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[2010 SS RS]

I really am stirring the pot today..guess I better go to bed before I get in too much trouble. Its Toms fault...he started all this..lol

[Mike@RMCR]

Originally Posted by 2010 SS RS

I hear crickets...lol

Not sure where a car making 6lbs of boost and making 550 RWHP SAE corrected and maybe putting down 407 RWHP uncorrected in colorado springs is taxing the fuel system with 66lb injectors. We have seen less than 3psi fuel pressure drop and duty cycles are in the 60% range.

This hobby gets addicting and everyone loves to push to see where the limits are. That being said. I have yet to break a stock LS3 Bottom end since they were released in 08 in the Corvettes. With a Vortech installed on it. We have over 40 cars out there making 700+ RWHP SAE corrected HP and several with over 40K miles on them with no problems.

Every package I match to what the customers budget and needs. If we know the car is being raced every weekend we will suggest the necessary items. If it is just a weekend cruiser and they just want a fun street car we also have packages for that.

We still have the fasted record for the fastest C5 Corvette at the Texas mile and we drove that car there raced all weekend and drove it home with over 1050 RWHP. This car also won Silver State in 2007 in there One Mile event and got 3rd in his class in the road race event. Then drove it home.

Its all in what the customer wants. We started this company making security vehicles for GM. Including making the supercharged Raptor Suburban with 7.62mm Gatling Machine gun trucks. Our clients were Secret Service, CIA and several foreign governments including Jordan and UAE. We have been doing this a long time and we test every package before we sell.

Also when you get to higher HP cars. People forget that there is maintenance that goes with them. The factory or even a after market clutch usally dont last 80K miles at high hp levels. We have seen 7k carbon clutchs only last one race weekend. Also if you drag race every weekend there is going to be drive line components that are just going to plain wear out.

The most bang for the buck is always going to be forced induction. The main killer to LS3 engines is heat, not HP. That is why when buying a supercharger you want one that is efficient. The Vortech is almost 80% efficient, this is why we can make more HP with less boost. We have this documented and so do several other companies. This is why we can run these HP levels and still be safe. This is also how we can make the same HP as other brands with almost 4lbs less boost.

We tailor these packages to where the customer is going to live. Why build a car for an altitude that you maybe drive to once a year for a few weeks. Saying this we then offer the customer the choice of either having us change the pulley back or by there choice shift the car early @ sea level. We also tune in a way that the ECM can adjust to the altitude changes since several customers live @ almost 10K feet and then drive the car all over the country.We also just started on our stroker packages a 3 year unlimited mile warranty reguardless the HP.

Hope this helps. Sorry I could not get back earlier. Told my wife we would spend today with the family.

As always feel free to call me, text, email or message with any questions. Hope everyone has a great night.

Also I am not trying to pick fights or starting anything. I dont think anyone else is either. I am just offering my opinions take them how you would like.

I just love cars and love the hobby.

Mike
RMCR

[2010 SS RS]

Nice resume Mike...I am not disputing your capabilities at all. In fact, I first became aware of you unknowingly while reading about your Dads Impala SS as that was my favorite car back then and I wanted one very bad.

Here is what I am saying and why. Clearly Detonation is the cause of most of the problems that happen...Would you not agree with that?

Detonation is an erratic form of combustion that can cause head gasket failure as well as other engine damage. Detonation occurs when excessive heat and pressure in the combustion chamber cause the air/fuel mixture to autoignite. Clearly when you have the opportunity to build an engine to your chosen specs or sell one of your engines you buy from an engine builder, if its forced induction, dont you go with a lower compression than the 10.7 to 1 stock ls3 compression? And isn't this to reduce the chance of detonation in a pressure increased and larger fuel charge.? And would you not agree that the stock pistons and rings along with the connecting rods in a stock ls3 are inferior to the stock set up in a factory built lsa or ls9 application?

Fuel. This is vital in a FI car. More air requires more fuel. This is probably one of the most discussed and opinionated subjects on the internet and forums right now. If you are short on fuel what happens? If you are low in octane what happens? Are you saying that there have been no failures of BAP systems out there? My opinion is to overbuild the fuel delivery system as it is the most vital component of any build period. Just about every catistrophic failure has been fuel delivery related in some way. And in my opinion a/f setting run on a dyno in 4th gear for 20 seconds is far from accurate real world results. Thus having parts including gaskets, pistons, rings, contecting rods and specified bolts are critical as they will be more forgiving to those real world issues that a FI car can be exposed to.

I say simply and clearly in my personal experiece and opinion. Start with fuel and build from the inside out to end up with a dependable and well performing engine. And you dont have to venture too far from what manufacturers and all the millions of dollars of development have determined to be basic components required for supercharged/turbocharged applications. And clearly stock ls3 components are just that....stock ls3 components!

If you search thru Camaro5 there are no less than 200 5th gen camaros that have been Supercharged and have ended up with internal damage and have had to build them back up. There are thousands that are FI on stock internals with no problems yet. Am I jaded to the conservitive side....You bet. I built mine knowing it potentially could have problems. And sure as sh#& at 571 rwhp and less than 1000 miles my bottom end went away. So I simply want to temper the enthusiasm of the venders when they confidently say....There will be no problems! If they believe that then they should put it in writing and provide a replacement warranty and subsequent damage warranty for any package they are willing to install.....Or disclaim the modification as having potential shortfalls and what damage can occur. And I know this just does not happen. However, the engines with the forged internals you are selling do have awesome protection....which I feel is a great thing, and shows the confidence in supporting the proper package.

