Shno's House of Z

[2cnd chance]

I was very happy and impressed to see the big 5Gen Z/28 outperform the GT350R. And happily surprised to see the Grand Sport beat out the GT3, McClaren, NSX, Huracan, Ferrari 458, Viper TA, GTR Nismo and virtually tie with the GT3RS which is 200K, has 500HP, rear wing and weighs 300 lbs less. Chevy's handling is now superior to the Europeans.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I read it today. GM rocked!!

That tends to happen

[Bhobbs]

I can't wait to see the videos.

[2cnd chance]

Thoughts?

Why aren't Americans buying Muscle Cars?

Right now, America's muscle cars are arguably the most impressive they have ever been—if you judge by performance numbers and dollars-to-smiles ratio. So why are less and less people buying the rear-wheel-drive tire-booters? In the beginning of 2016, muscle car sales numbers embarked on a dire downward slump, and the reasons aren't all too clear.

Looking at 2016's muscle car sales numbers in comparison to 2015's, from January to the end of August, Ford Mustang sales are down 5.53 percent, Dodge Challenger sales dropped 5.51 percent, and Chevy Camaro an abysmal 15.4 percent, GM Authority reports.

The Mustang sales slump is at least understandable. Last year, Ford introduced the a highly anticipated new generation, which the company believes many enthusiasts waited for. There was a global surge in sales, and an inevitable drop this year. “Mustang buyers know it’s coming and they wait for the new car,” Ford sales analyst Erich Merkle told TTAC about the sixth-generation Mustang. For the two other muscles, the reasons are less clear.

Chevy has been working on rolling out the new-gen Camaro, but it's not been smooth going. About 27,000 Camaros are sitting on dealership lots around America, with 40 percent being 2016 model year cars, Cars.com (via TTAC) reports. And who wants a 2016 model year when the 2017 is already here? In what was almost certainly an effort to incentivize muscle buyers, last week GM dropped the prices on the 2017 Camaro throughout the muscle car's lineup. An entry-level 1LT is now $25,905 instead of $26,305 and the price drop continue through the model range, excluding the top-range ZL1, GM Insider News reports.

As for the Challenger, in August, Fiat Chrysler reported a five percent rise in sales in August, but the number of cars sold compared to 2015 was still down. As TTAC notes, last month was the first time the Challenger outsold the Camaro since April.

So what is it that's driving consumers away from muscle cars? In August, GM Authority reported that GM claimed the drop in Camaro sales stemmed from the automaker moving away from fleet car sales as a marketing strategy for the muscle car, and because of a drop in buying incentives that were being offered. It's also worth nothing that the industry overall recorded a drop in sales in August, CNBC reports.

The thing is, no one truly needs a muscle car. The trio mentioned above are most commonly bought by consumers who are looking for a throwback car to the American icons of the 1960s and '70s. Beyond that, today's muscle cars are some of the most impressive cars that this country has ever produced. The last-generation Camaro 1LEs and Z28s were brutally-capable track cars, the current Mustang GT350 is mind-blowingly competent car both on track and any country backroad, and we're pretty sure the Dodge Challenger Hellcat has enough power to light the ground beneath it on fire.

Many of these cars are like absolutely nothing else in the industry in some very attractive ways. So why have Americans stepped back from them? Or have Americans even stepped back?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Thoughts?

Why aren't Americans buying Muscle Cars?

Right now, America's muscle cars are arguably the most impressive they have ever been—if you judge by performance numbers and dollars-to-smiles ratio. So why are less and less people buying the rear-wheel-drive tire-booters? In the beginning of 2016, muscle car sales numbers embarked on a dire downward slump, and the reasons aren't all too clear.

Looking at 2016's muscle car sales numbers in comparison to 2015's, from January to the end of August, Ford Mustang sales are down 5.53 percent, Dodge Challenger sales dropped 5.51 percent, and Chevy Camaro an abysmal 15.4 percent, GM Authority reports.

The Mustang sales slump is at least understandable. Last year, Ford introduced the a highly anticipated new generation, which the company believes many enthusiasts waited for. There was a global surge in sales, and an inevitable drop this year. “Mustang buyers know it’s coming and they wait for the new car,” Ford sales analyst Erich Merkle told TTAC about the sixth-generation Mustang. For the two other muscles, the reasons are less clear.

Chevy has been working on rolling out the new-gen Camaro, but it's not been smooth going. About 27,000 Camaros are sitting on dealership lots around America, with 40 percent being 2016 model year cars, Cars.com (via TTAC) reports. And who wants a 2016 model year when the 2017 is already here? In what was almost certainly an effort to incentivize muscle buyers, last week GM dropped the prices on the 2017 Camaro throughout the muscle car's lineup. An entry-level 1LT is now $25,905 instead of $26,305 and the price drop continue through the model range, excluding the top-range ZL1, GM Insider News reports.

As for the Challenger, in August, Fiat Chrysler reported a five percent rise in sales in August, but the number of cars sold compared to 2015 was still down. As TTAC notes, last month was the first time the Challenger outsold the Camaro since April.

So what is it that's driving consumers away from muscle cars? In August, GM Authority reported that GM claimed the drop in Camaro sales stemmed from the automaker moving away from fleet car sales as a marketing strategy for the muscle car, and because of a drop in buying incentives that were being offered. It's also worth nothing that the industry overall recorded a drop in sales in August, CNBC reports.

The thing is, no one truly needs a muscle car. The trio mentioned above are most commonly bought by consumers who are looking for a throwback car to the American icons of the 1960s and '70s. Beyond that, today's muscle cars are some of the most impressive cars that this country has ever produced. The last-generation Camaro 1LEs and Z28s were brutally-capable track cars, the current Mustang GT350 is mind-blowingly competent car both on track and any country backroad, and we're pretty sure the Dodge Challenger Hellcat has enough power to light the ground beneath it on fire.

