AutoX Advice for a first timer?

[Level300]

Originally Posted by Pete G

I've never done an autocross but my biggest concern is making sense of the course.
Any in car video I have seen makes it seem like an endless sea of random cones.
I have to assume that once you are in it it must somewhat all come together but as mentioned above I see it gets confusing for others.

I did two course walks at two separate events. The first one with a friend explaining the course/cones, etc. I didn't drive but I was a passenger. I asked every question I could think of at that walk. The second one was at my event. There aren't that many variations as to how the cones are positioned (vert or horiz). What's a bit off to me was how the cones are applied wasn’t consistent. Some gates have horiz cones pointing out the entrance. Then there are some gates that don't have horiz cones pointing to the entrance, just two vert cones spread out. This was at both events I attended. I'm not sure the rhyme or reason behind this. But trust me, you’ll be fine regardless.

Anyway for me, I was mixing up the cones/gates adjacent to and surrounding my actual path. What I though was part of the other side of the course was actually part of my current path so I totally bypassed them. To be honest, I paid attention during the course walk but a lot of it flew out of my head as soon as walked off the course. But don't despair, it's not as bad as it seems. Really!

I'll add the following to Norm and the other's valuable information.
1. Relax! You'll be a bit nervous at the start. You're there to have fun and you will. Deep breaths and smile before you launch! If you forget to smile, don't worry, once the Camaro takes off, one will be planted on your face.

2. You don't have to go super fast on your first run. Just go fast enough so you have enough time to pick out the next gate. If I had a do over, I would have slowed down so I would have registered a clean run my first time out. I would even suggest this be your first goal. Just don't go too slow. Your brain needs to adjust to process the speed at which you are travelling and the objects you are trying to pick out, especially if it's a format (cones) you're not used to tracking. I know this for fact because after a motorcycle track day, on my way home in my car, everything seems to be moving in slow motion. The slow motion sensation stops after 20 mins or so as your brain slows down to process it's current environment. So your brain does speed up its processing the faster you go. It will look like a jumbled mess during the first run but as your brain adapts, you'll pick stuff out faster.

3. Pick your nemisis! It doesn't matter what class or car. Just try and beat a time that's a little ahead of your own time. This helped me become shaper towards the end. I fixated less on reading the cones and more on "flowing" through the cones to beat my "nemisis's" time.

4. The only other thing I would have wanted to investigate more is/was traction control. Part of me thinks that I should have started without traction control (they say you are eventually faster without it). However, with traction control, I was able to focus on learning and not have to worry so much about ALSO controlling the horsepower. Eventually to go even faster, I would have to turn it off and then relearn how to drive again. Traction control on/off is like Jekyll and Hyde. So going forward, I'll be deciding to either turn traction control off or just using Comp. mode. Either way, I will need to really learn how to control the throttle. Just something to think about.

5. From my motorcycle track days..."Its not how fast you go, it's how you go fast!"
Be smooth applying the throttle/brake
Anticipate and be in the proper gear
If you watch the faster guys, their cars turn very fluid and they don't roll on/off the throttle and brake abruptly (relatively speaking). You won’t even have to look at the board to find these guys you will spot them easily by their smoothness and the their exhaust tone as they go around the course.

6. I would also suggest getting a pair of tactical shooting gloves (or driving gloves if you can afford it) if you have a slippery surface steering wheel. It may be hot and your hands will be sweaty and maybe slippery. You'll be moving that wheel quite a bit so grip is important. Tactical gloves because it’s more grip than padding and way cheaper than driving gloves. If you shoot, double win for you.

7. I echo taping up your number the day before. Do everything before so all you have to do is unload, register and drive your car to tech.

Have a great time!

[Pete G]

Thanks Norm / Thanks Level

[Pete G]

So after sleeping on this my take away is this, of course walk the course but no matter how many times you may do so - your brain will not process that at speed while in the car racing so take it easy the first few passes to learn the course but not too slow because of the brain process speed differences from driving too slow and ....... I think you know what I am trying to say, So often in life "slower is really faster"
Second; just go out, have fun, and just expect to get some DNFs at first while learning the course??????
Question - if you go to events at the same location and same organization on different day, is it the same course or do they change it up? ( to kind of level the playing field for regulars and newbies?)

[Burt]

The pointer cones may not all be set up according to the regulations if the people setting the course up don't have a ton of experience, but there should only be pointers on the inside of corners or in slaloms to show you that 1) you need to go on the other side of the upright cone the pointer is pointing towards, and 2) that you will be turning towards the side the pointer cone is on after that gate. A line of pointers can be used on the outside of a corner to show you which way to go, but they should be close enough to form a "wall" you obviously shouldn't go through.

