Cam Install and a Melling Oil pump?

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Ucantctchme

So I should consult you for your superior statistics knowledge when I order parts for an engine build. The Melling pump relief valve and bore fit is superior to the stock unit. I've seen both.

Please Show Us the Hard data to prove this, I am all Ears and Eyes.

Please dont' take offense, I am still waiting for Hard Data to prove the Melling pump is a better pump.

The only difference I see is the spring.

Ted.

[driyac]

Quality alone is a fairly great indicator. I have not seen either units up close but what I can say is that for 2 tanks of gas I'd be upgrading my unit to the Melling to give me a better chance if keeping my motor alive. Like Ted says with all upgrades something is going to break. But that's why you make all these upgrades to hope and pray that something doesn't. Just saying 130$ well spent, and not spent else wear for a little peace of mind.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by driyac

Quality alone is a fairly great indicator. I have not seen either units up close but what I can say is that for 2 tanks of gas I'd be upgrading my unit to the Melling to give me a better chance if keeping my motor alive. Like Ted says with all upgrades something is going to break. But that's why you make all these upgrades to hope and pray that something doesn't. Just saying 130$ well spent, and not spent else wear for a little peace of mind.

That is what melling wants you to believe.

Listen folks I am not trying to talk any one out of anything, I am just interested in seeing the Hard Data.

So Far No one has come up with Any, that is all I am saying.

Go back and look at statistics, the more of an item on the road the more failures you will hear about.

No one reports Melling oil pump failures but I have see them as well.

lets not Treat the Symptom but find the Cause.

Ted.

[J-Rod6410]

I think some one quoted Ted as saying "if it has 50k on it change it, if it doesnt, leave it.

That's what I did. Whenever I do another cam swap on mine I'll change the pump and chain since I got 50k on the clock.


So if you got low miles, leave it..............higher mileage, change it!

[csjcsj]

That's what I'll do! The stock pump went out at 46,000 miles, ill report back in 3 years after the next 46,000 and see if the melling pump has failed!

[LyonsViper27]

Someone changes a chain, this requires unbolting the oil pump and re installing it, Seems easy enough bolts right back in Place RIGHT? WRONG!!!!!!!!

Many do not know the pump must be Adjusted for clearance during the install.

This requires removing the cover and running a feeler gauge around the pump rotor, you must have the same clearance all the way around the rotor.

Can you elaborate on this ted?

[Russell James]

Here is an article that talks about centering the oil pump. Basically it has to be centered before tightened down. Can be done several ways.... rotate engine if you can tip the engine straight up (awkward), feeler gages, or aftermarket shims (fancy feeler gages) like talked about in this article. I think most use feeler gages as it is being snugged up, along with rotating the engine.

If anyone wipes out an oil pump right after a cam install, it wasn't a coincidence, the shop didn't center the oil pump, or tore the O ring.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...__systems.aspx

pics in here on how to use the shims to check for centering ( I think this looks best for a DIY job, comes with instructions too)

http://www.schumannsdynamicperforman...nment-kit.html

[LyonsViper27]

Thank you Russell James
Ill be adding that to my list

[flht99b]

Just my opinion but I believe the fact the Melling pump is cast iron where the pressure relief valve is makes the whole pump more stable across temperature ranges and thus less prone to the piston becoming stuck. At my buddies repair shop he and I have seen OEM LS engine pumps fail ( pressure relief piston stuck ) in as little as 2K miles to 100K miles.
Ed M.

[litle88]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

That is what melling wants you to believe.

Listen folks I am not trying to talk any one out of anything, I am just interested in seeing the Hard Data.

So Far No one has come up with Any, that is all I am saying.

Go back and look at statistics, the more of an item on the road the more failures you will hear about.

No one reports Melling oil pump fail ures but I have see them as well.

lets not Treat the Symptom but find the Cause.

Ted.

Ted with all do respect I just got off the phone with an engineer from Melling I will PM you his name, email address and phone number. I spent about an hour talking to him and he is as passionate as we are.

First thing is they cannot come in and publish info for us because GM is a client of theirs. We both know what that would create.

Secondly the Melling pumps are completely redesigned not upgraded. The biggest failures on stock pumps are the valves sticking using two different materials and that will wear the bore out. The stock pumps have very tight tolerances using a steel cover and powdered metal rotors with the heat some will even seize together, yes the cover and rotors will Gall and seize together.

Third the Mellings have a what they call a sacrificial ring machined into them. It is a 60 or 100 thou ring that will center the pump and allow the crank to touch it due to movement of the crank. So as far as having to center them it's really not necessary but if installers want to that is fine if they want to take it apart. The crank pulley also assists in centering the pump.

Stock GM springs start to move at 8psi
And begin to regulate at 15psi

Melling stock replacement M295 begins to move at 14psi and regulate at 20psi

Compared to the Melling 10296 the valve starts to move at 27psi and regulate at 33psi.

The darkened color of the pumps is not to make then look pretty its because melling takes the time to machine the surfaces, use an anodize to hardened to material, heat treat and remeasure the pump to specs. That is a lot of work for a 130.00 pump that can last YOU and US members of this community more than 100k miles with peace of mind.
What does melling want us to believe? They don't, GM is their customer. All they did was offer the common folks 6 different better pumps that are better than OEM.
Yes Ted Melling is an upgrade from the reengineering to the materials to the machining of the pump.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by litle88

Ted with all do respect I just got off the phone with an engineer from Melling I will PM you his name, email address and phone number. I spent about an hour talking to him and he is as passionate as we are.

First thing is they cannot come in and publish info for us because GM is a client of theirs. We both know what that would create.

Secondly the Melling pumps are completely redesigned not upgraded. The biggest failures on stock pumps are the valves sticking using two different materials and that will wear the bore out. The stock pumps have very tight tolerances using a steel cover and powdered metal rotors with the heat some will even seize together, yes the cover and rotors will Gall and seize together.

Third the Mellings have a what they call a sacrificial ring machined into them. It is a 60 or 100 thou ring that will center the pump and allow the crank to touch it due to movement of the crank. So as far as having to center them it's really not necessary but if installers want to that is fine if they want to take it apart. The crank pulley also assists in centering the pump.

Stock GM springs start to move at 8psi
And begin to regulate at 15psi

Melling stock replacement M295 begins to move at 14psi and regulate at 20psi

Compared to the Melling 10296 the valve starts to move at 27psi and regulate at 33psi.

The darkened color of the pumps is not to make then look pretty its because melling takes the time to machine the surfaces, use an anodize to hardened to material, heat treat and remeasure the pump to specs. That is a lot of work for a 130.00 pump that can last YOU and US members of this community more than 100k miles with peace of mind.
What does melling want us to believe? They don't, GM is their customer. All they did was offer the common folks 6 different better pumps that are better than OEM.
Yes Ted Melling is an upgrade from the reengineering to the materials to the machining of the pump.

Now THAT!!! is an Answer

It also explains why you can't find any hard data published.

Ted.

[litle88]

Yes sir I believe so as well.

[litle88]

He even went on to say that the M295's help out the guys/gals having cold start issues with the AFM lifters. The stock pumps at idle do not flow enough and the AFM lifters actually bleed out lol. So that was good info to have incase it comes up here or on Ls1tech and give others that option.

[matt55]

Litle88
Good info and that's for doing the legwork .