Next Gen Mustang Mega Thread

[cbass]

Holy crap. So the giant steel cars of yesteryear are actually lighter than our modern Camaro? That's amazing.

I know. Amazing isn't it? And those had iron blocks.

I often sit and wonder how the hell the cars got to be so heavy. I remember the v8 monte carlo was like 3300 or 3400 lbs. The car was a full size car with more room than the camaro inside and yet it weighed less.

The Camaro is still steel. Only front and rear caps are plastic, and there's a whole lot more stuff packed into them.

Even the hood and trunk? I know some cars these days are using aluminum hoods and trunks to keep weight down.

[Nessal]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

It's going to weigh 3,300 lbs? with today's safety standards?!

i'll believe that when i see it.

Why not? There are a bunch of lighter cars with these standards.

[AZCamaroFan]

yeah the hood is aluminum.


well the 3rdgens were close to 3,400 pounds, and they were pretty flimsy,and there's a whole lot more in cars now than then. i don't really know of anything in that size range that is that weight. heck the hyundai genesis coupe carries a V6 and it's over 3,400.

[nester7929]

I really think we're at the peak of engine output (at least the peak of what's safe for untrained people to drive), so really cutting weight is the best way to keep a car fast and meet fuel economy standards.

[MauriSSio]

awesome. Todays pony cars are way to big and fat.

[Russo]

id like to see it have a lower center of gravity as well

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

awesome. Todays pony cars are way to big and fat.

Kinda like some of the people that drive them.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by kbui

Composite has been looked at since the '90s. There was even an consortium of automakers (ACC) worldwide formed to study composite structures for automotive applications. The biggest problems with composites are 1) high costs and 2) do not have the ductility for energy absorption in a crash. Composite's failure modes are tricky. It's still a big battle to use composites for crashworthiness and it's not going to be easy. Combining composite with aluminum to reduce weight would be great, but keeping the costs down will be difficult. Especially for the hi performance sport/muscle cars in the ~$30K range.

They also have a habit of cracking over time from vibration or from shock. Once you have an accident, the structural integrity of the entire car is in question.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DaBears

What did i say about Materials?

Here is your proof guys.

Proof? The Z06 and ZR1 have a lot of Carbon Fiber. GM did the first CF hood on the C5 Corvette LeMans Special Edition (worked on both of those ) CF remains very cost prohibitive. It will come down with volume of course but the time to produce one part jacks the price up just in cycle time even if the cost of the materials come down (and they have recently).

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/13/f...tes-hope-to-s/

Every OEM is looking at materials to save weight.

Originally Posted by rayhawk

Carbon fiber is often cost prohibitive on an aircraft, I don't think you will ever see it in significant quantities on an entry level car.

Originally Posted by Cvega

I believe Camaros and Mustang could and should weigh around 3400 pounds. A 3400 lb Camaro SS with the 6.2 v8 would be much better on gas, much faster and quicker, it would be better handling.. It is possible.. If a Toyota Camry SE V6 weighs 3240 lbs, then a Camaro could way a bit more..

Plus keep the Camaro looking similar though

"Should" based on what? The fact that smaller 4 cylinder cars do? A Chevy Cruze weighs over 3,000 pounds.

Originally Posted by iHasCamaro

Holy crap. So the giant steel cars of yesteryear are actually lighter than our modern Camaro? That's amazing.

And imagine how light they would have been using alum. engine blocks etc.

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Not really...

Base Curb Weight ('64-'72) was for a 6-cylinder/3-speed manual/no power steering-brakes/no air/no cruise/no tilt/no radio etc. etc.

No 5mph bumpers/ABS/Stability Control/air bags/4WDB etc. etc. etc.

What now is "mandatory", by customer taste AND government regulation, is a "weighty" issue.

Keep in mind, too, the "current" Camaro is based on a version of a "current" Chevelle (i.e. mid-sized 2-dr coupe a.k.a. Holden Monaro). The Camaros of old were based on the smaller/lighter Chevy II/Nova chassis...

Yessssir

Originally Posted by kbui

Safety wasn't as big as a concern back then !

Didn't even have mandatory seat belts until 67 or 68 I think.

Originally Posted by camaro-dreamer

Hybrid could also mean eco-boost (i.e. factory turbo).

Frankly, I don't care if they change the styling for either the camaro or mustang next gen as long as my 6'4" frame can fit.

Eco boost is not a hybrid. However you can be sure Ford will use their turbo SIDI 4 cyclinder and 6 cylinders in upcomming Mustangs. BTW GM beat Ford to the punch on their own Ecoboost with the first SIDI Turbo in the Sky/Solstice. Not magic, just marketing.

Go sit in a BMW 3 series. If you can fit in that you might be ok.

Originally Posted by cbass

I know. Amazing isn't it? And those had iron blocks.

I often sit and wonder how the hell the cars got to be so heavy. I remember the v8 monte carlo was like 3300 or 3400 lbs. The car was a full size car with more room than the camaro inside and yet it weighed less.



