Price Gouging Dealers

[2010SS2SS]

Heavy D you are right and I agree. A profit is a profit but expecting to pick up a car like the Camaro just after release for below MSRP is border line idiotic. People who will never negotiate on some things think they have the right to demand to buy a car below invoice....ITS HILARIOUS!! but then the manufactuers have made it that way. Even now GM is forcing dealers to sell @ GMS pricing, regulating profit margins while THEIR prices to the dealers have held fast.
I have spoken to several local Houston dealers and know that NONE are offering GMS pricing on SS's, you may pick up a v6 with it but good luck to you with a SS. And if they do then their stupid.
Having one or two available is supply and demand. When there are 20 on the lot then it might make more sense.

PAS i'd be more than happy to forward you actual invoice...average markup between invoice and sticker is 1400-1500 with a holdback of around 900-1100, so best case is 2600 profit.

[sailfan26]

Price gouging is price gouging. If you go to Fenway Park and buy a ticket to the Baseball game from a scalper who sells it over the face value of the ticket, that's breaking the law and you WILL get arrested. Is buying the car over MSRP any different? I'm all for the dealers making their profits, how else will they stay in business, but don't give me that BS. Treat your customers right, work with them, most households own more than 1 car, give them a reason to come back and buy that Impala or Malibu. My dealer treated me right, so, when my wife goes to buy a new car in the spring, we're buying an Equinox, not the Volvo she originally wanted. So to the dealers charging over MSRP, good luck!

[Scrappy Doo]

Originally Posted by 2010SS2SS

Heavy D you are right and I agree. A profit is a profit but expecting to pick up a car like the Camaro just after release for below MSRP is border line idiotic. People who will never negotiate on some things think they have the right to demand to buy a car below invoice....ITS HILARIOUS!! but then the manufactuers have made it that way. Even now GM is forcing dealers to sell @ GMS pricing, regulating profit margins while THEIR prices to the dealers have held fast.
I have spoken to several local Houston dealers and know that NONE are offering GMS pricing on SS's, you may pick up a v6 with it but good luck to you with a SS. And if they do then their stupid.
Having one or two available is supply and demand. When there are 20 on the lot then it might make more sense.

PAS i'd be more than happy to forward you actual invoice...average markup between invoice and sticker is 1400-1500 with a holdback of around 900-1100, so best case is 2600 profit.

So if you are making 2,600 on a msrp sale then why don't you sell it for that? Isn't that enough? You would be better served by selling more units cheaper then a few units marked up.

I mean seriously, it's not like there is a lot of "salesmenship" to sell this car right now. People walk in, order it, and leave. I doubt you are talking people into camaros that want to buy an aveo....

I don't think dealers that sell for msrp are stupid. They are out to take care of customers for the long run. Think how many people see your inflated prices, get pissed off, and won't spend a nickel at your dealership. You make some money now, but 6 months when the market cools off you will have a lot of people that won't consider your business.

To each is own I guess. I understand why you have them marked up. I am just a better person than that and spend my money at dealers that respect that.

[HeavyD]

The only people I know that expect lower than invoice is my father-in-law. LOL. (sorry Doug) Lower than invoice is an insult to the dealer and one end of an extreme, $5000 over MSRP is an insult to the buyer and at the other end of the extreme. I have a hard time feeling sorry for you about people expecting lower than invoice. That is human nature to get the most for the least. I really find it hard to believe that everyone who walks into your show room demands less than invoice so you have to mark the car up. I think everyone walks away a winner when the deal is done at MSRP.

[jmalecek]

Originally Posted by Scrappy Doo

So if you are making 2,600 on a msrp sale then why don't you sell it for that? Isn't that enough? You would be better served by selling more units cheaper then a few units marked up.

That's the whole point...there isn't "more" to sell...

We all buy things that are price gouged...For example, a LCD television, has about a 35% mark up. Did you scream on the Panasonic and Sony Forum boards that you are getting ripped off? No, you didn't.

Other posts are saying, "It's gouging, people just simply can't afford a 20% markup on a 40,000 car...

Well guess what? Maybe they shouldn't be buying a $40,000 car...for the same reason they bought a $1500 dollar tv instead of a $6,000 tv.

Yes I am a dealer...yes I am charging over MSRP for my STOCK camaros...you wan't to order one, I'll do it for MSRP. If you don't like that policy...that's why there are plenty of other dealers to go to...and why there is competition.

