Z/28 will be $69,000 (rumor)

[silverds]

Originally Posted by Doc

They may have "pissed off" those who just want to drive around in a status symbol but real racers can't wait to get their hands on this thing. I think it's going to sell out quickly and you WON'T see a glut of them appearing on the used car market a few months after. I think we're witnessing the birth of a new legend.

I don't know for certain what makes someone a "Real "Racer but it seems to me that asserting one's own "realness" in any occupation or hobby makes one less credible and presumably delusional.

I've never heard anyone imply they are "real" Doctor or a "real" Astronaut. I've never heard anyone describe themselves as a "real" Police Officer or a "real" pilot.

I'm not sure I've ever head anyone describe themselves as a "real" golfer or a "real" musician either; At least not anyone who was credible in that venture.

The Z/28 will be sold to "real" customers. That means anyone with the ability to sign their name on the sales contract. What happens to the car after that is anyones guess.

[90503]

Until I see the Camaro pictured above in person, I'm gonna hold off on deciding whether or not I like how it looks...Just can't tell from a picture alone....Same holds true for the Z/28...lol

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by Doc

They may have "pissed off" those who just want to drive around in a status symbol but real racers can't wait to get their hands on this thing. I think it's going to sell out quickly and you WON'T see a glut of them appearing on the used car market a few months after. I think we're witnessing the birth of a new legend.

Here's my question. All these die hard original Z/28 fans that grew knowing what a real Z was/is;when they've died off, you could call it baby boomers as well whatever.. You think this car will still carry its "legendary" status? If you think for one second that these cars will be collectible in the future that "may be" delusional. Notice how many products the baby boomers made hugely collectible and now their prices are beginning to fall like the 1959 les paul, base ball cards, comic books, muscle cars and yea they've dropped in price. Ppl who own them are holding onto to them in hopes the market corrects itself and continues into the stratosphere. That 1970 chevelle SS LS6 #s matching won't be worth the $120k in 20 yrs as it is today. Prices will fall as collectibles are fixated on the now and not tomorrow. Look at society and tell me ppl dont want shit yesterday and could careless about waiting 30-40yrs. Instant gratification rules the U.S. and it won't stop. If its a popular product today doesn't mean it'll be popular tomorrow. iPhone is a prime example. Legend? Maybe now but don't count on it holding water in a decade plus.

[Bomino]

Originally Posted by Wizard1183

Here's my question. All these die hard original Z/28 fans that grew knowing what a real Z was/is;when they've died off, you could call it baby boomers as well whatever.. You think this car will still carry its "legendary" status? If you think for one second that these cars will be collectible in the future that "may be" delusional. Notice how many products the baby boomers made hugely collectible and now their prices are beginning to fall like the 1959 les paul, base ball cards, comic books, muscle cars and yea they've dropped in price. Ppl who own them are holding onto to them in hopes the market corrects itself and continues into the stratosphere. That 1970 chevelle SS LS6 #s matching won't be worth the $120k in 20 yrs as it is today. Prices will fall as collectibles are fixated on the now and not tomorrow. Look at society and tell me ppl dont want shit yesterday and could careless about waiting 30-40yrs. Instant gratification rules the U.S. and it won't stop. If its a popular product today doesn't mean it'll be popular tomorrow. iPhone is a prime example. Legend? Maybe now but don't count on it holding water in a decade plus.

Of course. legends are passed down.

I wasn't even a thought in 1969, but i'd like to say i am well aware of the Camaro's legendary heritage. I'll tell my Kids, and if they are enthusiasts as i am, they will tell there's and so on. that is how legends are passed down.

On top of that, GM intelligently uses the z/28's heritage to market the car. this will help others understand the history behind these cars as well.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by silverds

I don't know for certain what makes someone a "Real "Racer but it seems to me that asserting one's own "realness" in any occupation or hobby makes one less credible and presumably delusional.

