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Old 07-11-2019, 02:26 PM   #1
Robmnrd
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Texas
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Getting cold feet on my impending build... any "been there, done that" input?

Hey guys, so to start I want to put a few things out there.

A. I am the type to try to research everything as much as I can (but without a real expertise, this can bite my butt at times because it raises worries and can be overwhelming...).
B. I would be having the work and tuning completed by Dedicated Motorsports here in Texas - a high caliber speed shop, that knows what they are doing.
C. I'm searching for some deals on parts here in the classifieds, but if nothing comes up I'll end up just buying through DMS as well, to save time/effort (and they have some pretty legit package-deals, too).

With those things said, I'm starting to worry about a few factors related to my build because I keep poring over threads, google searches, problem/failure posts, etc. and continue to delve deeper into the more science-y side of things (which I am not an expert at, obviously).
I was wondering if ya'll could give me some "been there, done that" reassurance, since I probably (hopefully) don't have anything to really worry about?

My build-to-be is going to consist of:

(already on the car: roto-fab CAI, kooks LTs w/hi-flow cats)
Griptec 2.38 upper pulley (and obviously hub+isolator replacement)
E85 flex setup (1050X injectors and auxiliary fuel pump, to ensure enough fuel)
HX upgrade (Ideally a Ron Davis unit if I can find one for an okay deal, but if not then I will use C&R since that is what DMS uses)

The intended use for the car is nearly daily driver (I put about 6000 miles on per year) with my not-fun car used on precipitation days. Even if it is 28 degrees outside in January, or 110 degrees in August... if there is no wetness or snow or ice, I'm driving the ZL1. I might take it to the strip once after the build to see what the trap speed is, but other than that my fun-driving is in the form of on-ramps and twisty roads when it is safe and no police to be seen. I don't like winding her out to 6200 for multiple gears, and I can't remember a time over the two years I've owned her that I've been over 116mph.

I keep running into more and more threads that kind of just confuse me due to contradicting information, lack of information posted (leading to more questions), seemingly hugely varying results, etc.

As such, the worries that keep popping up for me are:

-iat2 elevation, since I live in Texas
-how "happy" I will be with the final product's on-ramp performance
-will my twisty roads fun be reduced with the heavier heat exchanger up front since I am not planning any suspension changes?
-it's a daily driver (basically) so AC needs to work well on the really hot days..will the larger HX negatively affect it?
-is the pulley too aggressive for the intended use of the car? I baby her 98% of the time, and even when I'm having fun I don't push her limits..
-will doing these things reduce longevity of parts on the car to the point that I'll need to start worrying about my 6000 miles per year usage? (I'm talking about catastrophic failures here, not the increased maintenance one might expect from modifying their car...)


I really don't have true numeric goals for the car (XXXrwhp, XX.XX et), but I kind of want to match the feeling (straight line) of my buddy's C7 (it traps 129-131). Not trying to "beat" anything, but I figure if my ZL1 ends up capable of anything over 127mph my butt-dyno won't notice a real difference at the speeds I tend to drive the car at.


I know this post is pretty ramble-y, and all over the place. but I've committed to pulling the trigger on purchasing the parts this Sunday so I've got those butterflies and nerves popping up.

Anyway...I appreciate any thoughts ya'll have, and any input (good or bad) about my plans. It's easier to alter plans now than after buying or installing anything.
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #2
RyangAsh
 
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I have a very similar set up to what you are wanting. It's hot a hell here in Kansas City too. The car can be daily driven easily. Mine operates like stock, although I use the car for my enjoyment and it gets beat on hard.

You have a good plan, stick with it and move forward.

The ac will work fine, it should trap close to those speeds. You will need to upgrade your HX pump, I just did.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:22 PM   #3
Robmnrd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyangAsh View Post
I have a very similar set up to what you are wanting. It's hot a hell here in Kansas City too. The car can be daily driven easily. Mine operates like stock, although I use the car for my enjoyment and it gets beat on hard.

You have a good plan, stick with it and move forward.

The ac will work fine, it should trap close to those speeds. You will need to upgrade your HX pump, I just did.
Hey man, what kind of mileage do you put on yours? Do you feel like you would benefit from a breather or catch-can with the added boost? (another thing I worry about...lol) Any thoughts on adding a 100mm idler pulley to increase belt wrap on these smaller pulleys? I know the griptec units aren't supposed to need it, but again...I worry.

