[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Theres always one somewhere every time.

Ford announces 5.0 and new 6sp for 2011 - no way it stays close to 2010s msrp - does

Ford announces 5.8, aluminum driveshaft, 662/631/200mph - it can’t be priced within reach of the zl1, it’ll start in the mid 60s - 54,9xx

Ford announces a GT350 R that can run with or beat a Z/28 - not for anywhere near the price of the Z/28 - Less

Rumors of a GT500 - it’ll start in the 70s, probably Demon priced - We’ll see.

Manual model without having all the handling options... 60,000

Because unlike in past times, this car will be priced ridiculously. Every vehicle that has seen carbon ceramic brakes has been north of 70k easy.

The fact is, there is no way it will cost cheaper than the outgoing GT350R....

And that's not fanboy anything....that's reality. Expect Demon style markups and I wouldn't be the slightest surprised if you see close to 100k pricing...

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I imagine it all comes down to cost efficiency. If the A10 is cheaper to use and provides gains, they'll use it. If the A8 is cheaper to use and in this application shows minimal gains, they may hold off.

I doubt they'll keep the A8, honestly. I'm just wondering how much better (because it will be) the A10 is vs the A8.

As for the V4 "issue" isn't that what the new skip-fire system is supposed to alleviate?

I expect the A10 will get moved to the Camaro soon, mainly because it is the best transmission they have for automatics. Additionally, aside from Cadillac, the only other vehicles that use the A8 are trucks.

All of those vehicles will benefit more from the A10 than the A8 anyways.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

15,16,17,18, and my guess GT500 would be a 2019.

'15 saw the intro of the GT350/GT350R. The camaro had the Z28, 'nuff said.

'16 continued with the GT350's, nothing from camaro that competed directly let alone beat it

'17 brought the ZL1. The ZL1 and GT350R were compared. Some preferred the R, even though the ZL1 showed it was a performer. Mostly a wash, I would have a hard time picking from the two.

'18 brought the ZL1 1LE... Ford doesn't have anything for that, I agree. Good job GM.

1 model year of needing a better model. Ford did fine. But stating 4 MY's with nothing competitive is beyond an exaggeration.

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[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

'15 saw the intro of the GT350/GT350R. The camaro had the Z28, 'nuff said.

'16 continued with the GT350's, nothing from camaro that competed directly let alone beat it

'17 brought the ZL1. The ZL1 and GT350R were compared. Some preferred the R, even though the ZL1 showed it was a performer. Mostly a wash, I would have a hard time picking from the two.

'18 brought the ZL1 1LE... Ford doesn't have anything for that, I agree. Good job GM.

1 model year of needing a better model. Ford did fine. But stating 4 MY's with nothing competitive is beyond an exaggeration.

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OK I got one for you: 650 HP Convertible.

[islander033]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Because unlike in past times, this car will be priced ridiculously. Every vehicle that has seen carbon ceramic brakes has been north of 70k easy.....

It will prolly be announced at Detroit in Jan. Hopefully we all find out then.

And I read carbon ceramic brake pads in your linky.....

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I imagine it all comes down to cost efficiency. If the A10 is cheaper to use and provides gains, they'll use it. If the A8 is cheaper to use and in this application shows minimal gains, they may hold off.

I doubt they'll keep the A8, honestly. I'm just wondering how much better (because it will be) the A10 is vs the A8.

As for the V4 "issue" isn't that what the new skip-fire system is supposed to alleviate?

But why have two transmissions. The 10 speed is the great co developed with ford unit. Why did GM bother when they already had the 8 speed? I would think because its better in all aspects.

I have not read or heard of a new skip fire system! what is that all about?

[jmackisback]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

'15 saw the intro of the GT350/GT350R. The camaro had the Z28, 'nuff said.

'16 continued with the GT350's, nothing from camaro that competed directly let alone beat it

'17 brought the ZL1. The ZL1 and GT350R were compared. Some preferred the R, even though the ZL1 showed it was a performer. Mostly a wash, I would have a hard time picking from the two.

'18 brought the ZL1 1LE... Ford doesn't have anything for that, I agree. Good job GM.

1 model year of needing a better model. Ford did fine. But stating 4 MY's with nothing competitive is beyond an exaggeration.

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2016 absolutely had a competitor to the GT350. The SS 1LE.

And you thinking the ZL1 and GT350R are a wash in 2017 is laughable at best.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by jmackisback

2016 absolutely had a competitor to the GT350. The SS 1LE.

And you thinking the ZL1 and GT350R are a wash in 2017 is laughable at best.

Camaro had everything covered and beat that Mustang had to offer 15, 16 and 17. The one exception is the GT350R which competed with itself, there was no naturally aspirated 500 horse Camaro 1LE, even though the SS1LE took care of the GT350. The ZL1 also competed with itself as there was no charged Mustang for it to compete with. Now that the 19 Gt500 is coming that is what the ZL1 is going to face. Have to keep the NA and the charged cars competing with each other and separated.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by jmackisback

2016 absolutely had a competitor to the GT350. The SS 1LE.

There was no MY16 SS 1LE. ZL1 and SS 1LE were both MY17 cars. There was a MY15 GT350 and R however.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Camaro had everything covered and beat that Mustang had to offer 15, 16 and 17. The one exception is the GT350R which competed with itself, there was no naturally aspirated 500 horse Camaro 1LE, even though the SS1LE took care of the GT350. The ZL1 also competed with itself as there was no charged Mustang for it to compete with. Now that the 19 Gt500 is coming that is what the ZL1 is going to face. Have to keep the NA and the charged cars competing with each other and separated.

I think pricepoint determines this more than the engine type.

