MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[VICTORY RED 1SS]

Originally Posted by trm0002

Probably not until they paid 50 million dollars for a 10 year research project to tell them so...

You are confusing GM with any Government office.

[shadowed_Stranger]

Originally Posted by trm0002

Like I said- don't mean to pry, but thanks for your answer(s)- all who did. And Happy Birthday (belated).

What I was trying to illustrate is what I said earlier; very few people are getting into what has long been considered the "skilled trades". Not to belittle your field in any way; it too is a very necessary, integral part of today's society. Point being that our society is moving from "manual labor" do-ers to thinkers for lack of a better term. Who today goes to college to become a skilled factory worker or a plumber or a pipe-fitter or or or... Even the "trade" schools today are 99% IT. Nothing gets built by IT graduates; well, that might not be fair but you know what I mean. There is an increasing stigma about working in manufacturing; you know having a "dirty" job where you can't wear khakis and a button-down shirt to work. This country was built by BUILDING things not buying them built from somewhere overseas and shipping them in. That's what's happening and that is a major issue that if not corrected, WILL ultimately be our downfall. We were the most industrious nation on the planet and that's what made us the most powerful. Not in the sense of supreme over others but able to take care of ourselves without them.

-end rant-

All about supply and demand, IMO. If everyone is working white collar there will be a lack of people working blue coller work, and who knows, the white collars may be getting minimum wage while blue collars may get rich.

Not an expert in economics or anything, but that is just my view (the economy will sort itself out) until someone convinces me otherwise.

[shadowed_Stranger]

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

When I get home from work, I usually do one of two things: Study for the GMATs, which I hope to take this winter, or continue developing my personal code base. I intend on starting a business in the software industry (hence the GMATs), and I am developing a product currently that I intend on going public with in Q1 next year. I enjoy it, and it has the potential to be rather lucrative.

Mind if I ask what it does? If it's fun or interesting do you need someone to beta?

I also have a basic knowledge of quite a few programming languages if you could use another developer


I, too am trying to start my own business. Although not in the software industry, but in the repair-the-computers-for-the-people-that-look-at-too-much-porn industry. I did great while still in high school, making enough to buy back my first camaro and pay for two semesters of college in a matter of months. Since then I have gotten almost ZERO work, and so my dreams of a new camaro are on hold until I can get another job to pay for the advertising I plan on doing.

[greenrail]

Originally Posted by trm0002

I don't disagree with that statement; in fact I think most are ready to work for their money. Problem is what they consider "money" and what the employers consider "money". The pay expectations from one side to the other have a growing gap. Not to mention that the "kids" today aren't getting into the trades. That's a HUGE problem.



I couldn't agree with you more; good for her. I can empathize with her "plight"; my wife teaches 6th grade in an inner-city Buffalo school. That being said, it still pisses me off that she gets 10 weeks off in the summer...

Being a former teacher myself, I sort of (those being the key words here) understand. However, most Schools and School Districts require their teachers to do some continuing Education in their off months. So in many cases, they really don't have the summer off.

Those who do take the summer off and work at another job are usually forced to do so to make ends meet.

Either way, my Daughter is one of my Heros!

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by trm0002

Like I said- don't mean to pry, but thanks for your answer(s)- all who did. And Happy Birthday (belated).

What I was trying to illustrate is what I said earlier; very few people are getting into what has long been considered the "skilled trades". Not to belittle your field in any way; it too is a very necessary, integral part of today's society. Point being that our society is moving from "manual labor" do-ers to thinkers for lack of a better term. Who today goes to college to become a skilled factory worker or a plumber or a pipe-fitter or or or... Even the "trade" schools today are 99% IT. Nothing gets built by IT graduates; well, that might not be fair but you know what I mean. There is an increasing stigma about working in manufacturing; you know having a "dirty" job where you can't wear khakis and a button-down shirt to work. This country was built by BUILDING things not buying them built from somewhere overseas and shipping them in. That's what's happening and that is a major issue that if not corrected, WILL ultimately be our downfall. We were the most industrious nation on the planet and that's what made us the most powerful. Not in the sense of supreme over others but able to take care of ourselves without them.

