Road and Track: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - First Look

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ChallengerSRT

I'm keeping low mileage on my SRT! Better trade in value for this beautiful rocket!

I like how you think! However - that's a a great car. It'd be sweat if you could swing both of them

[Z28RockStar]

Hello friends! Sorry I haven't been posting much, I have been busy. I have however been reading all I can about the new ZL1 as time permits. I knew when GM failed to debut the Z28 things were going down hill, at least from my perspective. From all I have seen this will be a 50K+ car especially if loaded with all options. I believe closer to 60K+ after dealer delivery, taxes and small mods like tinted windows, breather, wheels or pulley etc etc. This is approaching TWICE what a base line 1SS goes for. Almost twice the price for an ugly front fascia, OK hood, terrible name, supercharger and factory warranty? Really? It's all been a big let down for me personally, quite likely and possibly a frame off resto of a 68 or 69 may be headed my way. I will keep you updated. I know I can have a SUPER NICE 68 or 69 with new everything including blown crate motor with lots more smiles to the dollar than the fail ZL1. Sorry as I mean no offense, and actually until I drive one I can not completely rule the ZL1 out, though it's not looking good for the ZL1 in my future.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by thePill

I'm not sure the ZL1 will be much faster than the CTS-V. I always believed that the CTS-V used 3.73 gears but according to Caddy's website http://www.cadillac.com/ctsVCoupe/2011/features-specs/ the 2011 CTS-V manual coupe uses a 4.15 final gear ratio. Another thing to remember too, 19 inch tires will put loads of torque to the ground fast. As far as I know, the CTS-V did not have traction problems with the 285's so with a 4.15 final gear ratio and a 26" diameter wheel/tire, the CTS-V will no doubt accelerate faster than the ZL1. The will be a 100lb difference though.

200 lbs plus or minus, and I don't think that axle ratio information is accurate. Brand sites have been known to have typos, like anything else. This is the official press release for the CTS-V Coupe:
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us...lac_ctsv_coupe

3.73, and 3.23 for the auto and manual, respectively...So it seems like the ZL1 will be getting the same 1st through 6th ratios as the CTS-V...except with a taller axle ratio.

Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS

In one of the releases from GM/Chevy on the day of unveil, an integrated shift light was mentioned. Unless someone else gets it before me I'll post it up.

When I saw the pic of the tach I also assumed the yellow/amber red line was the shift light while illuminated.

I think I've just realize how unimportant a shift-light is to me...I've apparently been ignoring every mention of it without even knowing it.

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

Freer breathing? So your saying the zL1 is gonna have more than the 600hp that the hurst does? Also weight looks extremely similar to what a zL1 should come in at and the hurst comes with the same size tires the zL1 will come with (305/35/20 ps2). The hurst looks pretty close to what to expect from the zl1 I think.

I'm saying that when you take an engine out of a CTS and put it into the Camaro...it gains several horsepower due to a less restrictive exhaust. In the ZL1, it will also benefit from the dual-mode system. So...in my mind's eye, I'm seeing ~570hp...And the Hurst package doesn't have many of the things that will make the ZL1 a winner...namely the suspension and chassis upgrades in addition to the tire/wheel consideration. I fully expect the ZL1 to outperform that car, with no reservations.

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

Well .. to me that's a Formula1/Ferrari/Audi/... like wheel (the flat base).

Besides, if the zl1 is supposed to be the "drag" version of the camaro ... who needs a flat base wheel? Who needs a wheel actually! I mean, i see it as an design being at the same time ugly (that's personal ... i hate Sparks ..), useless (c'mon ... is the camaro really lacking so much room that your knees would touch the wheel?) AND expensive.

Originally Posted by radz28

If you mean drag race version, that is not what ZL1 is about. It's going to do everything great. You don't necessarily need the aero' tricks that ZL1 has given the speeds it would run down the 1320'. You wouldn't need bigger brakes, or brake cooling ducts, etc. ZL1 is meant to the be what ZR1 is for Corvette I believe it has a great amount of more relavent technology than the rest of the competition in it's segment, and it's not going to be the ZL-1 of the past - a one trick pony with a exotic engine. It will be the real deal

+1. SOOOO much more than just a "drag version of the Camaro". In fact, drag racing could be arguably an afterthought for this model....

