question about twinturboing a LFX motor

[riozlander]

probably a stupid question. my brain wont let it go and maybe my eyes and brain are just not seeing something other have seen. and by that others I mean people who understand this new fandagled wizzbang electronics.

how hard is this car to turbo for the love of god its 2 pipes with a cats later on down the line

couldn't you just cut the pipe weld a turbo plate on slap a turbo on plumb the system get a ECU, program it run it on a dyno tune the car and away you go? (im sure there's injectors and fuel pumps and other things but for simplicity sake)

why all the systems that hide the pretty snail in the back tucked up under the bumper. not talking smack on the sts systems they do work and produce power and good results. maybe I am just looking at things way to simple. but it looks like there would be room for I don't know 60mm turbo or something like a k04?

probably looking at stuff way to simple.

EDIT: im sure im posting in the right place being im directing this at the exhaust for the vehicle if theres a limitation to why so many do a sts style turbo kit vs off the headers/cat pipe?

[willoverkill]

Turbos are never that simple.

We've developed the Overkill Vortech based supercharger system in part because of how simple we've been able to make the installation for the end user. There's no oil lines to run, no hot exhaust pipes to keep away from wiring and other obstructions, you don't need to do half the installation on your back under the car, infact you don't need to do any of the installation on your back under the car. It's also less expensive, as with a rear drive car the right way is to do a twin turbo system so you don't have a complex crossover pipe, and the turbos themselves aren't cheap if you buy the right ones.

The Vortech system we've created is top quality, will be reliable and durable, and continues to make easy 100 wheel horsepower gains on a base kit. It's the right way to go for the vast majority of people looking to boost their 3.6, in my opinion.

www.v6supercharger.com let me know if you have any questions on the kit

[riozlander]

Originally Posted by willoverkill

Turbos are never that simple.

We've developed the Overkill Vortech based supercharger system in part because of how simple we've been able to make the installation for the end user. There's no oil lines to run, no hot exhaust pipes to keep away from wiring and other obstructions, you don't need to do half the installation on your back under the car, infact you don't need to do any of the installation on your back under the car. It's also less expensive, as with a rear drive car the right way is to do a twin turbo system so you don't have a complex crossover pipe, and the turbos themselves aren't cheap if you buy the right ones.

The Vortech system we've created is top quality, will be reliable and durable, and continues to make easy 100 wheel horsepower gains on a base kit. It's the right way to go for the vast majority of people looking to boost their 3.6, in my opinion.

www.v6supercharger.com let me know if you have any questions on the kit

Thanks for the sales pitch but I will never pay that for a supercharger kit
I'd rather build my own vs pay for some ones work.
Built not bought.
I spent 2 years making my own designs for vehicles, motors suspension systems and more just to play a video game with custom cars
Witch can be found here
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491605

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by riozlander

probably a stupid question. my brain wont let it go and maybe my eyes and brain are just not seeing something other have seen. and by that others I mean people who understand this new fandagled wizzbang electronics.

how hard is this car to turbo for the love of god its 2 pipes with a cats later on down the line

couldn't you just cut the pipe weld a turbo plate on slap a turbo on plumb the system get a ECU, program it run it on a dyno tune the car and away you go? (im sure there's injectors and fuel pumps and other things but for simplicity sake)

why all the systems that hide the pretty snail in the back tucked up under the bumper. not talking smack on the sts systems they do work and produce power and good results. maybe I am just looking at things way to simple. but it looks like there would be room for I don't know 60mm turbo or something like a k04?

probably looking at stuff way to simple.

EDIT: im sure im posting in the right place being im directing this at the exhaust for the vehicle if theres a limitation to why so many do a sts style turbo kit vs off the headers/cat pipe?

Rio, man I just can't roll with you on this one...Your brain and eyes are out of contact with reality...No system turbo or supercharged is as simple as you're thinking...Years of research and development go into these products and that's the benefit...Sometimes paying for another persons work is the correct action to take, but there is no way you could develop either system that would be more than a pile of junk...

You slammed "willoverkill" who was simply showing you a simple system, as that is what you started this thread for...