Even the hood and trunk? I know some cars these days are using aluminum hoods and trunks to keep weight down.

Safety, emissions, and electronics.

Originally Posted by Nessal

Why not? There are a bunch of lighter cars with these standards.

And they don't have to put up with the stresses associated with 400+ HP engines or the weight of performance enhancing technologies or even simply 20" wheels. Do you know how much weight it takes just to handle the loads of the 20" wheels? A LOT.

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

They also have a habit of cracking over time from vibration or from shock. Once you have an accident, the structural integrity of the entire car is in question.

The C5 and C6 Corvettes are all composites bonded to the steel/aluminum hydroform rails. No problems at all in crashworthiness or durability. I worked on both the steel and aluminum frames and most of the parts bonded to them. No issues what so ever.



A true global car will be the size of a BMW 3 Series. The new 2012 weighs about what the article says, with the 4 cyclinder engine. An M will weigh more unless they offset the mass increase with advanced ($$$$) materials.

Global means small size for parking and driving in small urban areas (Europe and Asia) and tax restrictions on engine size (2.0, 2.5, 3.0L) engines.

So it is obviously possible and it will likely happen for CAFE reasons as well as the ability to sell cars in countries where gasoline is 8 to 10/gallon.

Also to be truly global you have to offer a diesel. Not suggesting a Mustang diesel will ever happen, but that about half the volume in Europe.

So what is the size of a BMW 3 Series coupe vs. the Mustang and vs. the Camaro?

Keeping in mind that you could go to a BMW 6 Series or Audi A5, but those are bigger, generally more expensive cars in the global market.

[cbass]

Keeping in mind that you could go to a BMW 6 Series or Audi A5, but those are bigger, generally more expensive cars in the global market.

And Heavier. The 6-series weighs from 4001 lbs for a coupe to 4608 lbs for a convertible with weights in between for different trims.

The A5 currently has a weight range from 3583 lbs to 4034 lbs, but they all have I4 engines.

For the 6-series weights of 4001-4255 lbs for a I6 and 4233-4608 for 4.4L v8's.

I think some american pick up trucks weight 4608 lbs. Talk about pigs.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

It's going to weigh 3,300 lbs? with today's safety standards?!

i'll believe that when i see it.

Originally Posted by drummer5679

if anyone hasn't noticed, new camaros, mustangs, challengers etc.. are absolutely HUGE. like they're monstrous compared to their predecessors. Cutting down on size (and therefore, weight) will improve handling, fuel economy, speed, and so much more.

This is an incredibly good trend.

Mustangs weigh in the 3,400 to 3,500 range already...cutting down 300lbs would be looking at 3,100 to 3,330 range. That is feathery light compared to what we've been used to lately...and they article states they wish to maintain current power ratings....can you say Holy Shizznit? lol

That will make for some very quick cars.

If the next gen Camaro ends up on Alpha, we are still looking at the base to SS models randing from 3,400 to 3,600 lbs. Thats a very nice improvement, but will be compared to the Mustang if Ford does indeed keep current power in such a light car. (and then they will be calling us fat pigs once again lol)

I don't think anyone wants to see a very small Mustang or Camaro, but going slightly smaller than current models is completely fine by me. But I certainly don't want to be driving something the size of an Eclipse either.

Lighter weight will mean better feel, better handing, less power needed to be really fast, and better MPGs. It is a win all the way around.

Have you guys read about the new Nissan Altima?? Its a refined 4 door car that weighs 3,100 or so lbs.

Quoted from MotorTrend: "Extensive use of ultra-high-strength steel means the body structure -- already among the featheriest in the segment -- weighs in 79 pounds lighter (roughly 3100-3200 pounds depending on configuration) and is 30-percent more rigid."

GM is also looking into making use of ultra-high-strenth steel from what I've read. Now if Nissan can make a comfy car of that size and comfort weigh only 3,100 lbs, we should certainly have Mustangs and Camaros weighing in around that as well.

[KMPrenger]

As for the design..I'd expect something new and modern, but you know its going to have some of the classic Mustang ques....it has to.

Going global is not a surprise really. I think thats been the rumor now for a very long time.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

Kinda like some of the people that drive them.

LOL so true. A lot of overweight people out there. Pony cars should be closer to compact size.

[camaro-dreamer]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Eco boost is not a hybrid. However you can be sure Ford will use their turbo SIDI 4 cyclinder and 6 cylinders in upcomming Mustangs. BTW GM beat Ford to the punch on their own Ecoboost with the first SIDI Turbo in the Sky/Solstice. Not magic, just marketing.

Go sit in a BMW 3 series. If you can fit in that you might be ok.

I thought GM did a great job with the solstice gxp from what I read. I was simply too tall to be comfortable. BMW has also been doing this for a long time. Of course, BMW has had a lot of reliability issues with turbo applications. I think it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years with more and more manufacturers turning to turbo for fuel economy advantages. Also, thanks for the insight on the 3 series. I should be okay.