Originally Posted by Z28RockStar

I knew when GM failed to debut the Z28 things were going down hill, at least from my perspective. Almost twice the price for an ugly front fascia, OK hood, terrible name, supercharger and factory warranty? Really?

I'm....sorry you feel that way?

I haven't seen a single thing about the ZL1 that's made me upset, yet...even the price -- while I understand it's going to be out of some people's reach - it'll be a bargain of a car!!

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

....I'm saying that when you take an engine out of a CTS and put it into the Camaro...it gains several horsepower due to a less restrictive exhaust. In the ZL1, it will also benefit from the dual-mode system. So...in my mind's eye, I'm seeing ~570hp...And the Hurst package doesn't have many of the things that will make the ZL1 a winner...namely the suspension and chassis upgrades in addition to the tire/wheel consideration. I fully expect the ZL1 to outperform that car, with no reservations....

570hp seems logical. youre right even though its down 30hp to the hurst i have a feeling it will be able to accelerate and generate almost the same trap speeds and ETs the hurst got due to better suspension and chassis.

[Z28RockStar]

Hmmm, I wouldn't say it's not financially possible to buy it in cash, though I don't believe I can justify twice the price of a base line 1SS for a supercharger and upgraded suspension with slightly bigger wheels. I could own three nice 1st gens at that price. For a whole lot less, probably half the price I can buy a 2010, add suspension and a super charger and have just as much fun. It's probably just a principle thing for me, I really just want performance and fun. I think if I wanted to spend 60K+- for something that was not a Z28 I probably would have a Vette already. Ehh maybe I am hung on the name, although it may be price as well. I could get one, I will test drive one, the whole time though I will keep 1st gens with big block crate motors and used blown 2010s in mind. I'm not a fan of the ricey looking front fascia, the name, or suede. I am glad others love it though! I do like the new power plant as well. I hope the enthusiasts that justify the extreme markup for a ZL1 love them! As I stated, I will reserve final judgment until I drive one. Just sharing my feelings on the ZL1 thus far. Still a Z28 Camaro fanatic I promise! <3

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

570hp seems logical. youre right even though its down 30hp to the hurst i have a feeling it will be able to accelerate and generate almost the same trap speeds and ETs the hurst got due to better suspension and chassis.

I forgot to make a point of saying that the Hurst package was a supercharger installed on a stock V8 producing an advertised 550, hp not 600. Whereas the LSA was designed from the beginning to include a supercharger...I haven't seen a dyno graph of the Hurst, but peak numbers are only good for bench racing, and I'm willing to bet the LSA is a better formula....

Originally Posted by Z28RockStar

Hmmm, I wouldn't say it's not financially possible to buy it in cash, though I don't believe I can justify twice the price of a base line 1SS for a supercharger and upgraded suspension with slightly bigger wheels.

Well....let's break down the ZL1....quickly. Because the picture you're painting is like a 5-yr old's sketch of the Mona Lisa....

ZL1:

• More functional bodywork and aerodynamics than you can shake a stick at, including a Carbon Fiber hood insert featuring bold heat extraction vents, larger rear spoiler, revised lower-body diffusers and rocker panels. All contributing to increased down force for confident driving at the levels this car is capable of reaching...
• LSA engine, producing 556hp and 550 tq in the CTS-V. A complete engine validated well beyond the most extreme circumstances it will ever encounter by a driver, short of neglect and abuse. (Try almost two full weeks at WOT on for size...)
• Next-Gen Magnetic Ride Control, with the rumored Performance Traction Management software -- making it the most sophisticated handling/suspension packages equipped to any vehicle in the US, short of the ZR1.
• Lighter wheels and tires, resulting in a drastically reduced rotating mass, which will translate to increased responsiveness and acceleration.
• MASSIVE Brembo brakes - rivaling many renowned 'supercars', and eclipsing the closest competition. The track potential of these things is absolutely unreal...
• Wider tires/wheel - which will translate into much more grip and it's worth noting, this flavor of Goodyear Eagle F1 G:2's were developed specifically for the ZL1
• Completely overhauled suspension/chassis for (lightly put) impressive handling dynamics over previous Camaros, and its expected that the competition will be left drooling as well
• Dual-Mode exhaust system - providing an "epic" (dare I say it) sound when you're driving the car. The only other vehicle equipped with this system from the factory is the Corvette. There should also be a weight savings over the SS's mufflers, as well
• "Beefed up" powertrain, including a cast iron differential to handle the power like a 3500 HD. While anything's possible...I think people are going to really have to try to break this thing...
• Electronic Power Steering - providing a greater control over driving dynamics, and driver feedback. Also weight reduction, and efficiency upgrade...
• Further refined interior, including microfiber suede inserts, and a sporty new steering wheel that will aid in transmitting a feeling of nimbleness and responsiveness to the driver.