You can't just piece together parts that make a system and have no rhyme or reason...

The link that you attached is concept cars for video games...Peeps believe me avoid the link...

Rio come back to reality man before you're sentenced to a straight jacket with a blow off valve inside the butt flap!!!

[riozlander]

Originally Posted by STUNNAH

Rio, man I just can't roll with you on this one...Your brain and eyes are out of contact with reality...No system turbo or supercharged is as simple as you're thinking...Years of research and development go into these products and that's the benefit...Sometimes paying for another persons work is the correct action to take, but there is no way you could develop either system that would be more than a pile of junk...

You slammed "willoverkill" who was simply showing you a simple system, as that is what you started this thread for...

You can't just piece together parts that make a system and have no rhyme or reason...

The link that you attached is concept cars for video games...Peeps believe me avoid the link...

Rio come back to reality man before you're sentenced to a straight jacket with a blow off valve inside the butt flap!!!

while I do look at things a simple way. and while there is way way way more to building a complete system then meets they eye I asked for a simple explanation
and got some dude pushing his product instead. one that has nothing to do with turbo charging or a explanation of why its not done more

and WillOverKill is a vastly respected individual for the time and effort he put in to his products and R&D including free of charge re tuning on his customers vehicles witch no company I have ever heard of would do that.
so to Will he has my respect there.

im sure his kit is wonderful but I have no interest to ever put a belt driven performance product that has its own limitations and flaws that it can not achieve.

supercharging systems are notorious for not producing power in a high RPM
range and this cars redline is supposedly 7500. I don't se a reason for a high revving motor to have a supercharger on it and don't understand the point of it.

in my eyes its waited money on power on a low end RPM range

if you want to get technical. since every thing for the exhaust is already routed down to one pipe. the exhaust pulses you are getting are much more even and would hit harder spinning your turbo up faster and easer depending on the size of the turbo inlet you could design a system that could spool up fast have fantastic power delivery and be relatively reliable and useful for DD track drag or what ever you would like to do.

but I don't personally enjoy a discussion on buy my product witch had nothing to do with the question you asked in the 1st place.

im asking is there a reason I don't see systems like this? is there a limitation to the idea of a one pipe either side of the LFX for the cat pipe that causes people to use a rear mount turbo system?

does this one pipe for the exhaust cause a ton of heat?
would it kill turbo's
it seams pretty simple of a idea.
cut
weld turbo t4 on put turbo on make pipe with cat run exhaust
buy a 2 in to one intercooler run to intake get a MAF that is made by jet or other companies that remove the limitations the stock maf has.

contact a pro like WILL for the vehicle to be tuned properly. get the working concept. drive the car find the limitations next year or 2 R&D.
take LFX block build it to the specs needed forged internals all that good stuff.
sorry for dreaming and wanting to tackle a project I just don't se many doing, or wanting to better the LFX motor performance.

I truly believe this motor has a lot of untapped potential

and also if you want to slam some one who built the motor blocks and measurements of the cars frames suspension systems to the specifications of the real cars just so he could have them in a video game out of love for wanting to build and dream with out limitations that's a little sad.

I have built and designed over 400+ vehicals 2500 parts wheels turbos motors headlights even down to programing working turn signals gear shifts working RPM gages. and even ran a very successful business in game building peoples dreams for the upload cost 3$. not even counting the hours I spent making them all in zmoddler and converting them over to working files and programs. 500$ of that cash went to the down payment of my Camaro

[DvKillar]

didn't realize that there isn't a turbo for the LFX at the header! I have seen the STS and thought it was a good idea, but it does seem inefficient to run it at the rear.

[ChibiBlackSheep]

From my understanding it is truthfully a small area to work in for a turbo.

We do have a member who had a custom twin-turbo build in the engine bay, check it out: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377642

Personally, your gripes against the supercharger idea are valid, however, they do help with low-end torque and power, which is something that the LFX suffers from. I feel like a remote mount supercharger is the best way to power an LFX. With the high-compression that the motor has stock, you can push good power with little boost, and revving it to 7k fills out the power curve in a very nice way.