This is only a problem in American Car Companys...Try and go buy a lexus...you think you ever get a deal on a lexus? No. You may get invoice...or close to it, but there are no dealer incentives ever...how much of a kickback do you think a Lexus dealer gets from Toyota every month? Let me tell you, it's a pretty large sum.

It's as simple as this: If you don't like the price...take it like a man...and don't buy the car...don't come crying and whining on a forum board that they are doing something SOOOOO wrong...cause let me tell you...a car dealers front end gross profits for sales are extremely low...My dealer sells about 1.5 million in cars every month....and we gross $150,000? You think that's right? 10%? I understand we're dealing with large numbers here, but at the same time...that doesn't effect what my gross profit should be...a tv company wouldn't want the profits of a bannana company would they? You're crazy if think so.

Jeff

[reefdiver]

Wow Jeff....

I'm sure you feel better after that.

Why not put your dealerships name here so we can all avoid you! My time, like yours is worth something.

The point, paying more than a car is worth, is the point! When some poor consumer pays over MSRP after hearing your BS about "Market Adjustment" he/she is going to be really pissed in two to three years when he/she's still upside down. That my friend is how and why car salesmen got the bad name they have. A good businessman worries about the obligation their putting their customer in. Your just made we realize it.
I'll put it like the good witch put it in the Wizard of OZ... "You better get out of here before a house falls on you...my dear."

[djinva]

Originally Posted by sailfan26

Price gouging is price gouging. If you go to Fenway Park and buy a ticket to the Baseball game from a scalper who sells it over the face value of the ticket, that's breaking the law and you WILL get arrested. Is buying the car over MSRP any different? I'm all for the dealers making their profits, how else will they stay in business, but don't give me that BS. Treat your customers right, work with them, most households own more than 1 car, give them a reason to come back and buy that Impala or Malibu. My dealer treated me right, so, when my wife goes to buy a new car in the spring, we're buying an Equinox, not the Volvo she originally wanted. So to the dealers charging over MSRP, good luck!

[jmalecek]

Originally Posted by reefdiver

Wow Jeff....

I'm sure you feel better after that.

Why not put your dealerships name here so we can all avoid you! My time, like yours is worth something.

The point, paying more than a car is worth, is the point! When some poor consumer pays over MSRP after hearing your BS about "Market Adjustment" he/she is going to be really pissed in two to three years when he/she's still upside down. That my friend is how and why car salesmen got the bad name they have. A good businessman worries about the obligation their putting their customer in. Your just made we realize it.
I'll put it like the good witch put it in the Wizard of OZ... "You better get out of here before a house falls on you...my dear."

You missed the point of my statement...

I never said it's RIGHT or WRONG. I said it's the consumers decision to buy the vehicle or not...And when they don't buy it...don't whine about it...

No one, gurenteed, at any dealer is pointing a gun at any consumers head forcing them to pay over sticker. Just don't buy the car...but like I said...take it like a man...and keep shopping.

Let me ask you a question...In 2-3 years when you go to sell your camaro (hypotheticly speaking)...If you get offered 20,000...and KBB and NADA says your car is worth 20,000...but some guy comes to your house and offers you 22,000. You going to feel bad for PRICE GOUGING him? No...of course not...

It's the same thing, just on a larger scale because we're all nationaly ranked dealers. The one thing people forget all the time is it's Manufactuers SUGGESETED retail price...That means NOTHING other than EXACTLY what it says.

Let me be honest with you and myself...I, personally, would NEVER pay $5,000 over...I would wait and order one for MSRP and just wait for my car...but is it really any dealers fault that an individual can't do that? The only dealers that I feel are doing something "wrong" are ones that are charging over M*SUGGESTED*RP for factory orders.

But if I'm going to have a car sit on my lot...take my time and sell it for what *I* want to get for it...that means I'm paying the taxes and floor plan on the vehicle...now I have even less profit...

All I'm saying is...don't cry. Don't whine. And most importantly...just don't buy the car.


Let me give you a little background story... I had a gentleman that had a 2SS black camaro on order...it was about 3-4 weeks away from being delivered. I had another one come in for another guy...he lost his job, and backed out of the deal cause he could no longer afford the car. 2 days later, this other guy comes in...sees the car, I explain the situation to him, told him it's got a sunroof, where his didn't...he said, exact words, "If I give you $1500 over sticker, can we cancel my order and just buy this one?"

Am I the bad guy? No. It's called Supply and Demand.

Jeff

[sailfan26]

Originally Posted by jmalecek

You missed the point of my statement...

