Road Course Spring Rates - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Lonewolf583 · 06-19-2018, 07:15 AM

The next mod for this guy is moving from the Z28 kit to Motion Control Coilovers for adjustability. Will be opting for the remote 2 ways I think.

What spring rates are you all running and with what bars? Since I love NVH I think I'll get a few sets and start playing in the 650-800 lb/in up front keeping to a 80% front split, so roughly 800-1000 lb/in out back. As a reminder the motion ratio on the rears is pretty poor when compared to the McStrut up front.

Will be fitting 315-335 width slicks on all 4, currently also eyeballing the aFe/Pfadt bar set.

olblue75 · 06-19-2018, 09:33 PM

What will you do with your Z Springs?

51LE50 · 06-19-2018, 11:10 PM

I'm pondering this too. High speed turn in is giving me some understeer. I've really been trying to pay attention and use a smooth turn in but it's still there and limiting. Tires could be an issue because as the day got hotter the pressures rose and the tires were slipping and I my entry speeds were coming down.
What are you looking to improve?
I've got the Z/28 suspension with full aero and running Cup 2's

Lonewolf583 · 06-20-2018, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblue75

What will you do with your Z Springs?

Sell the spring/damper and bar set on here as a kit!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51LE50

I'm pondering this too. High speed turn in is giving me some understeer. I've really been trying to pay attention and use a smooth turn in but it's still there and limiting. Tires could be an issue because as the day got hotter the pressures rose and the tires were slipping and I my entry speeds were coming down.
What are you looking to improve?
I've got the Z/28 suspension with full aero and running Cup 2's

I feel like she needs help in the damper department, it just seems a bit unsettled after turn in and in the midcorner. With the current Z28 springs its close but I want some adjustability. Compression seems well matched to the springs, but I feel like it could use some more rate and more bar all around with the grip levels the slicks provide. I've read the Z28 springs are in the 300 fr, 550 lb/in rear range.

Back in my 3rd gen fbody days I would have said you need a 500+ lb/in front wheel rate and the biggest possible front bar you can find. (For a car running in the 3-3200 lb range on full slicks and limited aero).

The interwebs would suggest our road race S197 Mustang friends (?) near to our weight keep their mcstruts sprung at around 6-800 up front and about a quarter to a third of the front rate for the lincoln log out back. Makes sense given the increased weight/Aero loads some of those guys are running.

I figured that'd be the place to start; start playing in the similar front wheel rate range and keep the rear spring rate right around the 1.25 x front range.

51LE50 · 06-20-2018, 07:33 PM

At turn-in and mid corner? We're talking high speed corners I'm guessing? You're description is close to mine; at turn in the tires were making a lot of noise and I was really trying to make a smooth transition. Mid corner they made a lot of noise too but I was mostly using throttle and keeping the wheel stable. The car felt unsettled which seemed a bit odd because I wasn't making any changes with the steering wheel but the tires were talking to me. 3rd gear corners the car feels really stable.
How is it under braking? It can get twitchy but it's a heavy car I'm using Raybestos ST45/43.
I'm going to the track Saturday and I want to focus more on tire pressure. I had 32 front and 35 rear and it was less 'fun' than at 30/35. Corner entry was about 3 mph slower in the afternoon and maybe it was the track heating up and getting greasy but what role were the tires in that? I dunno.
The tire carcass didn't feel overly hot but maybe it's just a bit too much pressure. Or the track.
That spring rate seems soft but a lot depends on the geometry for an effective spring rate.
I see the Fusion of Ideas Z/28 is now running Ohlins on his car (he runs in NASA TT).
You look at the JRI setup? Pricey stuff. For that kind of money I'd put a cage in my M3 and make it a track rat instead of the 'maro.

Lonewolf583 · 07-11-2018, 07:19 AM

Sorry fell off, here. Mainly hairpins and the slower speed stuff; I've got no issue with the behavior in high speed. Straightline braking performance is fine. Been running a mixture of stoptech and gloc pads. Trailbraking it's hard to say.

I did look at the JRI setup, and quite honestly DSE have already done the work and that development could be worth the cost for me. I bought the Z28 kit for that reason. GM spent the time, and it's a brilliant package as delivered- drawbacks being no adjust-ability. That all said, I've always been a fan of MCS and am probably willing to go that seemingly less traveled route.