What unit did you go with for a HX pump?
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:05 PM   #4
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I think your plan is fine. I have the C&R unit- it works amazingly great in 90-100 degree Atlanta heat, and most times IAT2 is at IAT1 temp or a few degrees above (much better than stock... recovery is great after a pull as well). I wouldn't worry about the minimal extra weight up front unless you were tracking the thing. I also don't think you need another HX pump, personally. The stock one flows great, although I think the LT4 pump might flow better? A/C and radiator still work as they should for me- zero difference noticed after C&R install on those fronts.

I might consider doing a 9.55 lower instead of the 2.38 upper, OR, port the snout while it's off if you're going to stick to doing the upper.

I wouldn't worry about longevity at all with 6,000 miles a year. I'm doing almost triple that (granted, you have to do all the maintenance stuff- but at 6k a year, that's not much for you).

Everything you listed should be fine. But seriously, if the snout is going to be off for the pulley install, I'd seriously consider porting it.

Also- you'll pick up another 50+ at the wheels compared to where you are now, so you'll definitely feel it.

Overall, those mods are pretty tame compared to what a lot of folks do. You're still spinning the supercharger bearings relatively slowly, you shouldn't make a ridiculous amount of boost/heat, etc.

Git 'r dun and enjoy it! EDIT- I would definitely add a catch can and breather set up.
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:41 PM   #5
Robmnrd
 
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Originally Posted by RobZL1 View Post
I think your plan is fine. I have the C&R unit- it works amazingly great in 90-100 degree Atlanta heat, and most times IAT2 is at IAT1 temp or a few degrees above (much better than stock... recovery is great after a pull as well). I wouldn't worry about the minimal extra weight up front unless you were tracking the thing. I also don't think you need another HX pump, personally. The stock one flows great, although I think the LT4 pump might flow better? A/C and radiator still work as they should for me- zero difference noticed after C&R install on those fronts.

I might consider doing a 9.55 lower instead of the 2.38 upper, OR, port the snout while it's off if you're going to stick to doing the upper.

I wouldn't worry about longevity at all with 6,000 miles a year. I'm doing almost triple that (granted, you have to do all the maintenance stuff- but at 6k a year, that's not much for you).

Everything you listed should be fine. But seriously, if the snout is going to be off for the pulley install, I'd seriously consider porting it.

Also- you'll pick up another 50+ at the wheels compared to where you are now, so you'll definitely feel it.

Overall, those mods are pretty tame compared to what a lot of folks do. You're still spinning the supercharger bearings relatively slowly, you shouldn't make a ridiculous amount of boost/heat, etc.

Git 'r dun and enjoy it! EDIT- I would definitely add a catch can and breather set up.
Hey man! Thanks for the input. Honestly your thoughts on the HX pump reflect my own, based on research I've done and more specifically this thread:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/forum_li...esting-results

If an aftermarket company says stock is fine, and to upgrade will cost *a lot* of money, they probably aren't steering us wrong - they could develop their own and sell it for profit, afterall.

I had considered porting the snout because I am a "do it once" type of guy. Saves on labor, tuning, etc. over doing things multiple times.
The "do it once" mentality is part of why I finally ended up choosing upper pulley over lower - if my lower (and balancer) was coming off, it would kill me to be so close to the cam and not have something better than stock put in. And I'm not even talking something big, either. I mean something custom in between an LS9 cam and a BTR stage 1 - like a BTR stage 0.5! lol. I may not understand everything, but one thing I do understand is that an efficient engine with an efficient cam will make way more power with less boost than just throwing boost (heat) at an engine ad infinitum. But messing with cam and valvetrain is something I have whole-heartedly decided against doing with this car/build. I've done an N/A build in the past and for my goals with this specific car, internals are a can of worms I won't open lol.

I'll start looking into catch-can options then - I appreciate the input from you my man! Sounds like your situation and mentality regarding use of these cars and modifying them is pretty similar to my own.

Do you by chance have a Youtube channel? I made one a few weeks back literally just to post one video of my old '93 Z28 when I was in the process of selling it, and called the channel RobZL1 (my first name is Rob as well) since it fit my current situation. Hopefully I'm not stepping on your Youtube toes if you do have one lol.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:18 PM   #6
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Contact Anything Automotive Performance in Denton. They have built some nice Gen 5s and tons of LS cars.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:32 PM   #7
Robmnrd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Bound View Post
Contact Anything Automotive Performance in Denton. They have built some nice Gen 5s and tons of LS cars.
Oh man I feel like I'm so close to starting that choosing a different builder would throw me for a serious loop!