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by riozlander

while I do look at things a simple way. and while there is way way way more to building a complete system then meets they eye I asked for a simple explanation
and got some dude pushing his product instead. one that has nothing to do with turbo charging or a explanation of why its not done more

in my eyes its waited money on power on a low end RPM range

if you want to get technical. since every thing for the exhaust is already routed down to one pipe. the exhaust pulses you are getting are much more even and would hit harder spinning your turbo up faster and easer depending on the size of the turbo inlet you could design a system that could spool up fast have fantastic power delivery and be relatively reliable and useful for DD track drag or what ever you would like to do.

but I don't personally enjoy a discussion on buy my product witch had nothing to do with the question you asked in the 1st place.

im asking is there a reason I don't see systems like this? is there a limitation to the idea of a one pipe either side of the LFX for the cat pipe that causes people to use a rear mount turbo system?

does this one pipe for the exhaust cause a ton of heat?
would it kill turbo's
it seams pretty simple of a idea.
cut
weld turbo t4 on put turbo on make pipe with cat run exhaust
buy a 2 in to one intercooler run to intake get a MAF that is made by jet or other companies that remove the limitations the stock maf has.

contact a pro like WILL for the vehicle to be tuned properly. get the working concept. drive the car find the limitations next year or 2 R&D.
take LFX block build it to the specs needed forged internals all that good stuff.
sorry for dreaming and wanting to tackle a project I just don't se many doing, or wanting to better the LFX motor performance.

I truly believe this motor has a lot of untapped potential

and also if you want to slam some one who built the motor blocks and measurements of the cars frames suspension systems to the specifications of the real cars just so he could have them in a video game out of love for wanting to build and dream with out limitations that's a little sad.

I have built and designed over 400+ vehicals 2500 parts wheels turbos motors headlights even down to programing working turn signals gear shifts working RPM gages. and even ran a very successful business in game building peoples dreams for the upload cost 3$. not even counting the hours I spent making them all in zmoddler and converting them over to working files and programs. 500$ of that cash went to the down payment of my Camaro

You're a dreamer and that's great, if you believe your concept can be brought to fruition then I believe that you should work toward that goal...There are many DIY's that take on their dream projects some with success and others with failure...Designing cars for video games does give you the artistic freedom to build and dream without limitations, but that does not equate to building real cars...If it's a passion of yours you should continue doing it especially if it pays well...Being that you see so much hidden potential in the LFX motor, maybe you could work out some sort of research contract with a performance shop that may have your same interest and collaborate on this project...So shame on me for my improper critique of your thought on the simplest method to turbo your car...

[riozlander]

Originally Posted by STUNNAH

You're a dreamer and that's great, if you believe your concept can be brought to fruition then I believe that you should work toward that goal...There are many DIY's that take on their dream projects some with success and others with failure...Designing cars for video games does give you the artistic freedom to build and dream without limitations, but that does not equate to building real cars...If it's a passion of yours you should continue doing it especially if it pays well...Being that you see so much hidden potential in the LFX motor, maybe you could work out some sort of research contract with a performance shop that may have your same interest and collaborate on this project...So shame on me for my improper critique of your thought on the simplest method to turbo your car...

my idea was to buy a damaged set of cat pipes to cut up and learn to weld on so not to damage the ones on the car that are good.
measure and just get a few universal intercooler piping kits. some tubes used on laundry dryers the bendy ones and use that to work out where the bends are needed and make a scratch kit to copy over to the proper one.

super rudimentary and crude but id rather have a idea of what could fit before just cutting and welding and ending up with some nasty pie cuts everywhere.

just seeing people cut and weld crap together with pie cuts making there own crude T4 mount, to mount the turbo to and seeing it work on youtube. it really just comes down to why not im bored.