Many of these cars are like absolutely nothing else in the industry in some very attractive ways. So why have Americans stepped back from them? Or have Americans even stepped back?

I'm afraid we are witnessing the downfall of the importance of the automobile in our culture and society. Hat I've read is that essentially the millennial don't really want to own a car. They are hugely supportive of ride sharing and big proponents of self driving or autonomous vehicles. And as for coupes? Dying just like station wagons in the day. Muscle and performance cars? I think that is holding its own. The issue is the number of customers buying 4 and 6 cylinder pony cars. That number is dropping.

I just don't think the future bodes well for cars as an expression of self.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'm afraid we are witnessing the downfall of the importance of the automobile in our culture and society. Hat I've read is that essentially the millennial don't really want to own a car. They are hugely supportive of ride sharing and big proponents of self driving or autonomous vehicles. And as for coupes? Dying just like station wagons in the day. Muscle and performance cars? I think that is holding its own. The issue is the number of customers buying 4 and 6 cylinder pony cars. That number is dropping.

I just don't think the future bodes well for cars as an expression of self.

Millennials like cars just fine. Currently, they're the biggest demographic in the US. Overtook baby boomers earlier this year.

The issue of millennials not buying cars was a combination of money and demand.

Turns out, when you're a 19 year old university student ... its basically impossible to afford a new car. If you do buy one, it probably isn't being bought with your own money. And there isn't much need for a car at that age either. But now, a sizable portion of millennials are in their mid 20s to early 30s. They're getting careers, not just jobs. With a bit of experience under their belt, they're getting better pay and more job security. And so they've finally started buying new cars. Because they're at a point in their life where they need a car to get for work, and that job allows them to commit to spending tens of thousands of dollars on it.

[2cnd chance]

Unfortunately they look at a car as a tool or an appliance. We grew up when cars were an expression of ones self like clothing or shoes. Manufacturers need to market cars as personal items like cell phones...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Millennials like cars just fine. Currently, they're the biggest demographic in the US. Overtook baby boomers earlier this year.

The issue of millennials not buying cars was a combination of money and demand.

Turns out, when you're a 19 year old university student ... its basically impossible to afford a new car. If you do buy one, it probably isn't being bought with your own money. And there isn't much need for a car at that age either. But now, a sizable portion of millennials are in their mid 20s to early 30s. They're getting careers, not just jobs. With a bit of experience under their belt, they're getting better pay and more job security. And so they've finally started buying new cars. Because they're at a point in their life where they need a car to get for work, and that job allows them to commit to spending tens of thousands of dollars on it.

I've read up on and actually had training on millennials. Funny that I've never had trading on how to manage Gen X or Gen Y. Absolutely there are some that love car sales just like we do. But on the whole they are more interested in ride sharing and self driving cars than we are. Even home ownership is not as strong of a desire. But as you point out they are huge in number and are driving the economy quite a bit.

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Unfortunately they look at a car as a tool or an appliance. We grew up when cars were an expression of ones self like clothing or shoes. Manufacturers need to market cars as personal items like cell phones...

Yep but there isn't much money to be made in that kind of car.

Also the interesting news is Apple dropping there car program and focusing on technologies with autonomous driving.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I've read up on and actually had training on millennials. Funny that I've never had trading on how to manage Gen X or Gen Y. Absolutely there are some that love car sales just like we do. But on the whole they are more interested in ride sharing and self driving cars than we are. Even home ownership is not as strong of a desire. But as you point out they are huge in number and are driving the economy quite a bit.



Yep but there isn't much money to be made in that kind of car.

Also the interesting news is Apple dropping there car program and focusing on technologies with autonomous driving.

I believe it should have lots of style and tech like a Smartphone.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I believe it should have lots of style and tech like a Smartphone.

Can you imagine a Millenial holding on to a phone for 4 or 5 years?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Can you imagine a Millenial holding on to a phone for 4 or 5 years?

Such millennials do exist ...

I think my phone is 5 years old. Might be 6, not sure. It still makes phone calls & lets me text. The camera works, or at least it did the last time I took a picture with it a couple years ago. I have little to no desire to do anything else with my phone. From my perspective, smartphones are smaller, less useful tablets & tablets are smaller, less useful laptops.

In addition to being a fully capable communication device, it also lasts about 3 days without a recharge. With use. That kinda sucks, used to be good for a week and a half. As an added bonus ... it doesn't have a touch screen! Little to no cleaning required, the screen is protected from scratches while in my pocket due to the clamshell (or 'flip') design, I can use it with 1 hand, and I can see what I'm doing as I do it since my hand isn't blocking the screen.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do when my little Nokia dies. I don't think anyone even makes phones like this anymore.

However ... this has given me an appreciation for why people buy the Cadillac XTS. Sometimes, people just want the comfortable & familiar ... even if it does seem to be a bit out dated.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Can you imagine a Millenial holding on to a phone for 4 or 5 years?

That's true. How can the manufacturers create excitement for their products amongst a group that views them as only a tool?

[Number 3]

Saw a 2017 Cruze hatchback today. Very nice looking. Would love to see the 2.0t under that hood.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Saw a 2017 Cruze hatchback today. Very nice looking. Would love to see the 2.0t under that hood.

Which one, the 250 hp unit from the Verano?

Not sure that would be enough for a proper Cruze SS though. I think 290 is about the price of entry for the 'hot hatch' segment these days, and to get much attention a new contender probably needs 300+.

Of course, it its just as a top-tier engine option (exclusive to the RS or LTZ ... err ... 'Premier' trims) 250 would work quite well.