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Old 02-20-2011, 12:00 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nak3dsnake View Post
Actually, according to GM powertrain the max for the TR6060 MG9 is 600 lb/ft and the Hydra-matic 6L90 MYD is 885 lb/ft. Manual doesn't have much more wiggle room, but that auto sure does.
Whoa!! that is incorrect.. You are looking at Maximum gearbox torque, you need the Maximum Engine torque. The 6L90 is 550 lb-ft ( 746 Nm ) - for a Passenger car. the 6060 MG9 is 551 lb-ft ( 747 Nm ). I originally posted 560ft lbs but that is gearbox torque so knowing that now, the LSA has reached its maximum engine torque rating in the CTS-V at 551tq.

Maximum gear box torque is maximum torque output. This relates to automatic gearboxes only and takes into account the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter. Although there are ratings for manuals, that rating usually doesn't impact any engineering decisions. Maximum Gearbox Torque rating is guidance for people who might want to change or mod their torque converters or help engineers when the transmission is used in a varity of vehicles like a passenger car and a heavy duty truck.

If an engine providing an input torque of 551 lb-ft (1 more than the 550 torque rating) and GM wants to use the transmission in a heavy duty truck, they need to use a torque converter suited for that application. It would produce a 2:1 torque multiplication at/near stall.
the 551ft lbs the LSA produces would input x 2 becomes 1102 lb-ft which exceeds the GM Maximum Rated Gearbox Torque of 885ft lbs. This is why the Silverado cannot use the powerful LSA...

Maximum engine torque rating is input from the flywheel...

Check the PDF again
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:03 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by sixty9fordkiller View Post
Love it! The car hasn't even came out yet and already trolls from other brand enthusiasts are preaching about what it will and will not do.
Read the post above, there is a difference between a brand enthusiast "troll" and myself...
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:10 PM   #129
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Now that the torque ratings for both possible transmissions are known, how does GM tune the engine to exceed the CTS-Vs 551ft lbs when the 6M and 6A are rated at 551 and 550?
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:00 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by thePill View Post
Now that the torque ratings for both possible transmissions are known, how does GM tune the engine to exceed the CTS-Vs 551ft lbs when the 6M and 6A are rated at 551 and 550?
Pill, you may be misinterpreting the ratings, I understand it's not a rating but a validation, does not necessarily mean that it is all it can handle...a little more research may be in order...
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:06 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
Pill, you may be misinterpreting the ratings, I understand it's not a rating but a validation, does not necessarily mean that it is all it can handle...a little more research may be in order...
Look at each rating for every transmission GM uses, with the exception of the auto CTS-V, you will see that GM does not exceed the rating's on their transmissions (the auto CTS-V exceeds it by 1tq). I know that the transmissions are capable of much more... But you can't offer a warranty and then mate a transmission to an engine that exceeds its maximum rating, I would have a field day during my warranty voucher....


Edit: unless GM is over-rating their engines...
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:28 PM   #132
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What's this thing going to weigh? 4200, 4300?
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:03 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by thePill View Post
Whoa!! that is incorrect.. You are looking at Maximum gearbox torque, you need the Maximum Engine torque. The 6L90 is 550 lb-ft ( 746 Nm ) - for a Passenger car. the 6060 MG9 is 551 lb-ft ( 747 Nm ). I originally posted 560ft lbs but that is gearbox torque so knowing that now, the LSA has reached its maximum engine torque rating in the CTS-V at 551tq.

Maximum gear box torque is maximum torque output. This relates to automatic gearboxes only and takes into account the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter. Although there are ratings for manuals, that rating usually doesn't impact any engineering decisions. Maximum Gearbox Torque rating is guidance for people who might want to change or mod their torque converters or help engineers when the transmission is used in a varity of vehicles like a passenger car and a heavy duty truck.

If an engine providing an input torque of 551 lb-ft (1 more than the 550 torque rating) and GM wants to use the transmission in a heavy duty truck, they need to use a torque converter suited for that application. It would produce a 2:1 torque multiplication at/near stall.
the 551ft lbs the LSA produces would input x 2 becomes 1102 lb-ft which exceeds the GM Maximum Rated Gearbox Torque of 885ft lbs. This is why the Silverado cannot use the powerful LSA...

Maximum engine torque rating is input from the flywheel...

Check the PDF again
Ok, I just didn't know how to interpret the info I saw.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:15 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
Pill, you may be misinterpreting the ratings, I understand it's not a rating but a validation, does not necessarily mean that it is all it can handle...a little more research may be in order...
Here are the correct ratings for a passenger car for both trans.

Tremec T-6060
555 bhp
551 lb-ft

Hydra-Matic 6L90
555 bhp
550 lb-ft
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:27 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
Look at each rating for every transmission GM uses, with the exception of the auto CTS-V, you will see that GM does not exceed the rating's on their transmissions (the auto CTS-V exceeds it by 1tq). I know that the transmissions are capable of much more... But you can't offer a warranty and then mate a transmission to an engine that exceeds its maximum rating, I would have a field day during my warranty voucher....


Edit: unless GM is over-rating their engines...
Ah, but they did for the M6 V6. My Aisin AY-6 is rated at 273 lb-ft. But the engine output of the LLT is 278 lb-ft in the Camaro. Will that small amount of extra torque cause any issues?
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:49 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by nak3dsnake View Post
Ah, but they did for the M6 V6. My Aisin AY-6 is rated at 273 lb-ft. But the engine output of the LLT is 278 lb-ft in the Camaro. Will that small amount of extra torque cause any issues?
I doubt it, it seems though that automatics have a small leniency by using converters. I have also heard that, depending on where the transmissions are made, the rating system is different. It looks like foreign manufacturer's use a "max. torque capacity" which is a sustained torque rating. Those are usually companies that do not recognize "torque" as a unit of measurement but instead use Newton meter's.

It is all the same though, a Maximum engine torque rating would be measured higher where a torque capacity would be measured by force/time. One would be more "real world" like a Dynojet vs. a Mustang dyno.. just two different test...

Edit: That means, your transmission could have a maximum engine torque rating of 550, because your engine only operates at peak torque for a few milliseconds per shift. But the torque capacity would be much lower because the capacity to do so would reduce the engines life... Has anyone ever had a friend that drove home drunk in 2nd or 3rd gear? He tested his transmissions sustained torque rating...

Last edited by thePill; 02-21-2011 at 01:52 AM.
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