i went to collage. wasted a lot lot of time in metal shop, jewlery, lost wax casting, auto 101 basic, suspension and alignment, electronics 101 basic auto class, smog,
had at one point many promising apprentice ships all set up in body repair, and quite a few in just metal fab shops. then well 2008 hit no one wants to spend money on that stuff and they were gone before i could finish school.
dropped out going great what now. all i know is working with my hands and black smithing

so i have a understanding of metal and welding but nothing past torch welding. and pounding metal out to make things like armor and bowls to eat out of.

the basic still stands. if you can make a turbo kit and just run the thing not even connected to the intake of the car and prove boost is possible and make the R&D to develop a crude template to copy over to a finished more buttoned up one and stream line it. yes maybe a company would take the project and collaborate if all they got to do is copy the templet and produce.

as for tuning a car. puff hell if i know id have better luck becoming the prince of bacon and starting a war over who just farted then doing complex math in figuring out air ratios compression god my head hurts now.
id rather pay a dude who understand vs me go durr i think if i push this button here things go faster fire burns pretty

the big factor is money.......sooo maybe many many years down the road things will move on this idea. 1st texas. pay off car rent a shop space buy tools.

[riozlander]

Originally Posted by ChibiBlackSheep

From my understanding it is truthfully a small area to work in for a turbo.

We do have a member who had a custom twin-turbo build in the engine bay, check it out: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377642

Personally, your gripes against the supercharger idea are valid, however, they do help with low-end torque and power, which is something that the LFX suffers from. I feel like a remote mount supercharger is the best way to power an LFX. With the high-compression that the motor has stock, you can push good power with little boost, and revving it to 7k fills out the power curve in a very nice way.

yes this is very true.
in truth if you wanted to make a end all be all system id be best to make it a super turbo......supercharge in to one big fat turbo. power everywhere

[riozlander]

Originally Posted by DvKillar

didn't realize that there isn't a turbo for the LFX at the header! I have seen the STS and thought it was a good idea, but it does seem inefficient to run it at the rear.

i know right !
actually the rear mounts are really good and produce good power
you would think the turbo lag would be horrendous. but that is not really a thing.

in actuality its a much easy idea to execute.
but a electric oil pump and separate oil container to pump threw the urbo and back is the only real problem

[STUNNAH]

The only major set back I see is what you mentioned "cost"...I would imagine that many of the large performance shops have passed on this concept (if they've even thought about it) due to development cost and demand...Unfortunately the reality for many of the V6 owners is to buy up to a V8, then if not satisfied buy up to a SCV8...Then the next question would be will there be a demand for a finished product that falls in a certain price range (affordable)...Have you contemplated the price tag of a finished product of this type???

[riozlander]

Originally Posted by STUNNAH

The only major set back I see is what you mentioned "cost"...I would imagine that many of the large performance shops have passed on this concept (if they've even thought about it) due to development cost and demand...Unfortunately the reality for many of the V6 owners is to buy up to a V8, then if not satisfied buy up to a SCV8...Then the next question would be will there be a demand for a finished product that falls in a certain price range (affordable)...Have you contemplated the price tag of a finished product of this type???

I figure 8-10 grand to just build being I would have to start from scratch no tools
Aside from jackstands, jack and TQ wrench.

Now if we want to talk streamline. A pipe bender, a stick welder would be the 2 most important tools. Having the ability to bend your own pipes would help alot.

If there was plans to go production with this as a kit it would be better to due it as a drop in engine replacement vs a stand alone kit.
Fully built LFX turbo motor one that can produce 500-800hp reliably.
Maybe do a deal like a discount if you send a old lfx engine or even just the block.

As a kit no probably best to go the NRE route and build it as a fully built engine offer.
Ahhh pipe dreams.

For now its just a concept for my own personal car/ hobby I'd like to do for my own personal enjoyment.

I'd like to look at making custom led tail lights and headlights and custom projector housing conversions on the stock ls housings. That has a better chance of becoming a thing in the market vs a turbo kit.

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by riozlander

For now its just a concept for my own personal car/ hobby I'd like to do for my own personal enjoyment.

I'd like to look at making custom led tail lights and headlights and custom projector housing conversions on the stock ls housings. That has a better chance of becoming a thing in the market vs a turbo kit.

What is NRE???