I would recommend, like everyone else, to get as many course walks as possible before the event, and to find someone in a similar car who is fast to walk it with. Autox, like track driving, really comes down to carrying as much speed as possible. I know that seems obvious, but one way to look at it is to look at all of the straights on course. Sort them longest to shortest, and that will tell you the order of importance. The game is getting on the gas at or as soon after the apex as possible, so if you have, say, a short straight followed by a corner and a long straight, you probably want to give up a little speed on the short straight so you can set up the corner to allow you to be on the gas on the long straight as long as possible.

Another thing I'm really bad about myself is braking too late. Once you get the hang of it, a natural reaction is to brake at the last possible moment, but this makes it harder to modulate the braking on entry and easier to over cook the corner, ruining that all-important corner exit.

Just my two cents, and remember, having fun and being safe are the most important things!

[Burt]

And yes, most regions will try to significantly vary the course layout event to event.

[Level300]

Originally Posted by Pete G

So after sleeping on this my take away is this, of course walk the course but no matter how many times you may do so - your brain will not process that at speed while in the car racing so take it easy the first few passes to learn the course but not too slow because of the brain process speed differences from driving too slow and ....... I think you know what I am trying to say, So often in life "slower is really faster"
Second; just go out, have fun, and just expect to get some DNFs at first while learning the course??????
Question - if you go to events at the same location and same organization on different day, is it the same course or do they change it up? ( to kind of level the playing field for regulars and newbies?)

Pretty much! Your first pass will be all you need to get a sense of everything. I recall on my second run, I was focused on going as fast as I could and I was not worried about picking out cones any more, if that makes sense. If you don't DNF on your first run, chances are high you won't DNF on your subsequent runs.

That's a great question. At my event they ran on both sat and sun. I'm not sure if it was the same design on both days.

[Pete G]

Thanks again for the tips guys !!!
After doing road course I didn’t think I had much interest in auto x but you have me curious to say the least.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Pete G

Thanks again for the tips guys !!!
After doing road course I didn’t think I had much interest in auto x but you have me curious to say the least.

You'll have a much better idea about max braking and cornering than the average autocross newbie. But you'll definitely find that even though the speeds are much lower than they are on the big tracks, things happen a lot faster and you won't have nearly as much 'easy' time between successive course features as you're currently accustomed to having between successive corners.


Norm

[Pete G]

Makes sense Norm, I understand

[joelster]

Originally Posted by Level300

UPDATE:

This was my first time driving a car with this much HP. It was a blast. Everything happens SO fast! I DNF on my first run, i missed 2 gates because I got confused with the cones.

The rest of my runs resulted in clean runs with no cone penalties. I droppped 5 seconds on my second run and remained consistent with times as I got used to the cones and speed. It's hard to gauge where and when to brake without lines nor shoulders as in a road course. This event was held at a landing strip.

My last run, i put the car in Comp mode. The rear end spun around me at the back end of the course but I saved it and finished. That cost me one second. In hindsight I should have left traction control on and see if I would have gotten a faster time. Without the spin, I would have tied my best time (at worst case).

There was another 2018 Camaro SS I was trying to catch (best time 49s). I know I would have came close to him had I had another 3 laps or so to work out the turn around apex. My best was a 52s and change.

I had instructors in my car 2x. They were good but they only seemed to help me "see" the gates and not so much with braking/turn-in. Once I figured out the gates/cones, they didn't seem to be much help because things were happening so fast and it was hard to drive AND listen at those speeds (for me).

Some follow up questions:

1. How are you guys finding the proper places to brake/turn in? Is there a trick to this? I'm hugging the cones but at some places, hugging the cones doesn't make a difference.

Each car will be different. Watch the FAST guys in cars similar to yours. Don't pay much attention to the Miata's and MINI's. Their cars are so much narrower and lighter. They will be driving much differently trying to maintain momentum and grazing cones. Keep the windows down all the time. Listen to the tires. You should be hearing squealing but not extreme squealing. That means your near the edge of traction.

Originally Posted by Level300

2. Also, are you competitive guys running with TC, Comp Mode or no nanny mode?

Everything off.

Originally Posted by Level300

3. Where do you guys look to reduce "seconds"?

You shouldn't be coasting or cruising. You should be full throttle out of the gate, and then on the brakes hard at the first turn. I stab the brakes here and there to correct the car in certain situations but not much more than that. In the slaloms try to smack the cone with the ass end of the car. Get the front end just past the cone and as soon as the car his halfway past steer towards it. By the time the car reacts the rear tire will be past it, but really close. You only want to steer as much as necessary in the slalom. Next pass try to go into it 2-3mph faster.

Originally Posted by Level300

4. How do you know you can't go any faster unless you make a mechanical change (tires, suspension, etc.)?

Put the best LEGAL tires on it right now, so you don't have to question the traction. Bridgestone Potenza RE71's are a popular choice. What tires do you run now? Most Novice classes will seriously limit the amount of things you can do to your car. A 1LE is a great car right out of the box.