I've never heard anyone imply they are "real" Doctor or a "real" Astronaut. I've never heard anyone describe themselves as a "real" Police Officer or a "real" pilot.

I'm not sure I've ever head anyone describe themselves as a "real" golfer or a "real" musician either; At least not anyone who was credible in that venture.

The Z/28 will be sold to "real" customers. That means anyone with the ability to sign their name on the sales contract. What happens to the car after that is anyones guess.

Let me help you out so you'll "know for certain".

A "real" racer is someone who takes their car out on a track and races it or drives for a team that races cars.

A "status symbol" driver is someone who's never been on a track and isn't going to drive on a racetrack, but they want to appear as though they do by driving around in a car that appears to be a "real" race car.

A "real" racer understands the value and cost of racing and generally doesn't complain about the price.

A "status symbol" driver is VERY price conscious and just wants the appearance without the cost.

Do you see a lot of people walking around dressed as doctors, wearing astronaut suits, dressed as police officers, dressed as pilots, dressed as golfers, carrying a music instrument like they're a musician who aren't any of those things? No? Exactly, so if using those as examples is how far you have to go to try and "make your point" then you don't have a point to make to begin with. "Less credible and presumably delusional" is more fitting to what you posted up which had absolutely nothing to do with auto racing.

[Bomino]

Originally Posted by Doc

Do you see a lot of people walking around dressed as doctors, wearing astronaut suits, dressed as police officers, dressed as pilots, dressed as golfers, carrying a music instrument like they're a musician who aren't any of those things? No? Exactly, so if using those as examples is how far you have to go to try and "make your point" then you don't have a point to make to begin with. "Less credible and presumably delusional" is more fitting to what you posted up which had absolutely nothing to do with auto racing.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by Doc

Let me help you out so you'll "know for certain".

A "real" racer is someone who takes their car out on a track and races it or drives for a team that races cars.

A "status symbol" driver is someone who's never been on a track and isn't going to drive on a racetrack, but they want to appear as though they do by driving around in a car that appears to be a "real" race car.

A "real" racer understands the value and cost of racing and generally doesn't complain about the price.

A "status symbol" driver is VERY price conscious and just wants the appearance without the cost.

Do you see a lot of people walking around dressed as doctors, wearing astronaut suits, dressed as police officers, dressed as pilots, dressed as golfers, carrying a music instrument like they're a musician who aren't any of those things? No? Exactly, so if using those as examples is how far you have to go to try and "make your point" then you don't have a point to make to begin with. "Less credible and presumably delusional" is more fitting to what you posted up which had absolutely nothing to do with auto racing.

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by Bomino

Of course. legends are passed down.

I wasn't even a thought in 1969, but i'd like to say i am well aware of the Camaro's legendary heritage. I'll tell my Kids, and if they are enthusiasts as i am, they will tell there's and so on. that is how legends are passed down.

On top of that, GM intelligently uses the z/28's heritage to market the car. this will help others understand the history behind these cars as well.

Totally understandable! Just cause you tell your kids and I think it's great you do as I will tell mine, but that doesn't necessarily say that because you're passing it down means it'll continue being a legend. If chevy drops the camaro again and never resurfaces it? You're legend is dead. Back to my point: you're I'm sure old enough to know jimmy Hendrix right? Elvis right? They're legends. Ask your kids presuming they're teens or less and they may have heard of them, may have even listened to them, but they're more influenced with the ppl their own age and what they're growing up seeing or hearing which is not necessarily what we believe in. Crap music, computers in cars, no more concerts, just download this or download that. And muscle car status is just not one of them. Many kids today don't care a lick about history. Music, cars, ect. They find it boring because we lacked technology. We lived in the era where technology wasn't at the forefront just yet. Now if you don't have the latest and greatest to make yourself feel good? You're looked down upon as not getting with the program. Ppl today change everything except maybe their home like they do underwear. Correct me if I'm wrong! But I just don't see this car continuing to be that legendary in 20 yrs when they won't even have a camaro. It's sad but this seems more real than the hopes we have in our heads doesn't it?

