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Old 08-11-2010, 02:26 PM   #43
JProberts

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS View Post
you asked about sway bars and how to set them. I feel it wasn't the appropriate place to go that direction.
Hey Rob, I'm a little confused as to what post this is in reference too? Which direction are your referring to?

Thanks JP
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:39 PM   #44
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So am I!
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Duper View Post
I also found this thread to be extremely informative. This looks like a text book example on how to beat out the competition and win new customers too. Nice job Pedders crew.

Now I fully admit I'm a noob to car suspensions and the like but I had a question for the Pedders team: Why didn't you recommend new urethane inserts, drop coils, or coil overs before a new sway bar during this conversation.
From 'The Book', JusticePete states the following:


Is there a reason to go to sway bars in this situation before the other upgrades or did I miss something in the conversation?

Thanks again.
that was in response to this, it's my opinion that the sway bars should not be the first mod, but historically they typically are one of the first mods, due mostly to incorrect information that is accepted as correct.

Since the post was specifically about sway bars and not other options i was speaking specifically about the sway bars and concerns in regards to them.

and just for the record, comma's are way better than periods.... (except when used in multiples)
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:21 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS View Post
that was in response to this, it's my opinion that the sway bars should not be the first mod, but historically they typically are one of the first mods, due mostly to incorrect information that is accepted as correct.

Since the post was specifically about sway bars and not other options i was speaking specifically about the sway bars and concerns in regards to them.

and just for the record, comma's are way better than periods.... (except when used in multiples)
Ok. I understand. Now. But. I'm not. Sure. About the grammer. Thing.

Later, hope to have some info on my sway bar and end link install tomorrow.
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:11 AM   #47
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Ok. I understand. Now. But. I'm not. Sure. About the grammer. Thing.
Rob knows suspension. Grammar lives on his wife's side of the house.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:42 AM   #48
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Quick review

I got my Pedders front sway bar and endlinks installed yesterday. Here is a quick review of it so far:

Tim at T and T did the install in less than 2 hrs. and he went out of his way to make sure it was done. The Pedders sway bar arrived at TandT without the endlinks and we did not find this out until my car was up on the lift and ready to go. Tim had some endlinks in stock a without hesitation used those for my install and Pedders agreed to send replacement endlinks to Tim ASAP. So a big thumbs up for Tim and the install that his guys did. Have no issues with install at all and will take my car back to TandT for more work without hesitation.

First impression of the upgrade is good. Car feels much firmer generally and on highway at higher speeds much less roll and lean in and out of curves which was one of my main concerns.

Car actually feels easier to drive if that makes since. Feels like I can put it where I want now with out any side to side swaying like I felt before. Feels more like on a rails than before. When switching lanes just feels more responsive than before.

I actually hit a big dip in the road on the highway at about 80mph and the car responded much better than it has before going over this same dip. I made sure to go over this same portion of road becasue I knew what to expect as far as the feel of the car stock and there was a significant difference, the car stayed more on line that it did when stock.

The one negative I felt was when going over the dip mentioned before, and when going over some overpasses with big seems in the road the front end seems to handle the road change differently than the back end, back end feels less firm compared to the front now. Also when at WOT from a light or stop the front seems much more planted than the rear now. Never noticed any difference before this change so not sure if its a result of not having matching F&R sways.

So to sum up so far I am happy with the upgrade to the suspension change and notice there is a difference from stock. At this point I can't say I'm 100%satisfied with the upgrade and can't say for sure that I do not need the rear sway to make it 100% satisfaction.

I will drive it for a week or so and give my final review of this suspension upgrade but so far so good.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:25 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JProberts View Post
I got my Pedders front sway bar and endlinks installed yesterday. Here is a quick review of it so far:

Tim at T and T did the install in less than 2 hrs. and he went out of his way to make sure it was done. The Pedders sway bar arrived at TandT without the endlinks and we did not find this out until my car was up on the lift and ready to go. Tim had some endlinks in stock a without hesitation used those for my install and Pedders agreed to send replacement endlinks to Tim ASAP. So a big thumbs up for Tim and the install that his guys did. Have no issues with install at all and will take my car back to TandT for more work without hesitation.

First impression of the upgrade is good. Car feels much firmer generally and on highway at higher speeds much less roll and lean in and out of curves which was one of my main concerns.

Car actually feels easier to drive if that makes since. Feels like I can put it where I want now with out any side to side swaying like I felt before. Feels more like on a rails than before. When switching lanes just feels more responsive than before.

I actually hit a big dip in the road on the highway at about 80mph and the car responded much better than it has before going over this same dip. I made sure to go over this same portion of road because I knew what to expect as far as the feel of the car stock and there was a significant difference, the car stayed more on line that it did when stock.

The one negative I felt was when going over the dip mentioned before, and when going over some overpasses with big seems in the road the front end seems to handle the road change differently than the back end, back end feels less firm compared to the front now. Also when at WOT from a light or stop the front seems much more planted than the rear now. Never noticed any difference before this change so not sure if its a result of not having matching F&R sways.

So to sum up so far I am happy with the upgrade to the suspension change and notice there is a difference from stock. At this point I can't say I'm 100%satisfied with the upgrade and can't say for sure that I do not need the rear sway to make it 100% satisfaction.

I will drive it for a week or so and give my final review of this suspension upgrade but so far so good.
Thanks for the fair and balanced write-up!