VR Baron · 07-14-2018, 12:36 AM

I am not a road course guy, only autocross, but friends that autocross and roadcourse use 300/550 rates like I do, but set dse sways from full soft to stiff. They run jri or ridetechs and ridetechs to near stiff. Don’t know if that’s optimum but they are fast with that combo

06-19-2018, 07:15 AM	#1
Lonewolf583 Apex Predator Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6 Rally Yellow Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Seymour, IN Posts: 238	Road Course Spring Rates The next mod for this guy is moving from the Z28 kit to Motion Control Coilovers for adjustability. Will be opting for the remote 2 ways I think. What spring rates are you all running and with what bars? Since I love NVH I think I'll get a few sets and start playing in the 650-800 lb/in up front keeping to a 80% front split, so roughly 800-1000 lb/in out back. As a reminder the motion ratio on the rears is pretty poor when compared to the McStrut up front. Will be fitting 315-335 width slicks on all 4, currently also eyeballing the aFe/Pfadt bar set. __________________ 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3/TR6060, Paid Off \o/ Beating physics into submission since 1991.

06-19-2018, 09:33 PM	#2
olblue75 Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Clarksville Tennesse. Posts: 6,064	What will you do with your Z Springs? __________________ Orange Krush II 1LE Front sway bar, Splitter, shocks and struts, Z28 dual mode mufflers, Intake, UCA Bushings, and Toresen 3.91 Diff. 1 piece DSS Drive Shaft, ZL1/C7 Calipers, and 32mm JPSS Rear Bar. ASC race spec splitter and wicker. 6th Gen M017 Wheels. Stainless Works 1 7/8 LTs. DSE and PAFDT Suspension components.

07-11-2018, 07:19 AM	#6
Lonewolf583 Apex Predator Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6 Rally Yellow Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Seymour, IN Posts: 238	Sorry fell off, here. Mainly hairpins and the slower speed stuff; I've got no issue with the behavior in high speed. Straightline braking performance is fine. Been running a mixture of stoptech and gloc pads. Trailbraking it's hard to say. I did look at the JRI setup, and quite honestly DSE have already done the work and that development could be worth the cost for me. I bought the Z28 kit for that reason. GM spent the time, and it's a brilliant package as delivered- drawbacks being no adjust-ability. That all said, I've always been a fan of MCS and am probably willing to go that seemingly less traveled route. __________________ 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3/TR6060, Paid Off \o/ Beating physics into submission since 1991.

06-19-2018, 11:10 PM	#3
51LE50 Drives: 2015 1LE, 2SS, Bright Yellow Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Big Ditch, CA. The 805 Posts: 132	I'm pondering this too. High speed turn in is giving me some understeer. I've really been trying to pay attention and use a smooth turn in but it's still there and limiting. Tires could be an issue because as the day got hotter the pressures rose and the tires were slipping and I my entry speeds were coming down. What are you looking to improve? I've got the Z/28 suspension with full aero and running Cup 2's

06-20-2018, 07:33 PM	#5
51LE50 Drives: 2015 1LE, 2SS, Bright Yellow Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Big Ditch, CA. The 805 Posts: 132	At turn-in and mid corner? We're talking high speed corners I'm guessing? You're description is close to mine; at turn in the tires were making a lot of noise and I was really trying to make a smooth transition. Mid corner they made a lot of noise too but I was mostly using throttle and keeping the wheel stable. The car felt unsettled which seemed a bit odd because I wasn't making any changes with the steering wheel but the tires were talking to me. 3rd gear corners the car feels really stable. How is it under braking? It can get twitchy but it's a heavy car I'm using Raybestos ST45/43. I'm going to the track Saturday and I want to focus more on tire pressure. I had 32 front and 35 rear and it was less 'fun' than at 30/35. Corner entry was about 3 mph slower in the afternoon and maybe it was the track heating up and getting greasy but what role were the tires in that? I dunno. The tire carcass didn't feel overly hot but maybe it's just a bit too much pressure. Or the track. That spring rate seems soft but a lot depends on the geometry for an effective spring rate. I see the Fusion of Ideas Z/28 is now running Ohlins on his car (he runs in NASA TT). You look at the JRI setup? Pricey stuff. For that kind of money I'd put a cage in my M3 and make it a track rat instead of the 'maro.

07-14-2018, 12:36 AM	#7
VR Baron SoCal Camaro5 Race Team Drives: 2021 Shadow Grey Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SO CAL Posts: 14,288	I am not a road course guy, only autocross, but friends that autocross and roadcourse use 300/550 rates like I do, but set dse sways from full soft to stiff. They run jri or ridetechs and ridetechs to near stiff. Don’t know if that’s optimum but they are fast with that combo