-end rant-

Albeit an opinion, but I believe some people, especially the baby-boomer generation, have a false sense of the world we live in. I mean that to be as unoffensive as possible. The Industrial age is reducing it's presence in todays society. We have emerged in the Information age, where a good piece of software can easily sell for more than a McLaren F1 or a moderate sized house. And all that really is is a carefully designed string of 1's and 0's. Technology, information, knowlege, is the key to our nations; our worlds success these days. Things move so fast now, technology is constantly revamped, reinvented, and redefined. It is almost suprising that Industrial giants can exist like they did over the last 100 years (well, apparently they can't). This day in age people that "make" things, as you put it, need to be agile. They need to be adaptive. They need to roll with the punches and jump on new technology, because that's where this planet is heading.

I sincerely apologize if I come across as a bit confrontational or that annoying "recent grad" who thinks he knows everything, I have a bit of a personal vendetta agains some of these views. I was told once by my girlfriends stepfather that I was not contributing to the economic well being of Michigan by writing software. He said if I wasn't manufacturing an actual product, I was not doing my part. I found it ironic, as he is an orthodontist that works 3 days a week.

Originally Posted by shadowed_Stranger

Mind if I ask what it does? If it's fun or interesting do you need someone to beta?

I also have a basic knowledge of quite a few programming languages if you could use another developer


I, too am trying to start my own business. Although not in the software industry, but in the repair-the-computers-for-the-people-that-look-at-too-much-porn industry. I did great while still in high school, making enough to buy back my first camaro and pay for two semesters of college in a matter of months. Since then I have gotten almost ZERO work, and so my dreams of a new camaro are on hold until I can get another job to pay for the advertising I plan on doing.

I have all these crazy plans for where I want to point my business, from web interfaces to mobile apps for WM6 and Android, to thick client apps. My current project is actually aimed towards the professional sector, as it is not an app at all, but a library. In short, it is a collection of .NET controls written in C# to replace or extend the current windows functionality. It has neat things like guages, switches, dials, custom buttons and input boxes. Its something that companies who make custom apps can utilize to give them a great look and feel for their user interfaces. When I get the first version finished I'd be more than happy to send you a demo!

[speedbroker]

Why GM can't survive bankruptcy
Some companies use the courts to reorganize and come out stronger. That would be difficult for GM, experts say.


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- It worked for the airlines, but it might not work for General Motors. Saving the company through bankruptcy is probably not a viable option for the troubled automaker.

The reasons go deeper than the belief that consumers would shun a vehicle being sold by a bankrupt automaker. Some leading experts said that GM would find it exceedingly difficult to raise the billions in financing it would need to stay in business during a bankruptcy reorganization.

The bottom line: Unlike the experience of United, Delta and Northwest airlines, a GM (GM, Fortune 500) bankruptcy could spell a quick end to the company's operations.

The question of whether GM can survive is crucial to the growing debate in Washington over whether the government should put up $25 billion or more to bail out automakers.

GM on Friday, while saying it was working to avoid a catastrophic bankruptcy, disclosed that it has almost run out of cash and said it needs federal assistance before the end of the year. President Bush, who will be in office until Jan. 20, remains wary of a bailout.

Bailout advocates, including President-elect Barack Obama and the Democratic leaders of the House and Senate, argue that the collapse of a major automaker would be too great a shock for an already struggling U.S. economy to absorb. It is estimated that a GM bankruptcy alone would cascade widely throughout the economy and cost as many as 2.5 million jobs.

Some critics of a bailout have suggested that the automakers would be better off filing for bankruptcy to to get out of obligations and contracts they can't afford and become competitive again without putting taxpayer dollars at risk.

Cash troubles
There is precedent for bankruptcy turnarounds. But those companies, filing under Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code, were able to secure what is known as debtor-in-possession, or DIP, financing.