What we are doing works so far. Can I talk you into sub-frame inserts next? Same program. If you are not happy you'll still get the rear bar, but what you are feeling is rear end step out. It has always been there but you not could feel it with the looser front end. We need to address the weakest link in the ZETA II chassis -- sub-frame movement. A rear bar will not change the sub-frame. Inserts will change the rear sub-frame behavior under load. If you do the EP1200 inserts in the back and run those same test spots you will be THRILLED with the result.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:40 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Thanks for the fair and balanced write-up!

What we are doing works so far. Can I talk you into sub-frame inserts next? Same program. If you are not happy you'll still get the rear bar, but what you are feeling is rear end step out. It has always been there but you not could feel it with the looser front end. We need to address the weakest link in the ZETA II chassis -- sub-frame movement. A rear bar will not change the sub-frame. Inserts will change the rear sub-frame behavior under load. If you do the EP1200 inserts in the back and run those same test spots you will be THRILLED with the result.
Ok that is something I will consider. I will drive it for the next week or so and let you know how I feel with the upgrade then.

Hope that others are getting good info from this thread and consider the same things I am. But yeah it is improved for sure. Gotta get used to the new feel before many final judgements.

Thanks
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Old 08-21-2010, 06:43 PM   #51
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Final assesment of Pedders front sway bar installation:

I have been driving the car with the front sway bar addition for a week now and it'ss improved as I mentioned before. The body roll and lean is significantly decreased and the car feels a lot more planted than it did when stock only.

Car handling is much more responsive and the front end really feels planted unlike before. Rides on the bumpy roads as smoothly as before but now the front end doesn't feel like its bumping all over the road when going over really bumpy spots.

Now the rear end feels different from the front when going over these bumpy roads and the rear doesn't feel as planted as the front if that makes sense. Car feels more neutral now than it did and the understeer is minimal but still there along with some body lean/rolll.

So after driving for a week I can say the handling and feel is much improved and overall its a +, but I am not 100% happy and would like to have the rear sway bar and end links also. I think this would make the suspension perfect and completely eliminate the roll and lean I fell and make the car handle perfectly like on rails.

Now Pete you have suggested that I go with the sub-frame inserts next and then go with the rear sway if I was not satisfied but I would rather go with the rear sway and end links as we first talked about to see the improvement alone without the sub-frame inserts.

If I feel I still need them than I will order them but I want to add the rear sway bar set-up first. I am also going to add lowering springs but do not want to purchase the sub-frame inserts at this point. I Really want to see how it rides with lowering springs and sways all the away around before I do anything else. This seems the best way to do this as I can get a feeling and understandng of how each upgrade has affected the cars ride.

Anyway thanks for the help with the decision and the offer with the sway bars and I would like to take you up on that offer and go from there.

Thanks for everything and let me know where we go from here.

JP
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Old 08-21-2010, 09:40 PM   #52
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i would listen to Pete, the problems that you are talking about are more due to the rear cradle moving around. you need to fix the foundation before you lower it and stiffen the rear bar, the sub frame mounts will do that.

I understand what your thinking, but i think that the subframe inserts will get you what you want more so than you realize.
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Old 08-22-2010, 01:25 AM   #53
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:06 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS View Post
i would listen to Pete, the problems that you are talking about are more due to the rear cradle moving around. you need to fix the foundation before you lower it and stiffen the rear bar, the sub frame mounts will do that.

I understand what your thinking, but i think that the subframe inserts will get you what you want more so than you realize.
I will talk to Pete sometime today regarding the sub frame inserts as I do trust his professional opinion. My only question is knowing what enhancement I am getting performance wise with just the sway bars?

This is why I decided to wait to lower the car becasue I wanted to measure the change with the sway bars only as I felt this was the only suspension change I planned and from what I understood from research it was all I really needed to accomplish my goals of:

Getting rid of body lean and roll I feel on highway ramps and twisties.
Making the car feel more responsive when driving spiritedly and generally feeling more like riding on rails instead of the somewhat mushy stock feel.

And fighting the understeer built in the car and having it feel more neutral and responsive to the driver.

As I stated before I am impressed with the change in the car just adding the front sway bar almost got me everything I wanted, I just assumed that the rear sway bar will get me all the way there.

But I am happy with what the Pedders front sway bar alone has done and Pete has been more than helpful and generous in helping me accomplish my goals.......more to come on this.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:23 AM   #55
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I will talk to Pete sometime today regarding the sub frame inserts as I do trust his professional opinion. My only question is knowing what enhancement I am getting performance wise with just the sway bars?

This is why I decided to wait to lower the car becasue I wanted to measure the change with the sway bars only as I felt this was the only suspension change I planned and from what I understood from research it was all I really needed to accomplish my goals of:

Getting rid of body lean and roll I feel on highway ramps and twisties.
Making the car feel more responsive when driving spiritedly and generally feeling more like riding on rails instead of the somewhat mushy stock feel.

And fighting the understeer built in the car and having it feel more neutral and responsive to the driver.

As I stated before I am impressed with the change in the car just adding the front sway bar almost got me everything I wanted, I just assumed that the rear sway bar will get me all the way there.

But I am happy with what the Pedders front sway bar alone has done and Pete has been more than helpful and generous in helping me accomplish my goals.......more to come on this.
Think -- Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts Ooooohm sub-frame bush inserts Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts Repeat after me Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:37 AM   #56
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Think -- Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts Ooooohm sub-frame bush inserts Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts Repeat after me Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts Oooohm sub-frame bush inserts
I hear ya man, I hear you I will get back to your message sometime today and we will decide where to go from here....try saying "sub-frame bush inserts" 3 times really fast and see what you come up with??? I couldn't do it! gonna test my kids with it.
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