Which is why GM brought it back. To capitalize on it. They're not stupid. The market was great for it. But that market is changing very quickly. It's make money now screw what they think approach. You capitalize on something when time is right and charge a premium because in today's society, if you market it well, ppl will line up on top of one another just to buy that wooden nickel they made out to be gold.

[silverds]

Originally Posted by Doc

Let me help you out so you'll "know for certain".

A "real" racer is someone who takes their car out on a track and races it or drives for a team that races cars.

A "status symbol" driver is someone who's never been on a track and isn't going to drive on a racetrack, but they want to appear as though they do by driving around in a car that appears to be a "real" race car.

A "real" racer understands the value and cost of racing and generally doesn't complain about the price.

A "status symbol" driver is VERY price conscious and just wants the appearance without the cost.

Do you see a lot of people walking around dressed as doctors, wearing astronaut suits, dressed as police officers, dressed as pilots, dressed as golfers, carrying a music instrument like they're a musician who aren't any of those things? No? Exactly, so if using those as examples is how far you have to go to try and "make your point" then you don't have a point to make to begin with. "Less credible and presumably delusional" is more fitting to what you posted up which had absolutely nothing to do with auto racing.

Thank you Doc for your highly charged explanation of what a "Real" Racer is. Now I understand your opinion.

Had you been a little less condescending I might have thought you made a reasonable point but now I'm certain you're just a "Real" Prick.

[Boris632]

Originally Posted by Wizard1183

Here's my question. All these die hard original Z/28 fans that grew knowing what a real Z was/is;when they've died off, you could call it baby boomers as well whatever.. You think this car will still carry its "legendary" status? If you think for one second that these cars will be collectible in the future that "may be" delusional. Notice how many products the baby boomers made hugely collectible and now their prices are beginning to fall like the 1959 les paul, base ball cards, comic books, muscle cars and yea they've dropped in price. Ppl who own them are holding onto to them in hopes the market corrects itself and continues into the stratosphere. That 1970 chevelle SS LS6 #s matching won't be worth the $120k in 20 yrs as it is today. Prices will fall as collectibles are fixated on the now and not tomorrow. Look at society and tell me ppl dont want shit yesterday and could careless about waiting 30-40yrs. Instant gratification rules the U.S. and it won't stop. If its a popular product today doesn't mean it'll be popular tomorrow. iPhone is a prime example. Legend? Maybe now but don't count on it holding water in a decade plus.

Pretty much.

buying a car for an investment is not sound advice. Buy it and drive it

[slomaro3.4]

Chevy "wants someone that would sell their abuelita to be behind the wheel.
Someone that drives their 10-second cars not in a straight line,
but to push it and make it through places no one else would take it.
Real drivers."

But around 65-70k sounds reasonable to me.

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by Doc

Let me help you out so you'll "know for certain".

A "real" racer is someone who takes their car out on a track and races it or drives for a team that races cars.

A "status symbol" driver is someone who's never been on a track and isn't going to drive on a racetrack, but they want to appear as though they do by driving around in a car that appears to be a "real" race car.

A "real" racer understands the value and cost of racing and generally doesn't complain about the price.

A "status symbol" driver is VERY price conscious and just wants the appearance without the cost.

Do you see a lot of people walking around dressed as doctors, wearing astronaut suits, dressed as police officers, dressed as pilots, dressed as golfers, carrying a music instrument like they're a musician who aren't any of those things? No? Exactly, so if using those as examples is how far you have to go to try and "make your point" then you don't have a point to make to begin with. "Less credible and presumably delusional" is more fitting to what you posted up which had absolutely nothing to do with auto racing.

I agree Doc but if you think the market for this type of car is for the "racer?" You're delusional. You see Doc, it's a VERY BIG sublimenal message (marketing scheme)being said here by GM. "This car is not for everyone." Which in turn makes more ppl want it. And not to mention more sold WILL BE status symbol cars.

