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Old 05-30-2019, 09:23 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS View Post
Won't be long before every car sold is an electric, self driving crossover that can only be distinguished by a brand logo on the front or back. They will truly be "auto"mobilies and it's going to suck.
Self Driving is exceedingly progressing, Some key cities are already testing it out.

I believe in about 50 years from now the steering wheel will no longer be seen in a car.

Hell to take it even further, I believe we wont even own cars anymore but have free transport buses/cars to take us around.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:28 AM   #44
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Lol, it’s a global economy now. Is it bad if I buy a Tundra that was built here in Texas? How about a Hyundai built in Alabama? Or maybe a BMW built in South Carolina?
or vice versa, that nearly all the components of a "domestic car" are manufactured out of the country and only assembled in the US? Is it really made in the USA or just Assembled in the USA? Does it even matter when the companies aren't doing it out of some patriotic duty or that they care about the people. If they could have the market pull that being "domestic" gives them but do everything much cheaper in some other country, they would do it in a heartbeat and all the shareholders would reward them for it.
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:39 AM   #45
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Agree with both! A merger probably wouldn't cut mustard with the FTC because it would create a Monopoly of sorts and this would reduce competition. On the other hand there remains Fiat/Chrysler with the Challenger to compete with a Mustaro. Lol!
They'll allow it. Look at aerospace, there used to be Lockheed, Boeing, Douglas, Grumman, Martin, McDonnell, Northrop, North American, Sikorsky, etc. Now they've mostly all merged until there's really just Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman. Not a monopoly per se, but if you're going to fly American-made commercial, you're flying on a Boeing or Boeing-owned bird ever since Boeing was allowed to absorb McDonnell-Douglas. And now those that remain are surviving regulatory reviews to grow increasingly close to foreign manufacturers - Embraer, Leonardo, even Sukhoi.

For years before SpaceX came along, regulators didn't care that Boeing & Lockheed's joint venture United Launch Alliance monopolized American launch vehicles. That the price to launch a satellite was allowed to grow sky high (pardon the pun) didn't faze anyone until Elon Musk came along to capitalize on it.

Point is, I wouldn't trust the government to stand in the way of this when executives put on their sad puppy dog eyes and claim they can't survive (read: maintain market share) without merging.

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Considering the government tried to convince GM to take Chrysler in the bankruptcy, I guess anything is possible.

However there is no advantage until you eliminate redundancies. This merged company wouldn’t need a Camaro and a Mustang. It sure wouldn’t want to invest 3 Billion for a new GM pickup and then another 3 Billion for a Ford.

The resultant company would simply start slashing models to reduce costs.

Now 30 years from now when an EV powertrain eliminate one major differentiator and people are renting/sharing transportation, who knows.
Not being a truck guy, I'd give up Silverado in favor of F-150 if it meant keeping Camaro over Mustang! It's hard to theorize on what would be kept, though - it might be economical enough to have a single pony car platform (by all accounts it seems like GM's is better, and it's shared with Cadillac) and engine lineup, but throw "Ford" and "Chevy" sheet metal over all that like, Camaro and Firebird once did.

Needless to say, though, even naming the surviving vehicles in the truck and pony car segments will be hard, as both segments are among the most brand-loyal out there, and many won't want a rebodied Chevy called a Ford or vice versa, and creating a whole new name to avoid that headache takes away the market recognition that both companies' products have today.

Last edited by Lazerbrainz2k3; 05-30-2019 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:05 PM   #46
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Chevord Mustaro?

Fordrolet Camstang?
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:25 PM   #47
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What do you think? Is this a possibility and if so what are the ramifications?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...AC1TSR?ocid=sf
I see nothing in that article that actually says they're considering merging. Its just one guy giving his opinion with a click bait headline title thrown on top.
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Cool concept, but wouldn't this be considered a monopoly by the government? I couldn't foresee this going through.
How would it be a monopoly? The general minimum before a company is considered having a monopoly is 50% market share. GM is at about 17% market share & Ford is 14%. If they combined & didn't drop a single model or lose a single sale they'd barely have 30%.

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Considering the government tried to convince GM to take Chrysler in the bankruptcy, I guess anything is possible.

However there is no advantage until you eliminate redundancies. This merged company wouldn’t need a Camaro and a Mustang. It sure wouldn’t want to invest 3 Billion for a new GM pickup and then another 3 Billion for a Ford.

The resultant company would simply start slashing models to reduce costs.