Originally Posted by Level300

5. Was it even possible to catch that 2018 Camaro? I know they are lighter then the gen 5 (given all things being equal).

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by Level300

Thanks for all the replies!!!!!

Man! That was a lot of FUN!!!!!

I made a poor mans video recorder for my car. I took a generic cell phone dash mount and bolted it to a bracket I built. I unscrew the driverside sun visor and bolt my phone up near the headliner. I shoot a video of most of my runs. Then after my first run, I'll watch the video 2-3 times before my next run, when it's fresh in my head. I also use a GoPro. This is a GoPro video but look by where the visor used to be and you can see my cell phone shooting a video.

[Norm Peterson]

For slaloms, you really need to start turning before you get to each slalom cone. It takes a finite amount of time to crank the steering wheel over, and the car does move down-course a finite distance (could be a whole car length or even more). So you've got to get started a little early.


Norm

[joelster]

In car of the same run. I will usually watch this 2 or 3 times while waiting in the car for my next run.

[Level300]

Originally Posted by joelster

Each car will be different. Watch the FAST guys in cars similar to yours. Don't pay much attention to the Miata's and MINI's. Their cars are so much narrower and lighter. They will be driving much differently trying to maintain momentum and grazing cones. Keep the windows down all the time. Listen to the tires. You should be hearing squealing but not extreme squealing. That means your near the edge of traction.



Everything off.



You shouldn't be coasting or cruising. You should be full throttle out of the gate, and then on the brakes hard at the first turn. I stab the brakes here and there to correct the car in certain situations but not much more than that. In the slaloms try to smack the cone with the ass end of the car. Get the front end just past the cone and as soon as the car his halfway past steer towards it. By the time the car reacts the rear tire will be past it, but really close. You only want to steer as much as necessary in the slalom. Next pass try to go into it 2-3mph faster.



Put the best LEGAL tires on it right now, so you don't have to question the traction. Bridgestone Potenza RE71's are a popular choice. What tires do you run now? Most Novice classes will seriously limit the amount of things you can do to your car. A 1LE is a great car right out of the box.



Absolutely!




I made a poor mans video recorder for my car. I took a generic cell phone dash mount and bolted it to a bracket I built. I unscrew the driverside sun visor and bolt my phone up near the headliner. I shoot a video of most of my runs. Then after my first run, I'll watch the video 2-3 times before my next run, when it's fresh in my head. I also use a GoPro. This is a GoPro video but look by where the visor used to be and you can see my cell phone shooting a video.

Thanks for the advice!

I'm running BFGoodrich G-FORCE COMP-2 A/S. I ran Potenza on my Mini Cooper. It is a great tire, very sticky. They don't last long but they are a great tire.

It is a great car! I specifically sought a 2015 with the 1LE package because I read so many good things about the handling and it also has a lot of up rated parts from the ZL1 so it's stronger. It felt really flat going into turns. I can't wait to see what it can do on a road course.

That's some great driving! Nice videos! Thanks for sharing!

Aw man! You have a Z/28. Sweet! Hold on to that bad boy.

[joelster]

Originally Posted by Level300

Thanks for the advice!

I'm running BFGoodrich G-FORCE COMP-2 A/S. I ran Potenza on my Mini Cooper. It is a great tire, very sticky. They don't last long but they are a great tire.

It is a great car! I specifically sought a 2015 with the 1LE package because I read so many good things about the handling and it also has a lot of up rated parts from the ZL1 so it's stronger. It felt really flat going into turns. I can't wait to see what it can do on a road course.

That's some great driving! Nice videos! Thanks for sharing!

Aw man! You have a Z/28. Sweet! Hold on to that bad boy.

Those BFG's you are running are a 400TW rating. Basically a generic street tire. Practically garbage for competitive racing, unless it's raining, then all of those grooves will come in handy. I looked them up on Tirerack and they are $187 each. That should tell you something about the capability of them. The higher the treadwear rating the harder the tire. The fastest guys will all be running tires right at the legal limit of 200. That's really something you can't skimp on if you want to get the most out of your car.

You said you ran Potenza's on your MINI Cooper, but in reality there are 10+ different kind of Potenza's so without knowing the exact ones you ran, it's hard to say if they were a great racing tire or not. Most of them are really good though.

I'm not trying to discourage you or anything. But if you want to take the racing aspect seriously, you'll need some better tires for sure. A V-6 Camaro with some RE-71's would smoke a 1LE on those hockey pucks you're running at an autocross.

Is your car a daily driver? Or is it more of a toy? If It's a DD, I'd look into getting an extra set of rims for racing and keep the BFG's for street duty.