All that was off the top of my head, so I know I forgot something...but to be very clear -- the ZL1 is MUCH more than just a supercharger with a factory warranty....

I'm a Z28 guy too, Rockstar...but that's no reason to put down the ZL1.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I forgot to make a point of saying that the Hurst package was a supercharger installed on a stock V8 producing an advertised 550, hp not 600. Whereas the LSA was designed from the beginning to include a supercharger...I haven't seen a dyno graph of the Hurst, but peak numbers are only good for bench racing, and I'm willing to bet the LSA is a better formula.....

i bet the LsA IS gonna be a better formula.....for reliabity that is. no doubt about that. In stock form the LsA has proven to be very reliable. But from my experience, if you take 2 supercharged engines producing the same horsepower, the one with more compression will actually have a stronger graph/torque curve so i think the Hurst and ZL1 will have very comparable number throughout the band, not just peak numbers.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

i bet the LsA IS gonna be a better formula.....for reliabity that is. no doubt about that. In stock form the LsA has proven to be very reliable. But from my experience, if you take 2 supercharged engines producing the same horsepower, the one with more compression will actually have a stronger graph/torque curve so i think the Hurst and ZL1 will have very comparable number throughout the band, not just peak numbers.

What sort of supercharger does the Hurst have? I guess I should have gone to figure that out before I said anything...I'd like to compare the dyno graphs to the LSA's. Not for anything...now all this discussion has me curious.

[radz28]

MP2300

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

i bet the LsA IS gonna be a better formula.....for reliabity that is. no doubt about that. In stock form the LsA has proven to be very reliable. But from my experience, if you take 2 supercharged engines producing the same horsepower, the one with more compression will actually have a stronger graph/torque curve so i think the Hurst and ZL1 will have very comparable number throughout the band, not just peak numbers.

Originally Posted by radz28

MP2300

Thanks Radz.

And I misspoke.....again...Hurst Camaro does make 600 hp, I was reading the tq figure without realizing it...

Anyways, here's an SAE-corrected graph for the LSA, and here's a graph from Magnuson...I'm not trying to make any points anymore...it's just fun to look at.

[DarkObsession]

I don't see why people are down on the steering wheel. I think it looks awesome and I actually like the steering wheel in my SS EXCEPT for the fact that you can't reach any of the steering wheel controls on it with normal sized hands

The shape of the SS wheel is great though and the ZL1 looks even better.

Those pics....

[blufin]

Originally Posted by Z28RockStar

Hmmm, I wouldn't say it's not financially possible to buy it in cash, though I don't believe I can justify twice the price of a base line 1SS for a supercharger and upgraded suspension with slightly bigger wheels. I could own three nice 1st gens at that price. For a whole lot less, probably half the price I can buy a 2010, add suspension and a super charger and have just as much fun. It's probably just a principle thing for me, I really just want performance and fun. I think if I wanted to spend 60K+- for something that was not a Z28 I probably would have a Vette already. Ehh maybe I am hung on the name, although it may be price as well. I could get one, I will test drive one, the whole time though I will keep 1st gens with big block crate motors and used blown 2010s in mind. I'm not a fan of the ricey looking front fascia, the name, or suede. I am glad others love it though! I do like the new power plant as well. I hope the enthusiasts that justify the extreme markup for a ZL1 love them! As I stated, I will reserve final judge

nt until I drive one. Just sharing my feelings on the ZL1 thus far. Still a Z28 Camaro fanatic I promise! <3

Good luck finding a dealer that will let you test drive one of these. Not gonna happen. BTW, what a complete 180* turn you've made on this car. For the longest time your posts were all about this car, now it seems the only good part in your opinion is the engine. Oh well, one less buyer to drive the price up.