Lenders make such loans in part because bankruptcy law allow them to go to the front of the line of the company's creditors if the company is not able to stay in business. In turn, the bankrupt company uses the cash to make changes and return to profitability.

Without DIP financing, liquidation -- usually under bankruptcy Chapter 7 -- may be the only option left.

Experts in the field and even GM itself say that DIP financing might not be available for GM.

"The state of the capital markets does make the prospects for DIP financing a much bigger question mark than would have been the case in other times," said Bob Schulz, Standard & Poor's senior auto credit analyst. "To reorganize does require financing."

Others question if GM would be shut out of DIP financing entirely. But even they say it would come at a steep price.

"I would say it is likely that they would find some financing," said bankruptcy attorney Ronald Silverman, a member of the American Bankruptcy Institute who recently spoke on the outlook for the auto sector. "It may not be inexpensive financing. But there are investors with cash interested in investment opportunities, and DIP loans are among the most attractive investment opportunities."

Still, the fear that car buyers won't want to buy cars from a bankrupt automaker may preclude GM from financing. For example, a recent survey of car buyers found that as many as 80% wouldn't even consider buying from a bankrupt automaker.

"You don't qualify for DIP if you don't have certainty about your revenue base," said Tony Cervone, a GM vice president.

Some question whether sales in fact would drop following a bankruptcy. University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici believes automakers could assure buyers by offering warranties backed by third parties, the way bankrupt electronics retailer Circuit City is now doing.

But Mike Jackson, CEO of Autonation (AN, Fortune 500), the nation's largest chain of dealerships, said bankrupt automakers would have a hard time selling cars.

"I deal with consumers every day. They have their investor's hat on when they spend $30,000. They're making a calculation about resale value," Jackson said. "They have so many choices -- why take a gamble on a manufacturer who is in bankruptcy."

Change in the market
Most experts, even some of those who believe that GM would ultimately be able to find the financing it needs, agree that there is far less DIP financing available today because of the credit crisis.

"A year ago we had 30 DIP lenders; you could count on about 20 of them showing up in any big case. It was a buyer's market from a debtor's perspective," said Jack Williams, a bankruptcy law professor at Georgia State University and an ABI resident scholar. "Now we have three or four, maybe five, and they're all very careful."

Still, there are some who believe that GM should use bankruptcy to reorganize. And to them, a lack of financing to reorganize is just another argument against a federal bailout.

"If they can't get financing, then they should just sell the assets and go out of business," said Morici. "That means that bankruptcy reorganization is impractical; it means they can't be viable under any circumstance."

[speedbroker]

My question is since they are saying the end of the year how does this effect everyone looking for their Camaros?

Do you still buy if available?

Do you wait to make sure they can stick around and service our vehicles?

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

Saw some posting on CNN saying that 80% of Amercians would not buy from a car company in bankruptcy. Would you still get your Camaro if they filed?

I would. And no I did not do a poll because we have way to many of those around here.

[Fandango]

NOTE THE SOURCE: *******
Did you know that because CNN is one of the highest priced cable channels to carry and people are getting more news online and from local channels and free sites anyway, and since CNN is so LEFTanyway, lately they are actually considering donwsizing their network. People are dropping them like crazy and the may be bought out or even go Bankrupt themselves??

Apples anyone?

I'm in an MBA program with some well informed students and Profs that brought this up a few weeks back. One-sided news networks are going under and less diverse media groups, such as CNN are the next to bite it. See, in order to compensate for lower incomes, cable companies are dropping higher priced networks, such as CNN, MTV, to make cable a tad bit cheaper. Lately CNN has been on the woes-watch to try and boost ratings. They are in a fix too. Look it up. A Cable co is Califonia is dropping MTV and CNN.

[Moose]

Absolutely.

Without hesitation.

Y.E.S.

[Txturbo]

yes

[csjrishere]

Yes

[Evotion]

Yes

[bigralph]

Si