I am not attacking you in any way Mike. I in fact said I know you can do the work and do it well.

Ok that is my .02 cents worth again for the 3rd or 4th time. So enough stirring the pot here from me. Thanks Tom....all was good till you set this all up with your post...bahahahaaha.

[ToolFan66]

Originally Posted by 2010 SS RS

Congrats....We are getting them out this morning for breakfast at Sams no 3 Havana and Parker at 9AM Come on out if you can.

I missed this post

Next time!!!!!

[tom692010]

That's me the sh** stirrer from Jersey. Never was one to beat around the bush.
By the way the only other team I despite more than the Pats are the Jets.
A large hole could open up next week at Foxboro and swallow both those teams and I'd consider it a Superbowl season for me!

[NickJ]

Originally Posted by ToolFan66

I missed this post

Next time!!!!!

Are the roads down there driveable? 285 into town closed up here , accident. Only a couple inches of snow..

[ToolFan66]

Originally Posted by NickJ

Are the roads down there driveable? 285 into town closed up here , accident. Only a couple inches of snow..

Driveable but not in the Camaro we only have a couple inches as well..

I live not to far from C470 and Bowels..

[2010 SS RS]

yeah definately not camaro weather unless you are Chris....He is probalbly out there playing in the snow...lol

[NickJ]

Originally Posted by 2010 SS RS

yeah definately not camaro weather unless you are Chris....He is probalbly out there playing in the snow...lol

Not me. I just put mine in the garage yesterday afternoon. I put the Pirelli Scorpions on it just in case...

[tom692010]

Hey I have studded snows on. Wife has car out right now as I post.

[WYcamaro]

Heh yeah, me or Tom. I think we are the only two that brave the snow. I try not to drive in the snow here unless I have to. My car does great, other cars...

[2010 SS RS]

Yeah I just got back from wal mart for cleaning materials and the roads are really getting bad now. Looks like tomorrow morning will be a pain. Come on plows do your job!

[Commit and Conquer]

Good stuff guys! Great info it gives me a lot to think about. Planning to visit with MIke this week to figure out the best option for my needs, or should I say wants...? Stay tuned!

Thanks to Larry, Tom, Mike, and Brian for sharing your knowledge and opinions.

If anyone on C5 needs me to share my ignorance so these guys will tell you what you need to know just let me know.


Joe

[Clint@A.I.R.]

Originally Posted by walhan_qtr

Clint@ American intense racing. 303-250-1466

Clint installed heads/cam/intake on my Z06 and he tuned it too among many other cars. he recently did a cam/headers/cai/tvs2300 on an ls3 camaro that put down 650whp. great prices too

Thx for the recommendation Yea Ahmed's car came out great and for a good price.

Commit and Conquer

Here's the thread on that car. Put down 650 RWHP 606 RWTQ with bolt on's, Custom cam and maggie w/8psi.

Love the TQ !!, Car see's 550+ RWTQ from 2500 past 6000 rpms.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116046

Here's the Video of he run on the dyno.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=600709850683



I Read through the thread this last week... Good stuff. I believe most points have already been pointed out.

Main Topic.

Fuel - Fuel - Fuel
Tune - Tune -Tune

On that topic, 2 situations for you.
Scenario 1 -- Spot on fuel system and a Average Tune.
Scenario 2 -- Spot on tune and inadequate fuel system.

Both these Scenario's above could spell piston failure. When you go FI make sure you get all your ducks in a row.


Since your thinking of going FI . I'll just tell you now, there's no better bang for the buck, and can be done for a good price. That being said, Vortech is a good blower system, as with Procharger. These centrifugal blowers have great potential to make very good peak power. However, unless you're looking for over 800RWHP, or have a L99 Camaro with a larger stall (which gets you into power right away), my vote goes to the Maggie, E-Force or Whipple type systems Root's blowers for your setup.

Reasons.

- Root's make more power across the entire rpm band (especially torque) vs centrifugal.
- More street ability
- The IAT heat issue of root's blowers in the past I feel have been resolved.
- The Feel of instant power even with 1/4 throttle is frankly unbelievable and hard to beat.
- Overall cost and maintenance I feel is less than a Centrifugal.

Dont get me wrong, Vortech, Procharger, Maggie, EForce, they are all great. I personally had a Procharger centrifugal blower on my car for years with 750RWHP on a LS1, but made nowhere near the lower end HP and TQ these root's blowers make these days, of course this technology was not available 9 years ago though.

Example of power difference, After Larry AKA 2010 SS RS, and I finished his dyno session we compared his numbers to my older numbers from 2004, he made over 250Ftlbs of Tq immediately, and more power through-out the entire pull. The only place I made more power than him was after 6000 rpms. :( by then he would be 4 car lengths in front of me, (race over he won.)

Here's a great compare of Root's VS Centrifugal Both are within 1 psi boost. Both cars were done here at AIR. Notice how the TQ is much greater right off the bat.



I guess the point is, it's all about setup and combo and budget that works best for you.

If your ultimate goal is to make a ton of power, Centrifugal Blowers, Turbo or the expensive Kenne Bell Root's blowers are the way to go, as the Maggie and E-force do run out of steam around 750 RWHP. But if you want to simply enjoy the car, have instant power with a perma grin on your face, well... You know what I'm going to say.

Clint