Now 30 years from now when an EV powertrain eliminate one major differentiator and people are renting/sharing transportation, who knows.
I thought that generally speaking, the smart idea is to merge with a rival who has strengths that compliment your own weaknesses & vice versa. That way you end up with a bigger company that is much stronger than its two constituents. Taking two that are virtual mirrors of each other would only result in the elminination of redundant product lines, like you're saying. In that case, you may as well just take the rival over and shutter the operation since it adds nothing of any real value.
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Clickbait
Yup
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Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 05-31-2019, 12:26 PM   #48
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GM killed Oldsmobile and Pontiac. Buick is their key to China.
Actually GM was directed by the idiots in the Obama administration to kill Olds, Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn, and Buick as part of the bailout. Only when GM showed the government morons sales of the Buick brand in China was Buick allowed to continue.

Was a shame too because Pontiac had just introduced a bunch of new models. To this day, the Pontiac Grand Am IMO was one of the most comfortable sporty 4 door cars to drive. And the Hummer HX GM showed off at an auto show looked awesome.

And one could only imagine a Pontiac Trans Am on the Camaro platform..

Damn shame..
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:15 PM   #49
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Actually GM was directed by the idiots in the Obama administration to kill Olds, Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn, and Buick as part of the bailout. Only when GM showed the government morons sales of the Buick brand in China was Buick allowed to continue.

Was a shame too because Pontiac had just introduced a bunch of new models. To this day, the Pontiac Grand Am IMO was one of the most comfortable sporty 4 door cars to drive. And the Hummer HX GM showed off at an auto show looked awesome.

And one could only imagine a Pontiac Trans Am on the Camaro platform..

Damn shame..
I guess the alternative was to no longer have GM, those damn idiots!!!
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:31 PM   #50
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Actually GM was directed by the idiots in the Obama administration to kill Olds, Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn, and Buick as part of the bailout. Only when GM showed the government morons sales of the Buick brand in China was Buick allowed to continue.

Was a shame too because Pontiac had just introduced a bunch of new models. To this day, the Pontiac Grand Am IMO was one of the most comfortable sporty 4 door cars to drive. And the Hummer HX GM showed off at an auto show looked awesome.

And one could only imagine a Pontiac Trans Am on the Camaro platform..

Damn shame..
Olds died 2005, years before the collapse and bankruptcy. GMC also had to fight for its existence, and presumably so did Chevy and Cadillac. Thats what tends to happen when an entire business gets evaluated for restructuring. Every component is looked at & needs to be justified or else it gets axed. If you're just going to keep all the dead weight, you're not actually restructuring things.

Pontiac, as a whole, was pretty pointless. There wasn't anything that it did that couldn't be accomplished by a Chevy. Everything was practical twin to a Chevy, except the G8 and Solstice. One was literally a rebadged Holden and the other (I'm 99% sure) was inspired by the C1 Corvette. It wouldn't have been hard to have made both a Chevy had Pontiac not existed.

GMC survived because a) appreciably better profit margins than equivalent Chevy's and b) relatively few cross-shoppers between the two brands. GM stood to lose a ton of money by getting rid of GMC. Neither of those things were true for Pontiac. Saturn probably had a better business case than Pontiac did as I'm reasonably sure (~80%) that those buyers were largely either loyal to the Saturn brand or conquests from the likes of Toyota and Honda. Few considered buying a Chevrolet or Buick.

A new Firebird would only have ever existed in the imagination as there were no plans to build one off the Zeta platform. It was determined that it would have cannibalized too many of its sales from Camaro to be worth developing. Selling 80k Camaros per year is better than selling 55k Camaros + 35k Firebirds because you don't have to pay for extra tooling or development costs for the 2nd model.

I like my Grand Am. But in an alternate universe, had GM kept the Beretta around for another generation I would have bought that without any hesitation.
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Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:36 PM   #51
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every part of the country has their problems and complaints. Only lived here for 5 years and it's by far better than the north east ...and i'd never consider anywhere in the bible belt.
Yeah, us peeps in the bible belt. We some bad Mo Fos!! I don't know how I've survived here all these years. You just better do yourself a favor and stay away.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:40 PM   #52
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I highly doubt it. While it is physically possible, the two brands have been lifelong competitors. A few of their products are geared towards similar markets, so there will be a lot of consolidating and eliminating between the two companies. It will be better for Ford and GM to remain competitors.
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:46 PM   #53
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Too long of a period, but thankfully it's over
Is it over really lol? Nobody I know including my wife and myself aren't out tripping over others to buy a gm or Ford sedan. In fact the last gm sedan we owned was a 97 Grand am back in the late 90's. Since Nissan and others have stepped up, we don't even bother looking at anything else.
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