[Z28RockStar]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I forgot to make a point of saying that the Hurst package was a supercharger installed on a stock V8 producing an advertised 550, hp not 600. Whereas the LSA was designed from the beginning to include a supercharger...I haven't seen a dyno graph of the Hurst, but peak numbers are only good for bench racing, and I'm willing to bet the LSA is a better formula....


Well....let's break down the ZL1....quickly. Because the picture you're painting is like a 5-yr old's sketch of the Mona Lisa....

ZL1:

• More functional bodywork and aerodynamics than you can shake a stick at, including a Carbon Fiber hood insert featuring bold heat extraction vents, larger rear spoiler, revised lower-body diffusers and rocker panels. All contributing to increased down force for confident driving at the levels this car is capable of reaching...
• LSA engine, producing 556hp and 550 tq in the CTS-V. A complete engine validated well beyond the most extreme circumstances it will ever encounter by a driver, short of neglect and abuse. (Try almost two full weeks at WOT on for size...)
• Next-Gen Magnetic Ride Control, with the rumored Performance Traction Management software -- making it the most sophisticated handling/suspension packages equipped to any vehicle in the US, short of the ZR1.
• Lighter wheels and tires, resulting in a drastically reduced rotating mass, which will translate to increased responsiveness and acceleration.
• MASSIVE Brembo brakes - rivaling many renowned 'supercars', and eclipsing the closest competition. The track potential of these things is absolutely unreal...
• Wider tires/wheel - which will translate into much more grip and it's worth noting, this flavor of Goodyear Eagle F1 G:2's were developed specifically for the ZL1
• Completely overhauled suspension/chassis for (lightly put) impressive handling dynamics over previous Camaros, and its expected that the competition will be left drooling as well
• Dual-Mode exhaust system - providing an "epic" (dare I say it) sound when you're driving the car. The only other vehicle equipped with this system from the factory is the Corvette. There should also be a weight savings over the SS's mufflers, as well
• "Beefed up" powertrain, including a cast iron differential to handle the power like a 3500 HD. While anything's possible...I think people are going to really have to try to break this thing...
• Electronic Power Steering - providing a greater control over driving dynamics, and driver feedback. Also weight reduction, and efficiency upgrade...
• Further refined interior, including microfiber suede inserts, and a sporty new steering wheel that will aid in transmitting a feeling of nimbleness and responsiveness to the driver.

All that was off the top of my head, so I know I forgot something...but to be very clear -- the ZL1 is MUCH more than just a supercharger with a factory warranty....

I'm a Z28 guy too, Rockstar...but that's no reason to put down the ZL1.

Ehh I didn't mean to offend anyone, those are just my feelings. I think the price point is too high for what they're offering. As previously stated, I will reserve final judgment until I drive one, however I will refrain from a preorder and down payment. If price point with dealer delivery and tax approaches 60K+ or more if loaded out, I'd rather pay that mount for a tuner car with a warranty and an engine swap with 800+HP and upgraded suspension / brakes / wheels. I'm sorry, I don't like the new fascia, the revised lower-body diffusers and rocker panels, or the suede inserts . . . and the hood is just OK. I do like the suspension upgrade and the mechanical advantages you've pointed out. I will just have to drive one to see if I am stunned. I do not think I will be for 60K. Just opinion and like I said, I will wait to render final judgment. Again bud, I do appreciate your enthusiasm, points of interest and insight, thank you man.

[edz10ss]

I guarentee the zl1 will be faster than the gt500 shelby. They will not release it til they know its better in just about every category. They have been testing it against the Ford. I was gonna put a supercharger in my ss this summer.(pro charger or paxton novi 1500) Dont know if I should just do a bunch of upgrades in my current car or buy the zl1. Don't know if I can wait another year for it to come out.