Any specific reason why you recommend them over DMS? Did they do your build? Do they dyno-tune or would I need to take it somewhere else for that?

I remember you from when I was asking about heat exchangers - I'm still on the hunt for a RD unit if I can find one at a reasonable price... So far nothing below 600 has popped up for me. Those that have them are holding on tightly lol.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Robmnrd View Post
Oh man I feel like I'm so close to starting that choosing a different builder would throw me for a serious loop!

Any specific reason why you recommend them over DMS? Did they do your build? Do they dyno-tune or would I need to take it somewhere else for that?

I remember you from when I was asking about heat exchangers - I'm still on the hunt for a RD unit if I can find one at a reasonable price... So far nothing below 600 has popped up for me. Those that have them are holding on tightly lol.
They are a one stop shop. ADM started my build 6 years ago and AAP took it to the finish line over the last several years. I don't have any experience with DMS. But the only shop I refer people to, in the DafW area, is AAP.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:10 AM   #9
RobZL1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmnrd View Post
I appreciate the input from you my man! Sounds like your situation and mentality regarding use of these cars and modifying them is pretty similar to my own.

Do you by chance have a Youtube channel? I made one a few weeks back literally just to post one video of my old '93 Z28 when I was in the process of selling it, and called the channel RobZL1 (my first name is Rob as well) since it fit my current situation. Hopefully I'm not stepping on your Youtube toes if you do have one lol.
No problem. Take my 2 cents for what it's worth. I spend way too much time on forums, youtube, and messing with my car.

My youtube channel is LT1ZF6 (from c4 corvette days). I've only posted a few videos, though. So no toe stepping perceived whatsoever, brother Rob!
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:22 PM   #10
RyangAsh
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
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I get 10 flat per gallon on E85, I have a griptech with no relo bracket and no slippage. Every car needs a catch can and yes a breather. I have both on mine. Kinda thought that went without saying. Varimax HX pump
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:27 PM   #11
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OP - I would stick with DMS. They are very reputable shop so you're in good hands. As for mods on a DD; it's a slippery slope especially if it's your only vehicle. I would err on the side of caution, regardless of the mods you chose.
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:35 PM   #12
hammdo
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I modded the crap out of mine but, I had a goal in mine and do it in stages. Now I’m fully forged 416, ported supercharger, full on road course mode ;o).

You have a good plan but, expect the un expected — it happens to all of us.

My build thread is long because I tried a lot of experiments to see what would and would not work — part of the fun...

I’ve used GPI, DSX, and ADM for my mods — when I didn’t do them myself.

Don’t have experience with DMS but I do know they moved from Austin and, Dave Steck (now DSX) was with them at one time...

Go with whom you are comfortable with...

-Don
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmnrd View Post
Oh man I feel like I'm so close to starting that choosing a different builder would throw me for a serious loop!

Any specific reason why you recommend them over DMS? Did they do your build? Do they dyno-tune or would I need to take it somewhere else for that?

I remember you from when I was asking about heat exchangers - I'm still on the hunt for a RD unit if I can find one at a reasonable price... So far nothing below 600 has popped up for me. Those that have them are holding on tightly lol.
DMs never did any work for me but I stopped in a few times when they were down the street from lake pflugerville. Were a good group of guys
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:23 PM   #14
Robmnrd
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1
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Hey guys! I appreciate all of your input over the last few days. Gonna move forward with the build.

Quick questions - is there anything *particularly* difficult about swapping the heat exchanger? Do I need to get the front end off the ground? Any specific tools needed other than basic handtools?

I'd like to do any of the work myself that I can, but when I moved down to Texas I left all but some basic handtools back in Michigan - small apartment w/o a garage, so I originally didn't plan to do any car-related things. I also didn't originally plan to buy a ZL1, but a year after being down here I bought one. So plans change lol.

I do have wrench-turning knowledge from my NA 93 Z28 build, but I have not dived into the ZL1 yet. And with limited tools/space I wanted to check before starting.

Thanks guys!

Edit:

The only things I believe I can do with the tools I have are the HX and catch can (which looks like a 20 minute job, more or less), and the rest of the work I will feel more comfortable having pros do.

Last edited by Robmnrd; 07-17-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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