I never said it's RIGHT or WRONG. I said it's the consumers decision to buy the vehicle or not...And when they don't buy it...don't whine about it...

No one, gurenteed, at any dealer is pointing a gun at any consumers head forcing them to pay over sticker. Just don't buy the car...but like I said...take it like a man...and keep shopping.

Let me ask you a question...In 2-3 years when you go to sell your camaro (hypotheticly speaking)...If you get offered 20,000...and KBB and NADA says your car is worth 20,000...but some guy comes to your house and offers you 22,000. You going to feel bad for PRICE GOUGING him? No...of course not...

It's the same thing, just on a larger scale because we're all nationaly ranked dealers. The one thing people forget all the time is it's Manufactuers SUGGESETED retail price...That means NOTHING other than EXACTLY what it says.

Let me be honest with you and myself...I, personally, would NEVER pay $5,000 over...I would wait and order one for MSRP and just wait for my car...but is it really any dealers fault that an individual can't do that? The only dealers that I feel are doing something "wrong" are ones that are charging over M*SUGGESTED*RP for factory orders.

But if I'm going to have a car sit on my lot...take my time and sell it for what *I* want to get for it...that means I'm paying the taxes and floor plan on the vehicle...now I have even less profit...

All I'm saying is...don't cry. Don't whine. And most importantly...just don't buy the car.


Let me give you a little background story... I had a gentleman that had a 2SS black camaro on order...it was about 3-4 weeks away from being delivered. I had another one come in for another guy...he lost his job, and backed out of the deal cause he could no longer afford the car. 2 days later, this other guy comes in...sees the car, I explain the situation to him, told him it's got a sunroof, where his didn't...he said, exact words, "If I give you $1500 over sticker, can we cancel my order and just buy this one?"

Am I the bad guy? No. It's called Supply and Demand.

Jeff

Your point well taken, and we agree to disagee.

I am a loyal GM Buyer (over 30 years), and in my simplistic mind, I feel buying GM is good for America (even though the Camaro is built in Canada). It's an American Icon. The American Government bailed GM out and kept them from going extinct. Nuf said.

I buy Chevy. My wife has always bought Chevy (except for her current Volvo). She's about to buy another car. So, guess where she's going to buy? Do you think we will go to a dealer that treated us like the Gentleman above is talking like? The dealers that told us $5K, $3K over MSRP take it or leave it and walk away, oh yeah, I'm headed there!

I'm going to the dealers that were up front with me. Yes they're out there, charging MSRP for the car, on the lot, or ordered. I found them, far and few between. I'll be buying an Equinox from them. My son and daughter will buy from them too. Our collective friends will too. So, is it really worth the $5k?

I totally understand, the dealers are in business to make money, it's cool. They got to do what's right for them. You are not a bad guy. Absolutely not. You're right, it's called "Competition", indeed. Who wins or looses in the end? Both the customer and the dealer.

[electlatino]

so i got this email from tustin chevrolet (copied below) and they are really price gouging. $44,000 for a 1ss before fees, etc.? a used camaro sells for $1,000 more than a new one with almost the exact same features?

if you're in southern california, and orange county especially, avoid Tustin Chevrolet, 16 Auto Center Drive, Tustin, CA


Dear Luis,





We have 3 "NEW" Camaros AVAILABLE!!!



1SS in Rally Yellow w/Black Cloth, Automatic Transmission, Black Stripe Package, RS Package

$44,175.00 + fees

2SS in Rally Yellow w/Black Leather, Manual transmission, Black Stripe Package, Moonroof

$45,595.00 + fees

2SS in Inferno Orange/Inferno Orange leather, Manual transmission, RS Package, Interior Accent Trim Package

$46,720.00 + fees



We also have 1 GM Certified Pre-owned w/380 miles!!!


Instead of having the 3 yr/36,000 mile Bumper-to-Bumper Factory Warranty, it now has the remainder of 4 yr/48,000 mile Bumper-to-Bumper Factory Warranty



2SS in Black w/Black leather, manual transmission, white stripe package, RS Package, moonroof,

$47,990.00 + fees


Please let us know if you are still interested... these cars go fast!





Thank you,



Veronica Paco & Don Osburn


Tustin Chevrolet Internet Department



Tustin Chevrolet

16 Auto Center Drive

Tustin, CA 92782



(714) 731-9100

www.tustinchevrolet.com

veronica@tustinchevrolet.com

[Scrappy Doo]

Originally Posted by jmalecek

That's the whole point...there isn't "more" to sell...