Btw, is the Z/28 a race car or not since you're using the term racer? I ask because I was corrected for using such a term.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Doc

Let me help you out so you'll "know for certain".

A "real" racer is someone who takes their car out on a track and races it or drives for a team that races cars.

.

A real racer, someone who will tell you it doesn't matter if you win by an inch or mile winning is winning!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahahahahahahahahahhaah

I couldn't help myself with all the "real racer" talk

[Boris632]

Originally Posted by Wizard1183

Totally understandable! Just cause you tell your kids and I think it's great you do as I will tell mine, but that doesn't necessarily say that because you're passing it down means it'll continue being a legend. If chevy drops the camaro again and never resurfaces it? You're legend is dead. Back to my point: you're I'm sure old enough to know jimmy Hendrix right? Elvis right? They're legends. Ask your kids presuming they're teens or less and they may have heard of them, may have even listened to them, but they're more influenced with the ppl their own age and what they're growing up seeing or hearing which is not necessarily what we believe in. Crap music, computers in cars, no more concerts, just download this or download that. And muscle car status is just not one of them. Many kids today don't care a lick about history. Music, cars, ect. They find it boring because we lacked technology. We lived in the era where technology wasn't at the forefront just yet. Now if you don't have the latest and greatest to make yourself feel good? You're looked down upon as not getting with the program. Ppl today change everything except maybe their home like they do underwear. Correct me if I'm wrong! But I just don't see this car continuing to be that legendary in 20 yrs when they won't even have a camaro. It's sad but this seems more real than the hopes we have in our heads doesn't it?

Which is why GM brought it back. To capitalize on it. They're not stupid. The market was great for it. But that market is changing very quickly. It's make money now screw what they think approach. You capitalize on something when time is right and charge a premium because in today's society, if you market it well, ppl will line up on top of one another just to buy that wooden nickel they made out to be gold.

Kids today don't find cars boring - they can't afford them.

Go back to the 60s. My dad was in the army then worked at a machine shop. During that time he had a 63 Sport Fury, 64 Dart, later he had 68 Chevelle (and a few others i am forgetting but we get the idea). He made good money with a trade he picked up but was driving the "fast" cars of his day right out of high school.

Fast forward to the late 90s early 2000s - import racing became king because that is what the youth could afford.

Mustang v Camaro was for those older 30s+ who had great jobs. Those cars were 10k more than a Civic Si. The Civic also got 30mpg once gas started rising too.

Technology has changed the social scene but you cant go with friends toa movie on facebook.

Cars are still needed (or better public transport) and the youth still desire them. But keeping prices high on Camaros and mustangs (the fun cars) car builders are turning off younger drivers.

Imports died once big money entered. Once exotic engine builds started taking over the NIRAs/NHRA Imports/NOPIs went away. Youth couldnt afford it so they quit.

Toyota/Subaru went together to make their RWD sports car in an attempt to gain some of that youth back. And while i don't know if that works there is a 23 year old guy at my employment who has one and he plans on tracking it a lot this summer.

No one wants to race a V6 camaro. Those help sell units and keep prices low but anyone wanting to race doesn't want it.

Now you have GM with 3 track cars (but all 3 are over 30k) and out of the reach of younger buyers who would love to have one.

Yes there are legends to be passed down but what happens when your kids opts for the BRZ and then desires Toyotas or Subarus as hit hot rods?

I will tell you now the Cruze is not inspiring todays youth to go racing.

GM is pushing the Corvette to attract younger buyers but it seems that the Camaro is going after an older crowd. And for 2014 it looks like the Camaro will be king at GM and not the Corvette.

This is how I see things - I am thinking of a new C7 and I am in my early 30s.

I am curious to see what the plan is over at GM. Will the Camaro overtake the Corvette for good?