like GM's been claiming
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