We all buy things that are price gouged...For example, a LCD television, has about a 35% mark up. Did you scream on the Panasonic and Sony Forum boards that you are getting ripped off? No, you didn't.

Other posts are saying, "It's gouging, people just simply can't afford a 20% markup on a 40,000 car...

Well guess what? Maybe they shouldn't be buying a $40,000 car...for the same reason they bought a $1500 dollar tv instead of a $6,000 tv.

Yes I am a dealer...yes I am charging over MSRP for my STOCK camaros...you wan't to order one, I'll do it for MSRP. If you don't like that policy...that's why there are plenty of other dealers to go to...and why there is competition.

This is only a problem in American Car Companys...Try and go buy a lexus...you think you ever get a deal on a lexus? No. You may get invoice...or close to it, but there are no dealer incentives ever...how much of a kickback do you think a Lexus dealer gets from Toyota every month? Let me tell you, it's a pretty large sum.

It's as simple as this: If you don't like the price...take it like a man...and don't buy the car...don't come crying and whining on a forum board that they are doing something SOOOOO wrong...cause let me tell you...a car dealers front end gross profits for sales are extremely low...My dealer sells about 1.5 million in cars every month....and we gross $150,000? You think that's right? 10%? I understand we're dealing with large numbers here, but at the same time...that doesn't effect what my gross profit should be...a tv company wouldn't want the profits of a bannana company would they? You're crazy if think so.

Jeff

you missed the point of my post. If I could sell someone my current truck for 100k I would do it. If you dealers can sell your car camaros for 50k, go ahead and do it. What I am getting at is that you are pissing a lot of chevy buyers off with this tactic. If I walked in and you said 10k over sticker, i would walk out and never spend money at your dealership again.
Go ahead and over charge, if you can sell them then god bless you. Don't think about the long term.....

[01pewterz28]

Bob Steel Chevrolet, Cocoa, FL

The dealership currently has 7 on the lot

White 2SS/RS w/ gfx (unpainted) M6 w/ IOM interior $4k sucker sticker
CGM 2SS/RS w/gfx (unpainted) w/ t-tone interior $4k sucker sticker

Black, Silver, Silver, Silver, 1LT, and 2LT Camaro's w/ a $2500 sucker sticker

*** ALL of the cars listed were picked up at the auction per the sales person***

BTW he said he offers the best prices in town

[Scarlett'sOtherRide]

Originally Posted by Scrappy Doo

So if you are making 2,600 on a msrp sale then why don't you sell it for that? Isn't that enough? You would be better served by selling more units cheaper then a few units marked up.

I mean seriously, it's not like there is a lot of "salesmenship" to sell this car right now. People walk in, order it, and leave. I doubt you are talking people into camaros that want to buy an aveo....

I don't think dealers that sell for msrp are stupid. They are out to take care of customers for the long run. Think how many people see your inflated prices, get pissed off, and won't spend a nickel at your dealership. You make some money now, but 6 months when the market cools off you will have a lot of people that won't consider your business.

To each is own I guess. I understand why you have them marked up. I am just a better person than that and spend my money at dealers that respect that.

I am going to a dealer near my home town. Over an hour and half drive. To order and purchase my Camaro. Why? Because the dealer within walking distance to my house is a price gouger and I will NOT give them my business. They will be lucky to see the car for warranty work. There are other dealers in my area that I can use AAA to get the car to if needed.
The dealer that I am using ONLY sells at MSRP. That includes vettes. I remember as a kid my neighbors bought a new(then) Caprice wagon there. Never heard one complaint about the place. And the mechanics have great reps as well.

The salesman at the dealer down the street asked me what he could do to get my business. I smiled. Shook his hand and said "Sell me the Camaro I order at MSRP" He quickly dropped my hand and said he couldnt do that. I walked out. I am waiting to get mine. And going a distance to do so. Actually taking two trains to pick her up come spring.

[Dave McFly]

Originally Posted by 01pewterz28

Bob Steel Chevrolet, Cocoa, FL

The dealership currently has 7 on the lot

White 2SS/RS w/ gfx (unpainted) M6 w/ IOM interior $4k sucker sticker
CGM 2SS/RS w/gfx (unpainted) w/ t-tone interior $4k sucker sticker

Black, Silver, Silver, Silver, 1LT, and 2LT Camaro's w/ a $2500 sucker sticker

*** ALL of the cars listed below were picked up at the auction per the sales person***

BTW he said he offers the best prices in town