It's always apples to oranges when comparing one automaker to another and all you can make are fairly rough comparisons.

There doesn't need to be a NA answer by either one, nor does there need to be a turbo or supercharged one. The newest Z06 was a supercharged beast and the outgoing was NA. Does it matter? I'd say no. The pricepoint dictates where it's supposed to compete, but someone will always come along eventually and figure out how to do what you did better, cheaper, faster, etc.

The point of the GT350 was something that costs more than the SS that offers higher performance, which it did briefly. Then, for a few thousand more, the ZL1 showed up, but it did cost a few thousand more, so hard to say it was "competing" with this, but the GT350R? Easy to make that comparison based on price. Manufacturers don't throw a NA, turbo or supercharged car at you (such as in a car publication test) just because your company made your car a certain way. As materials and manufacturing processes have improved, FI has become much more commonplace at the OEM level.

"Beating chevy" or offering products to compete with the SS, ATS-V, CTS-V, Corvette and various camaro trims just hasn't been a high priority for Ford for years. They have had some decent developments and cars, don't get me wrong, but the current mustang is really where it needed to be for the last generation to compete with the C5 camaros, but it's not as high of a priority for Ford to dump money into this. As was stated earlier, they simply choose not to compete at the high end 4-door market, the balls-out sports-car (corvette) market, and so on. It's far more compromised at Ford because it's not the priority.

The priority is most likely selling $65K F-150s. People eat those up like candy and are addicted to "luxury" trucks like crack. People have no issues plunking down this kind of cash or taking out loans to get these. People at work would make comments on how I must have a bunch of money to buy my 50K BMW, yet they are all packing one or MORE of these 4-door man-trucks that cost far more. This is where Chevy hopefully captures the "hearts and minds" of enthusiasts, but where Ford probably concentrates on what makes them more money.

[jmackisback]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

There was no MY16 SS 1LE. ZL1 and SS 1LE were both MY17 cars. There was a MY15 GT350 and R however.

I thought people got their hands on them in fall of 2016? Just not technically 2016 models, so you're right I suppose.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

'15 saw the intro of the GT350/GT350R. The camaro had the Z28, 'nuff said.

'16 continued with the GT350's, nothing from camaro that competed directly let alone beat it

'17 brought the ZL1. The ZL1 and GT350R were compared. Some preferred the R, even though the ZL1 showed it was a performer. Mostly a wash, I would have a hard time picking from the two.

'18 brought the ZL1 1LE... Ford doesn't have anything for that, I agree. Good job GM.

1 model year of needing a better model. Ford did fine. But stating 4 MY's with nothing competitive is beyond an exaggeration.

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BlaqWhole commented that the Mustang hasn't been competitive because other than 1,468 GT350R built over three model years, it been a disappointment. Of which only 37 were built late in 2015 to compete against the already discontinued Z/28

2016 SS
- Fully track capable without additional options. I.e. has 3-radiators, transmission and differential coolers, Brembo brakes front/rear with cooling ducts.
- A8 average 1/4 ET of 12.1 sec

2016 SS-1LE equal to GT350 TP for $10,000 less
2016 V6-1LE 3:04.0 lighting lap (2015 GT PP - 3:05.2)

2017 ZL1
- 7:29.60 Nurburgring
- 1/4 mile 11.5 sec @ 125 mph

2018 ZL1-1LE
- 7:16.04 Nurburgring
- 1/4 mile 11.7 sec @ 123 mph

Car and Driver 10Best Cars three consecutive years 2016/2017/2018

Chevrolet Camaro V-6 / SS / ZL1 Coupes
...Camaro will demolish your preconceptions, one corner at a time.

...About that chassis. It’s one of the best in the world, with the kind of preternaturally intuitive steering, faultless brakes, and overall balance you’d expect from a Porsche.

...The ZL1 is a supercar that just happens to look like a Camaro.

A reputation is a hard thing to live down. Perception often lags reality, and the reality is this: Camaros are among the most sophisticated driver’s cars in the world. And three consecutive years on the 10Best Cars list proves that this Chevy isn’t just great at attacking a corner, it has also turned one.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-coupes-page-4

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by hotlap

BlaqWhole commented that the Mustang hasn't been competitive because other than 1,468 GT350R built over three model years, it been a disappointment. Of which only 37 were built late in 2015 to compete against the already discontinued Z/28

2016 SS
- Fully track capable without additional options. I.e. has 3-radiators, transmission and differential coolers, Brembo brakes front/rear with cooling ducts.
- A8 average 1/4 ET of 12.1 sec

2016 SS-1LE equal to GT350 TP for $10,000 less
2016 V6-1LE 3:04.0 lighting lap (2015 GT PP - 3:05.2)

2017 ZL1
- 7:29.60 Nurburgring
- 1/4 mile 11.5 sec @ 125 mph

2018 ZL1-1LE
- 7:16.04 Nurburgring
- 1/4 mile 11.7 sec @ 123 mph

Car and Driver 10Best Cars three consecutive years 2016/2017/2018

Please provide the link to your source where the 1LE went head to head with the GT350TP and matched it. I've been waiting for that review to show up.

Even if it did match it, Ford still has a competitive model, It's just a more premium product. But it is available.

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[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Please provide the link to your source where the 1LE went head to head with the GT350TP and matched it. I've been waiting for that review to show up.

Even if it did match it, Ford still has a competitive model, It's just a more premium product. But it is available.

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You won’t see it. Anytime the gt350 is tested, it’s the R even tho so few are made. So the only way to see how they would do is from similar track times. The most compelling times imho is there fiqure 8 times and braking and lat g numbers. And the 1le best the gt350 and comes very close to R numbers.